Williams F1 - will they ever be great again?
Discussion
Do you think Williams will ever be able to get back into the big time and win races and even championships, or do you think that they are destined to be middle-runners and slowly fade away?
Personally, I would like to see them back up at the front, but I don't see it happening any time soon
Personally, I would like to see them back up at the front, but I don't see it happening any time soon
As someone who has supported them since watching Jones in 1980 I would like to see this but I don't see it while Frank is still around. He is, for better or worse, determined to stay independent and I'm not convinced it's the way to succeed in today's F1.
I would love to know what would have happened if he'd done the deal that BMW wanted.
I would love to know what would have happened if he'd done the deal that BMW wanted.
stemll said:
As someone who has supported them since watching Jones in 1980 I would like to see this but I don't see it while Frank is still around. He is, for better or worse, determined to stay independent and I'm not convinced it's the way to succeed in today's F1.
I would love to know what would have happened if he'd done the deal that BMW wanted.
Well given what happened to the BMW team in the end maybe Frank made the right call?I would love to know what would have happened if he'd done the deal that BMW wanted.
McLaren and Red Bull Racing both seem to be doing ok and neither of those is a manufacturer works team.
IMO all Williams really need is an inspired Newey-esque design and they will be right back at the front. I know they don't have a massive budget along the same line as Ferrari et al but they have a reasonable amount (bearing in mind title sponsorship from AT&T must be worth a few bob) and if they can start a season with an obviously fast car then they should be able to fund developments to keep it there.
neither is Sam the problem.
Williams struggle due to a number of things
- lack of testing - they've always done a lot of it, and have been first to market with many things, even in recent times (e.g. double diffuser)
- engine changes - they were compromised this year by having to make a late change to a Cosworth engine, when the 2010 chassis had been developed around the toyota lump. This required them to focus on solving installation issues, rather than developing planned improvements (like blown diffuser).
- drivers - for a long time Williams have lacked an experienced driver, who is able to identify quickly identify areas for improvements. NicoR is a great driver, but would focus on the telementry and data to try to see why he was slow, where as Rubens seems to have a knack for knowing and being able to explain what the problem is, and is feeding that back to the designers.
I think they're back on course now, and will be very strong in 2011.
Williams struggle due to a number of things
- lack of testing - they've always done a lot of it, and have been first to market with many things, even in recent times (e.g. double diffuser)
- engine changes - they were compromised this year by having to make a late change to a Cosworth engine, when the 2010 chassis had been developed around the toyota lump. This required them to focus on solving installation issues, rather than developing planned improvements (like blown diffuser).
- drivers - for a long time Williams have lacked an experienced driver, who is able to identify quickly identify areas for improvements. NicoR is a great driver, but would focus on the telementry and data to try to see why he was slow, where as Rubens seems to have a knack for knowing and being able to explain what the problem is, and is feeding that back to the designers.
I think they're back on course now, and will be very strong in 2011.
What are people's thoughts on them ever dropping out of F1?
I know Frank has moved some considerable day-to-day stuff over recently and is perhaps looking at retiring. Once/if he ever steps down would Williams still stick around?
Having recently been shown some pictures of a tour around their museum, it is a real reminder of what amazing glory days they had and it is sad to think it has been a long, long time since they were realistic contenders at the front of the grid.
I know Frank has moved some considerable day-to-day stuff over recently and is perhaps looking at retiring. Once/if he ever steps down would Williams still stick around?
Having recently been shown some pictures of a tour around their museum, it is a real reminder of what amazing glory days they had and it is sad to think it has been a long, long time since they were realistic contenders at the front of the grid.
Hopefully they will pull thru, but it is such a fash moving game any thing is possible.
The engine they have with the Cosworth unit, is so far this season the most reliable. Hopefully it will continue to perform thru the 2nd half of the year and we might see the 8engines per driver rule come into effect and help Williams and hamper Ferarri.
Aero wise, they were slow at the start of the season and the car refussed to corner, but don't forget they managed to get the blown rear defuser working very quickly with no major problems unlike some of the top teams. Finally another double points finish last weekend, they are getting there package together slowly.
Yeah, Newey is an engineering genius and great at extracting the most out of the rules, but if everybody has an AN chassis it would be equal again and even more boring?
Lets not forget, the drivers and team members working together make the final package win or lose; and NH has a great teacher in RB.
The engine they have with the Cosworth unit, is so far this season the most reliable. Hopefully it will continue to perform thru the 2nd half of the year and we might see the 8engines per driver rule come into effect and help Williams and hamper Ferarri.
Aero wise, they were slow at the start of the season and the car refussed to corner, but don't forget they managed to get the blown rear defuser working very quickly with no major problems unlike some of the top teams. Finally another double points finish last weekend, they are getting there package together slowly.
Yeah, Newey is an engineering genius and great at extracting the most out of the rules, but if everybody has an AN chassis it would be equal again and even more boring?
Lets not forget, the drivers and team members working together make the final package win or lose; and NH has a great teacher in RB.
Williams have one huge problem....no money and no large supply of engines. At the end of 2010 their car will be unfunded and their business development team are not in the top six of F1. They have a good factory but the moneymen cannot deliver nor close a compelling pitch. They are also not paying agents enough to bring them in tier two investors. Maybe the Austrian / Luxembourg based shareholder may help but from a commercial point of view they are alongside HRT and Virgin.
cpufreak said:
neither is Sam the problem.
Williams struggle due to a number of things
- lack of testing - they've always done a lot of it, and have been first to market with many things, even in recent times (e.g. double diffuser)
- engine changes - they were compromised this year by having to make a late change to a Cosworth engine, when the 2010 chassis had been developed around the toyota lump. This required them to focus on solving installation issues, rather than developing planned improvements (like blown diffuser).
- drivers - for a long time Williams have lacked an experienced driver, who is able to identify quickly identify areas for improvements. NicoR is a great driver, but would focus on the telementry and data to try to see why he was slow, where as Rubens seems to have a knack for knowing and being able to explain what the problem is, and is feeding that back to the designers.
I think they're back on course now, and will be very strong in 2011.
I think your last point really nails it. They've not had anyone who's good at doing car development for a while, whereas RB excels at that aspect. If he hangs around for another year or two I think they might do quite well.Williams struggle due to a number of things
- lack of testing - they've always done a lot of it, and have been first to market with many things, even in recent times (e.g. double diffuser)
- engine changes - they were compromised this year by having to make a late change to a Cosworth engine, when the 2010 chassis had been developed around the toyota lump. This required them to focus on solving installation issues, rather than developing planned improvements (like blown diffuser).
- drivers - for a long time Williams have lacked an experienced driver, who is able to identify quickly identify areas for improvements. NicoR is a great driver, but would focus on the telementry and data to try to see why he was slow, where as Rubens seems to have a knack for knowing and being able to explain what the problem is, and is feeding that back to the designers.
I think they're back on course now, and will be very strong in 2011.
When Williams got rid of Damon Hill, Williams went down hill too. I believe Adrian Newey left as a consequence of Damon Hill's departure... The dominance of the team fell by the wayside slowly from that point on.
All rather sad at the time with regards to Damon Hill, but Williams made the call and they have had to live with those decisions.
Damon Hill's departure as World Champion, showed to anybody with any sense, the ruthlessness of the Williams team...
All rather sad at the time with regards to Damon Hill, but Williams made the call and they have had to live with those decisions.
Damon Hill's departure as World Champion, showed to anybody with any sense, the ruthlessness of the Williams team...
Fortitude said:
When Williams got rid of Damon Hill, Williams went down hill too. I believe Adrian Newey left as a consequence of Damon Hill's departure... The dominance of the team fell by the wayside slowly from that point on.
All rather sad at the time with regards to Damon Hill, but Williams made the call and they have had to live with those decisions.
Damon Hill's departure as World Champion, showed to anybody with any sense, the ruthlessness of the Williams team...
And preceeded by Mansell & Prost doing the same...All rather sad at the time with regards to Damon Hill, but Williams made the call and they have had to live with those decisions.
Damon Hill's departure as World Champion, showed to anybody with any sense, the ruthlessness of the Williams team...
Fortitude said:
When Williams got rid of Damon Hill, Williams went down hill too. I believe Adrian Newey left as a consequence of Damon Hill's departure... The dominance of the team fell by the wayside slowly from that point on.
All rather sad at the time with regards to Damon Hill, but Williams made the call and they have had to live with those decisions.
Damon Hill's departure as World Champion, showed to anybody with any sense, the ruthlessness of the Williams team...
Newey left as he wanted more control within the team and, Frank being Frank, this was never going to happen. I have supported WGP for 20 years and, sad to say, when RBS, Philips and AT&T leave at the end of the season I fear the writing is on the wall.All rather sad at the time with regards to Damon Hill, but Williams made the call and they have had to live with those decisions.
Damon Hill's departure as World Champion, showed to anybody with any sense, the ruthlessness of the Williams team...
PS Am I alone in thinking the FW11B is the best looking GP car of all time?
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