Discussion
Am I the only one who thinks Webber was 99% at fault there? Personally I think Webber should be under investigation for taking out Heikki like that.
I mean, I've seen plenty of Races where for example everyone is stuck behind Trulli but I don't hear the commentators then saying that Trulli should move and let faster cars past. After all, a fight for position is a fight for position, it's not a charity race.......
Thought I'd start this in a new thread instead of clogging up the other one.
I mean, I've seen plenty of Races where for example everyone is stuck behind Trulli but I don't hear the commentators then saying that Trulli should move and let faster cars past. After all, a fight for position is a fight for position, it's not a charity race.......
Thought I'd start this in a new thread instead of clogging up the other one.
Webber says he was surpised at how early Kovi had to brake for the corner. Quite why it was a surprise to him that a slower car was slower is a mystery to me.
Kovi left a car sized gap to his right (which would have been the inside line for the upcoming corner) but Webber still decided to jink left and then drive up the back of the green car.
Expensive afternoon for both teams.
Kovi left a car sized gap to his right (which would have been the inside line for the upcoming corner) but Webber still decided to jink left and then drive up the back of the green car.
Expensive afternoon for both teams.
IMO Webber shouldn't have followed that close; that car clearly would have to brake much earlier than Mark yet he insisted on being a van man, if it was me I'd have stayed well away. Though Heikki getting twitchy was odd...
Either way at least Mark got out fine! Also it's not the first time a Newey car has done that...
Either way at least Mark got out fine! Also it's not the first time a Newey car has done that...
My take was that firstly KOV wasn't going to easily cede the place - it was for track position. By the same token he know's it's inevitable at some stage. I think he made a half hearted attempt to defend and expected WEB to come through, anticipating WEB doing it and so slowing a fraction early.
Meanwhile, WEB has followed as the Lotus seems to weave but is actually on the racing line - WEB perhaps looking for KOV to cede position and so waits for a chance and waits for what he thinks is KOVs last move, I think he then has a moments hesitation about going left or right and as he's choosing right KOV is already trying to let him go.
Unfortunate for both, lucky for both, anticipation for KOV, hesitation for WEB.
Meanwhile, WEB has followed as the Lotus seems to weave but is actually on the racing line - WEB perhaps looking for KOV to cede position and so waits for a chance and waits for what he thinks is KOVs last move, I think he then has a moments hesitation about going left or right and as he's choosing right KOV is already trying to let him go.
Unfortunate for both, lucky for both, anticipation for KOV, hesitation for WEB.
It was for position.
The Lotus was (had to be) earlier on the brakes.
Webber looked to be trying to grab a last bit of tow of the Lotus (it was fast in a straight line).
Heikki moved left and started to brake, Webber was too close (getting the tow) and wasn't ready for it, and simply ran up the Lotus' chuff.
The rest is history.
Racing incident. End of.
Webber should study the incident and learn from it. There are still a lot of races to go this season.
The Lotus was (had to be) earlier on the brakes.
Webber looked to be trying to grab a last bit of tow of the Lotus (it was fast in a straight line).
Heikki moved left and started to brake, Webber was too close (getting the tow) and wasn't ready for it, and simply ran up the Lotus' chuff.
The rest is history.
Racing incident. End of.
Webber should study the incident and learn from it. There are still a lot of races to go this season.
I'd say Weber to blame also.
1) He knows the Lotus (and other "Class B" cars as they call them) do brake earlier, so he should have been aware that Heiki would have slowed sooner.
2) He was following.
3) It was for position.
4) He was trying to get as much tow as possible when it wasn't necessary.
They excuses about Heiki moving, he did not make any sweres or "moves" across the circuit to block, if he did then Weber would have been going the other way to pass surely?
It was a bad call by Weber but at least he walked away.
Top job on taking down the advertising marker some 20ft above the track though!
1) He knows the Lotus (and other "Class B" cars as they call them) do brake earlier, so he should have been aware that Heiki would have slowed sooner.
2) He was following.
3) It was for position.
4) He was trying to get as much tow as possible when it wasn't necessary.
They excuses about Heiki moving, he did not make any sweres or "moves" across the circuit to block, if he did then Weber would have been going the other way to pass surely?
It was a bad call by Weber but at least he walked away.
Top job on taking down the advertising marker some 20ft above the track though!
It depends what your mean by 'blame'. If I was the team manager I would have felt that Kov should have kept Webber behind him as long as possible to get the air time for sponsors. So far so good. But the he should have gone for a finish. In that sense, bad. He should have let Webber through when his position became undefendable.
Webber? Well, from his team's point of view, from a personal point of view and from a regulatory point of view, he dropped a big one.
From a regulatory panel's point of view, a racing incident.
I've got to say that I thought Kov braked early for the corner. I assumed he was hoping that Webber, by being forced into a tight line, would be slow out of the corner and he'd have a chance of overtaking out of it. Or, and this is a possbility, he was hoping that by braking early Webber would have to lift off and so forfeit the corner.
It's done often enough.
Webber? Well, from his team's point of view, from a personal point of view and from a regulatory point of view, he dropped a big one.
From a regulatory panel's point of view, a racing incident.
I've got to say that I thought Kov braked early for the corner. I assumed he was hoping that Webber, by being forced into a tight line, would be slow out of the corner and he'd have a chance of overtaking out of it. Or, and this is a possbility, he was hoping that by braking early Webber would have to lift off and so forfeit the corner.
It's done often enough.
plg said:
Happy Harvick said:
Either way at least Mark got out fine! Also it's not the first time a Newey car has done that...
Nothing to do with being a Newey car. Absolutely nothing. Any car would have done the same in that accident.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laHD0uyc07o
Derek Smith said:
It depends what your mean by 'blame'. If I was the team manager I would have felt that Kov should have kept Webber behind him as long as possible to get the air time for sponsors. So far so good. But the he should have gone for a finish. In that sense, bad. He should have let Webber through when his position became undefendable.
That's where we disagree. I think in essence Heikki had moved across to the racing line to begin his braking into the corner and there was enough room on the right hand side for Webber to go past - instead Webber followed him to get more of a tow - yet why on earth did he need to do that when he has 4 seconds a lap on Heikki? 
There was a huge amount of room for Webber to pass. He tried to take the tow and got it wrong. According to Webber the point at which Heikki hit the brakes and sent him skyward was 80 meters before Webbers braking point on the previous lap - thats one hell of a difference.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
team underdog said:
According to Webber the point at which Heikki hit the brakes and sent him skyward was 80 meters before Webbers braking point on the previous lap - thats one hell of a difference.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
Are we supposed to believe that Webber keeps tabs on where his competitors brake?http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
That's two weekends in a row that Red Bull drivers have got one of the clearest rules wrong: it's up to the overtaking car to overtake safely.
team underdog said:
According to Webber the point at which Heikki hit the brakes and sent him skyward was 80 meters before Webbers braking point on the previous lap - thats one hell of a difference.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
Well, does he at any point wonder if that could in any way be related to why he is 4 seconds a lap faster? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula...
So is that not something he might want to think about before trying to get a tow of a "backmarker"?
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff