Red Bull Can't Race
Discussion
Just take a look at the farce happening over at Red Bull.
An aerodynamic genius has drawn a beautifully adept racing car.
A well presented and financed team are racing it.
A good team principle.
Now week in week out they put the car at the very front, but don't win the race?
I've asked myself why, and sorry guys, its the drivers.
One lap aussie --copyright hypnotoad---is just abbout right.
Vettel, what on earth was that start last weekend, or wiping out your team mate ?
The only comparison I can offer is with Damon Hill. There was an excellent driver, who just couldn't race.
If they want to win the WDC they'll need to employ a driver who can race.
An aerodynamic genius has drawn a beautifully adept racing car.
A well presented and financed team are racing it.
A good team principle.
Now week in week out they put the car at the very front, but don't win the race?
I've asked myself why, and sorry guys, its the drivers.
One lap aussie --copyright hypnotoad---is just abbout right.
Vettel, what on earth was that start last weekend, or wiping out your team mate ?
The only comparison I can offer is with Damon Hill. There was an excellent driver, who just couldn't race.
If they want to win the WDC they'll need to employ a driver who can race.
Edited by stuttgartmetal on Wednesday 28th July 12:07
There are some great posts online from ex Ferrari fans, who after sunday, now prefer to support Red Bull because team harmony is better lol.
It's all Alonso's fault.
Seriously, am I the only one who heard the obsessed pit radio message to Vettel after Q3? Then Vettel trying to spoil Alonso's start, not giving two figs about Massa (he wasnt the only one). Horner's face and tone when he found out ferrari had swapped felipe for Alonso.
Actually Ive changed my mind. Its all Lewis Hamiltons fault!
What with Lewis apparently still getting to Alonso, and now Alonso gets to Vettel, the chain of events are obvious
Personally I would install webber as N01 and I think he could just win the WDC if Red Bull come back with the right package . Besisdes, Hill did win it in the end with a flawless drive under pressure, despite Berger's near intervention.
It's all Alonso's fault.
Seriously, am I the only one who heard the obsessed pit radio message to Vettel after Q3? Then Vettel trying to spoil Alonso's start, not giving two figs about Massa (he wasnt the only one). Horner's face and tone when he found out ferrari had swapped felipe for Alonso.
Actually Ive changed my mind. Its all Lewis Hamiltons fault!
What with Lewis apparently still getting to Alonso, and now Alonso gets to Vettel, the chain of events are obvious
Personally I would install webber as N01 and I think he could just win the WDC if Red Bull come back with the right package . Besisdes, Hill did win it in the end with a flawless drive under pressure, despite Berger's near intervention.
Edited by oilspill on Wednesday 28th July 12:33
oilspill said:
Personally I would install webber as N01 and I think he could just win the WDC if Red Bull come back with the right package.
Do you think Webber is a better racer then Vettel? Seb has been quite hot headed at times in the first parts of the race, but I think this is maybe just a slight glitch and something which can be easily remediedWebber has impressed with the way he has led from the front, particularly under safety cars (was it Monaco that he stormed ahead??). I also like his general demeanour, and his attitude to his fellow racers.
Ive had him down as more likely to take the WDC than Seb this season...
I'd like to see Webber with a title too if JB or LH don't get it. Still think Vettel will end up with it thoughI think that vettel is the classic very fast driver ina good car, rather than a born champion able to nurse a car or drive the percentages.
His lack of luck in the mechanical aspects of his race are just too frequent to be anything but partly his fault.
As for Webber. again I don't think he's a born champion as he makes the sorts of mistakes he made at Melbourne but his experience shows he knows when to drive the car to its limits and when to back off.
His lack of luck in the mechanical aspects of his race are just too frequent to be anything but partly his fault.
As for Webber. again I don't think he's a born champion as he makes the sorts of mistakes he made at Melbourne but his experience shows he knows when to drive the car to its limits and when to back off.
stuttgartmetal said:
Just take a look at the farce happening over at Red Bull.
An aerodynamic genius has drawn a beautifully adept racing car.
A well presented and financed team are racing it.
A good team principle.
Now week in week out they put the car at the very front, but don't win the race?
Not sure which season you're talking about but this year so far they've won 5 races and had one or both on the podium for 8 of the races.An aerodynamic genius has drawn a beautifully adept racing car.
A well presented and financed team are racing it.
A good team principle.
Now week in week out they put the car at the very front, but don't win the race?
They're 3rd and 4th in the drivers on identical points a mere whiff away from the Mclarens and again in the Constructors 2nd to the Mclarens with only a few points separating them.
To suggest they fall apart on race day isn't the true picture. I'd suggest their race form is pretty well top notch with Vettel proving to be extremely good a pulling out a fast one lap time for quali.
Gaz. said:
snorkel sucker said:
Do you think Webber is a better racer then Vettel?
Just a bit.Vettel is excellent against a stop watch but Silverstone aside (when he had a huge car advantage and was no-where before the safety car), have you ever seen him really perform?
If you were to draw up a list of his inspirational GP's, it would be a short list imo. Kubica out-drives his car almost every weekend this season and is the polar opposite of Vettel. If they swapped seats, Kubica would be well on his way wrapping up the WDC, Vettel would be mincing about in the lower-mid field with Petrov.
Webber is infinitely more complete than Sebastien, he doesn;t have the absolute raw speed of his team mate but he has race craft in spades.
Neither are cut from the same cloth as Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton or Kubica but Webber is the stronger of the Red Bull drivers.
Maybe ive been blind to it, but a lot of people have been talking about Vettel for a couple of years now regarding his potential as the next Schumacher. I like him, he has talent, but, for me, he has never really set the grid on fire. Sure, he has had some bad luck, and, sure, we all make mistakes, but he really shouldnt have messed up his start like he did at Silverstone and Hockenheim; once is a mistake. Twice is careless.
Webber has grit and raw, stubborn Aussie determination; I like that, and its often part of the make up of what makes a great driver. As you say though, neither can be put in the same category of those you list.
One you didnt note, but is worth a mention, is Rosberg. Out pacing his teammate all season, and often putting the merc into a finishing position more worthy of the car, he is a future WDC. He isnt Ferrari material, and McLaren have got Lewis and Jenson now, but if Brawn does his thing with the silver arrow, watch Rosberg go next year....
Edited by snorkel sucker on Wednesday 28th July 17:18
Whalespin said:
Im a Vettel fan, so am obviously going to stick up for him! But surely his final season in Toro Rosso counts for something, collecting 35 points and the teams maiden win, where his team mate could only finish in the points twice.
it does count for something - it is part of the grooming process he's been going through with the RB driver development programme.But...
he does not seem to be developing into the complete driver, particularly when you compare him to Hamilton. Vettel seems incapable of admitting that, for instance, the Turkey incident was largely his fault: which means he will make the same mistakes again.
Certainly he is quick on a saturday, but not delivering on sunday. He only seemed to get 'interested' at Silverstone once the safety car had closed things up and he had a better chance of getting reasonable points.
Gaz. said:
snorkel sucker said:
Do you think Webber is a better racer then Vettel?
Just a bit.Vettel is excellent against a stop watch but Silverstone aside (when he had a huge car advantage and was no-where before the safety car), have you ever seen him really perform?
If you were to draw up a list of his inspirational GP's, it would be a short list imo. Kubica out-drives his car almost every weekend this season and is the polar opposite of Vettel. If they swapped seats, Kubica would be well on his way wrapping up the WDC,
Webber is infinitely more complete than Sebastien, he doesn;t have the absolute raw speed of his team mate but he has race craft in spades.
Neither are cut from the same cloth as Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton or Kubica but Webber is the stronger of the Red Bull drivers.
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