Ecclestone interview - Guardian
Discussion
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/oct/19/bernie...
His comments about Spa are interesting. Apparently "it's only good for the people who race."
Surely good racing means that it is good for the people who watch on TV as well? Or is he still more interested in an expensive hospitality complex?
His comments about Spa are interesting. Apparently "it's only good for the people who race."
Surely good racing means that it is good for the people who watch on TV as well? Or is he still more interested in an expensive hospitality complex?
Bernie was well known in the east end of London, becoming something of a mover and shaker in the tumultuous time after the demise of the Krays. He left for some reason, pulled out and disappeared around 1963/64. There was, evidently (before my time in the police, and by some distance) a rumour to the extent that he'd been topped. An old DI once said, this when Bernie was running Brabham, that the main suspects were all in CID.
A brief overview: There were two major factions trying for supremacy post Krays/Richardsons, the car dealers and the clubbers. They didn't have membership cards so the differentiation was rather broad but the classification still existed even in my time, the middle/late 70s. The CDs moved into the big robberies. Some suggest the great train robbery was one of theirs as well as an even bigger job in 71/72. Then there were others. There was a lot of inter-speciality rivalry so to speak and people disappeared, or appeared considerably the worse for wear, sometime in the river.
Some clubs were picked on by the car dealers for trashing just because it was easy to do and not because they were 'involved'. The same went in reverse and there was, evidently, something of a protection racket. If you wanted to run a car dealership in Essex then some of the profit was already marked.
There was a suggestion of a powerful and well protected Mr Big financing all the big robberies and perhaps that's why Bernie moved away. Too dangerous. Whatever he did in his sabbatical it must have been very productive as he reappeared with quite a wad.
It was not believed, by those who policed the east end at that time, that Bernie was a very nice man. That said there was a certain admiration for the man as it seems everyone felt he was a cut above the normal car dealers.
This was, of course, before his eulogy for Hitler, Ozzy Mosley (being too clever was never the perceived problem with Mossy), torture and Saddam Hussein sort of confirmed it.
He's always struck me as the type of person often described over here as a chancer and in the USA as a carpet-bagger. He has no interest in the sport apart from the desire to run it and rake in money. He had the ability to be one of the great team managers and if he'd stuck with Brabham then I have no doubt that it would have exceeded Ferrari in WMCs by now. And I have the feeling he’d have been a happier man as well.
His cars were stunning. Well prepared, good looking and very, very fast. I was a big fan. I remember gasping the first time I saw the BT55. And probably the second as well.
It’s as well he was working class. Had he been in Spanky’s position he’d have been extremely dangerous.
He seems to be putting his head above the parapet a lot recently. This might be because of his divorce but it might also be concern about the 2013 Concord Agreement. This is the big one. If it goes against him then it could cost.
I’ve got a feeling that Todt is an entirely different kettle of fish to Spanky. Bernie dominated Max for some years, and merely for being so much sharper and clever and it wasn’t until Spanky wanted to make the occasional decision for himself that things began to fall apart. If I had to put money on who tipped off the NotW I know who I’d pick – the person who was likely to lose the most money if Spanky continued in self- and F1-destruct mode.
We will know which way F1 will go some time before 2013 of course. But I have to admit to being worried as to F1’s future.
One small point: the writer of the article says: . . . moving into countries with no previous tradition of racing.
What is ‘previous’ tradition?
A brief overview: There were two major factions trying for supremacy post Krays/Richardsons, the car dealers and the clubbers. They didn't have membership cards so the differentiation was rather broad but the classification still existed even in my time, the middle/late 70s. The CDs moved into the big robberies. Some suggest the great train robbery was one of theirs as well as an even bigger job in 71/72. Then there were others. There was a lot of inter-speciality rivalry so to speak and people disappeared, or appeared considerably the worse for wear, sometime in the river.
Some clubs were picked on by the car dealers for trashing just because it was easy to do and not because they were 'involved'. The same went in reverse and there was, evidently, something of a protection racket. If you wanted to run a car dealership in Essex then some of the profit was already marked.
There was a suggestion of a powerful and well protected Mr Big financing all the big robberies and perhaps that's why Bernie moved away. Too dangerous. Whatever he did in his sabbatical it must have been very productive as he reappeared with quite a wad.
It was not believed, by those who policed the east end at that time, that Bernie was a very nice man. That said there was a certain admiration for the man as it seems everyone felt he was a cut above the normal car dealers.
This was, of course, before his eulogy for Hitler, Ozzy Mosley (being too clever was never the perceived problem with Mossy), torture and Saddam Hussein sort of confirmed it.
He's always struck me as the type of person often described over here as a chancer and in the USA as a carpet-bagger. He has no interest in the sport apart from the desire to run it and rake in money. He had the ability to be one of the great team managers and if he'd stuck with Brabham then I have no doubt that it would have exceeded Ferrari in WMCs by now. And I have the feeling he’d have been a happier man as well.
His cars were stunning. Well prepared, good looking and very, very fast. I was a big fan. I remember gasping the first time I saw the BT55. And probably the second as well.
It’s as well he was working class. Had he been in Spanky’s position he’d have been extremely dangerous.
He seems to be putting his head above the parapet a lot recently. This might be because of his divorce but it might also be concern about the 2013 Concord Agreement. This is the big one. If it goes against him then it could cost.
I’ve got a feeling that Todt is an entirely different kettle of fish to Spanky. Bernie dominated Max for some years, and merely for being so much sharper and clever and it wasn’t until Spanky wanted to make the occasional decision for himself that things began to fall apart. If I had to put money on who tipped off the NotW I know who I’d pick – the person who was likely to lose the most money if Spanky continued in self- and F1-destruct mode.
We will know which way F1 will go some time before 2013 of course. But I have to admit to being worried as to F1’s future.
One small point: the writer of the article says: . . . moving into countries with no previous tradition of racing.
What is ‘previous’ tradition?
Edited by Derek Smith on Tuesday 19th October 10:51
Rouleur said:
It's an example of poor journalism.
Indeed it is. The author clearly has no real idea of the background of F1 or Bernie. The briefest of briefings comes to mind.The subtle jibes are made at Bernies height, or his image, not at his beliefs or opinions, which are where they should be made.
It seems astonishing to me that an alleged hour spent in the company of BCE, only inspired that article.
I shouldn't have set my expectations too high, it's from The Guardian.
Poor journalism or not:
"Absolutely. If it [Spa] wasn't supported by the government over there it probably would go because they wouldn't be able to afford it. It's the same with the British grand prix. The worst thing is that the government here have wasted a fortune on the Olympics which will come and go, and be forgotten in a few weeks, when they could have supported Silverstone and made sure the British grand prix is there forever. The only good thing about the Olympics is the opening and closing ceremony. They do a lovely showbiz job. Otherwise, it's complete nonsense."
The bolded bit typifies an attitude that is crippling sport and (forgive the hyperbole) broader life in general, the commercialisation of everything at the expense of quality. In my eyes there are broad similarities between what Simon Cowell is doing with X factor and Bernie Ecclestone has/is doing with F1; the event is becoming more important than action and the results. It's a product to him, no more, no less.
People who watch the Olympics care about the sport, I daresay the vast majority would not be bothered one iota if there were no ceremonies, much less any "showbiz". Do the Olympics cost too much? Yes, IME, but that's not the issue.
I appreciate commercial activity is a necessary, and often productive, element of sports competition and that it also has an input into sports development however the current situations where the commercial arms are overriding the interests of the paying public just isn't sustainable.
Will I continue to watch F1? Of course... Do I think it's headed down the wrong path? Yes, and I regret the passing of the breakaway series that was planned, whether it were to have been successful or not.
"Absolutely. If it [Spa] wasn't supported by the government over there it probably would go because they wouldn't be able to afford it. It's the same with the British grand prix. The worst thing is that the government here have wasted a fortune on the Olympics which will come and go, and be forgotten in a few weeks, when they could have supported Silverstone and made sure the British grand prix is there forever. The only good thing about the Olympics is the opening and closing ceremony. They do a lovely showbiz job. Otherwise, it's complete nonsense."
The bolded bit typifies an attitude that is crippling sport and (forgive the hyperbole) broader life in general, the commercialisation of everything at the expense of quality. In my eyes there are broad similarities between what Simon Cowell is doing with X factor and Bernie Ecclestone has/is doing with F1; the event is becoming more important than action and the results. It's a product to him, no more, no less.
People who watch the Olympics care about the sport, I daresay the vast majority would not be bothered one iota if there were no ceremonies, much less any "showbiz". Do the Olympics cost too much? Yes, IME, but that's not the issue.
I appreciate commercial activity is a necessary, and often productive, element of sports competition and that it also has an input into sports development however the current situations where the commercial arms are overriding the interests of the paying public just isn't sustainable.
Will I continue to watch F1? Of course... Do I think it's headed down the wrong path? Yes, and I regret the passing of the breakaway series that was planned, whether it were to have been successful or not.
Edited by DrTre on Tuesday 19th October 13:16
Derek Smith said:
Bernie was well known in the east end of London, becoming something of a mover and shaker in the tumultuous time after the demise of the Krays. He left for some reason, pulled out and disappeared around 1963/64. There was, evidently (before my time in the police, and by some distance) a rumour to the extent that he'd been topped. An old DI once said, this when Bernie was running Brabham, that the main suspects were all in CID.
A brief overview: There were two major factions trying for supremacy post Krays/Richardsons, the car dealers and the clubbers. They didn't have membership cards so the differentiation was rather broad but the classification still existed even in my time, the middle/late 70s. The CDs moved into the big robberies. Some suggest the great train robbery was one of theirs as well as an even bigger job in 71/72. Then there were others. There was a lot of inter-speciality rivalry so to speak and people disappeared, or appeared considerably the worse for wear, sometime in the river.
Some clubs were picked on by the car dealers for trashing just because it was easy to do and not because they were 'involved'. The same went in reverse and there was, evidently, something of a protection racket. If you wanted to run a car dealership in Essex then some of the profit was already marked.
There was a suggestion of a powerful and well protected Mr Big financing all the big robberies and perhaps that's why Bernie moved away. Too dangerous. Whatever he did in his sabbatical it must have been very productive as he reappeared with quite a wad.
It was not believed, by those who policed the east end at that time, that Bernie was a very nice man. That said there was a certain admiration for the man as it seems everyone felt he was a cut above the normal car dealers.
This was, of course, before his eulogy for Hitler, Ozzy Mosley (being too clever was never the perceived problem with Mossy), torture and Saddam Hussein sort of confirmed it.
He's always struck me as the type of person often described over here as a chancer and in the USA as a carpet-bagger. He has no interest in the sport apart from the desire to run it and rake in money. He had the ability to be one of the great team managers and if he'd stuck with Brabham then I have no doubt that it would have exceeded Ferrari in WMCs by now. And I have the feeling he’d have been a happier man as well.
His cars were stunning. Well prepared, good looking and very, very fast. I was a big fan. I remember gasping the first time I saw the BT55. And probably the second as well.
It’s as well he was working class. Had he been in Spanky’s position he’d have been extremely dangerous.
He seems to be putting his head above the parapet a lot recently. This might be because of his divorce but it might also be concern about the 2013 Concord Agreement. This is the big one. If it goes against him then it could cost.
I’ve got a feeling that Todt is an entirely different kettle of fish to Spanky. Bernie dominated Max for some years, and merely for being so much sharper and clever and it wasn’t until Spanky wanted to make the occasional decision for himself that things began to fall apart. If I had to put money on who tipped off the NotW I know who I’d pick – the person who was likely to lose the most money if Spanky continued in self- and F1-destruct mode.
We will know which way F1 will go some time before 2013 of course. But I have to admit to being worried as to F1’s future.
One small point: the writer of the article says: . . . moving into countries with no previous tradition of racing.
What is ‘previous’ tradition?
I read all that DS and have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.A brief overview: There were two major factions trying for supremacy post Krays/Richardsons, the car dealers and the clubbers. They didn't have membership cards so the differentiation was rather broad but the classification still existed even in my time, the middle/late 70s. The CDs moved into the big robberies. Some suggest the great train robbery was one of theirs as well as an even bigger job in 71/72. Then there were others. There was a lot of inter-speciality rivalry so to speak and people disappeared, or appeared considerably the worse for wear, sometime in the river.
Some clubs were picked on by the car dealers for trashing just because it was easy to do and not because they were 'involved'. The same went in reverse and there was, evidently, something of a protection racket. If you wanted to run a car dealership in Essex then some of the profit was already marked.
There was a suggestion of a powerful and well protected Mr Big financing all the big robberies and perhaps that's why Bernie moved away. Too dangerous. Whatever he did in his sabbatical it must have been very productive as he reappeared with quite a wad.
It was not believed, by those who policed the east end at that time, that Bernie was a very nice man. That said there was a certain admiration for the man as it seems everyone felt he was a cut above the normal car dealers.
This was, of course, before his eulogy for Hitler, Ozzy Mosley (being too clever was never the perceived problem with Mossy), torture and Saddam Hussein sort of confirmed it.
He's always struck me as the type of person often described over here as a chancer and in the USA as a carpet-bagger. He has no interest in the sport apart from the desire to run it and rake in money. He had the ability to be one of the great team managers and if he'd stuck with Brabham then I have no doubt that it would have exceeded Ferrari in WMCs by now. And I have the feeling he’d have been a happier man as well.
His cars were stunning. Well prepared, good looking and very, very fast. I was a big fan. I remember gasping the first time I saw the BT55. And probably the second as well.
It’s as well he was working class. Had he been in Spanky’s position he’d have been extremely dangerous.
He seems to be putting his head above the parapet a lot recently. This might be because of his divorce but it might also be concern about the 2013 Concord Agreement. This is the big one. If it goes against him then it could cost.
I’ve got a feeling that Todt is an entirely different kettle of fish to Spanky. Bernie dominated Max for some years, and merely for being so much sharper and clever and it wasn’t until Spanky wanted to make the occasional decision for himself that things began to fall apart. If I had to put money on who tipped off the NotW I know who I’d pick – the person who was likely to lose the most money if Spanky continued in self- and F1-destruct mode.
We will know which way F1 will go some time before 2013 of course. But I have to admit to being worried as to F1’s future.
One small point: the writer of the article says: . . . moving into countries with no previous tradition of racing.
What is ‘previous’ tradition?
Edited by Derek Smith on Tuesday 19th October 10:51
DJC said:
Derek Smith said:
Bernie was well known in the east end of London, becoming something of a mover and shaker in the tumultuous time after the demise of the Krays. He left for some reason, pulled out and disappeared around 1963/64. There was, evidently (before my time in the police, and by some distance) a rumour to the extent that he'd been topped. An old DI once said, this when Bernie was running Brabham, that the main suspects were all in CID.
A brief overview: There were two major factions trying for supremacy post Krays/Richardsons, the car dealers and the clubbers. They didn't have membership cards so the differentiation was rather broad but the classification still existed even in my time, the middle/late 70s. The CDs moved into the big robberies. Some suggest the great train robbery was one of theirs as well as an even bigger job in 71/72. Then there were others. There was a lot of inter-speciality rivalry so to speak and people disappeared, or appeared considerably the worse for wear, sometime in the river.
Some clubs were picked on by the car dealers for trashing just because it was easy to do and not because they were 'involved'. The same went in reverse and there was, evidently, something of a protection racket. If you wanted to run a car dealership in Essex then some of the profit was already marked.
There was a suggestion of a powerful and well protected Mr Big financing all the big robberies and perhaps that's why Bernie moved away. Too dangerous. Whatever he did in his sabbatical it must have been very productive as he reappeared with quite a wad.
It was not believed, by those who policed the east end at that time, that Bernie was a very nice man. That said there was a certain admiration for the man as it seems everyone felt he was a cut above the normal car dealers.
This was, of course, before his eulogy for Hitler, Ozzy Mosley (being too clever was never the perceived problem with Mossy), torture and Saddam Hussein sort of confirmed it.
He's always struck me as the type of person often described over here as a chancer and in the USA as a carpet-bagger. He has no interest in the sport apart from the desire to run it and rake in money. He had the ability to be one of the great team managers and if he'd stuck with Brabham then I have no doubt that it would have exceeded Ferrari in WMCs by now. And I have the feeling he’d have been a happier man as well.
His cars were stunning. Well prepared, good looking and very, very fast. I was a big fan. I remember gasping the first time I saw the BT55. And probably the second as well.
It’s as well he was working class. Had he been in Spanky’s position he’d have been extremely dangerous.
He seems to be putting his head above the parapet a lot recently. This might be because of his divorce but it might also be concern about the 2013 Concord Agreement. This is the big one. If it goes against him then it could cost.
I’ve got a feeling that Todt is an entirely different kettle of fish to Spanky. Bernie dominated Max for some years, and merely for being so much sharper and clever and it wasn’t until Spanky wanted to make the occasional decision for himself that things began to fall apart. If I had to put money on who tipped off the NotW I know who I’d pick – the person who was likely to lose the most money if Spanky continued in self- and F1-destruct mode.
We will know which way F1 will go some time before 2013 of course. But I have to admit to being worried as to F1’s future.
One small point: the writer of the article says: . . . moving into countries with no previous tradition of racing.
What is ‘previous’ tradition?
I read all that DS and have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.A brief overview: There were two major factions trying for supremacy post Krays/Richardsons, the car dealers and the clubbers. They didn't have membership cards so the differentiation was rather broad but the classification still existed even in my time, the middle/late 70s. The CDs moved into the big robberies. Some suggest the great train robbery was one of theirs as well as an even bigger job in 71/72. Then there were others. There was a lot of inter-speciality rivalry so to speak and people disappeared, or appeared considerably the worse for wear, sometime in the river.
Some clubs were picked on by the car dealers for trashing just because it was easy to do and not because they were 'involved'. The same went in reverse and there was, evidently, something of a protection racket. If you wanted to run a car dealership in Essex then some of the profit was already marked.
There was a suggestion of a powerful and well protected Mr Big financing all the big robberies and perhaps that's why Bernie moved away. Too dangerous. Whatever he did in his sabbatical it must have been very productive as he reappeared with quite a wad.
It was not believed, by those who policed the east end at that time, that Bernie was a very nice man. That said there was a certain admiration for the man as it seems everyone felt he was a cut above the normal car dealers.
This was, of course, before his eulogy for Hitler, Ozzy Mosley (being too clever was never the perceived problem with Mossy), torture and Saddam Hussein sort of confirmed it.
He's always struck me as the type of person often described over here as a chancer and in the USA as a carpet-bagger. He has no interest in the sport apart from the desire to run it and rake in money. He had the ability to be one of the great team managers and if he'd stuck with Brabham then I have no doubt that it would have exceeded Ferrari in WMCs by now. And I have the feeling he’d have been a happier man as well.
His cars were stunning. Well prepared, good looking and very, very fast. I was a big fan. I remember gasping the first time I saw the BT55. And probably the second as well.
It’s as well he was working class. Had he been in Spanky’s position he’d have been extremely dangerous.
He seems to be putting his head above the parapet a lot recently. This might be because of his divorce but it might also be concern about the 2013 Concord Agreement. This is the big one. If it goes against him then it could cost.
I’ve got a feeling that Todt is an entirely different kettle of fish to Spanky. Bernie dominated Max for some years, and merely for being so much sharper and clever and it wasn’t until Spanky wanted to make the occasional decision for himself that things began to fall apart. If I had to put money on who tipped off the NotW I know who I’d pick – the person who was likely to lose the most money if Spanky continued in self- and F1-destruct mode.
We will know which way F1 will go some time before 2013 of course. But I have to admit to being worried as to F1’s future.
One small point: the writer of the article says: . . . moving into countries with no previous tradition of racing.
What is ‘previous’ tradition?
Edited by Derek Smith on Tuesday 19th October 10:51
t.Nothing new here
DrTre said:
In my eyes there are broad similarities between what Simon Cowell is doing with X factor and Bernie Ecclestone has/is doing with F1; the event is becoming more important than action and the results.
Sort of sums it up for me: Bernie, the Simon Cowell of F1. A suitable epitaph.Sad quote
As a billionaire, you're at the very top already, you can do what you want when you want, at that point i'd be looking at another challenge. I'd want to run a team, be part of something that stirs the emotions, a bank balance does not give you a hard on.
Bernie said:
I don't get any individual pleasure because we don't win races or titles in this job. I'm like most business people. You look back at the end of the year and you see what you've achieved by working out how much money the company has made. That's it.
There has to be a point where the money is sufficient that you can't really do any more with it.As a billionaire, you're at the very top already, you can do what you want when you want, at that point i'd be looking at another challenge. I'd want to run a team, be part of something that stirs the emotions, a bank balance does not give you a hard on.
hotmelt said:
Nothing new, after all he is just a good manager, not intelectual.
I would suggest that this might be underselling him a bit. 'Just a good manager' is not my view.I first of all thought of him as an opportunist but he from what he has done I would suggest he would put a few chess masters to shame with his strategy and tactics.
Whether you are a fan or not, and I fall into the latter category, he is a man of considerable ability over a wide range of skills. Alonso may or may not be the driver of his generation, there are arguments for and against. I'm big fan of Ron Dennis but in any argument as to whether he's better than, for instance, Frank Williams there would be people in both camps equally convinced they are right. But Bernie is out on his own n his particular role. Whether what he has done has made the sport better or worse seems to be up for grabs.
My wife's a good manager but I don't think she could run FOM.
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