Formula 1 in 1991 and 1993 buffs required!

[xr287]

After downloading and playing the excellent F1 1991 and 1993 mods for rfactor by F1SR I'm curious about the rules in those days.

There are qualifying tyres available in the 1991 mod but not 1993. When did qualifying tyres stop being allowed?

I think there is supposed to have been active suspension in 1993, was there in 1991?

Any other random interesting facts you know from these years would also be welcome! Was news to me that in 1991 only the ferrari and williams had fully semi-automatic gearboxes that autoblipped on downshifts while everyone else had h-shifters and had to heel and toe.

[SirTainly]

Active suspension IIRC was something Williams brought to the mainstream in 1992.

AFAIK Quali tyres went west at the end of '91

[Teppic]

IIRC the qualifying tyres were outlawed for 1992, when the drivers were then limited to a maximum of 12 laps in qualifying on race tyres in an effort to reduce costs. Pirelli withdrew at the end of 1991, eliminating the tyre war between them and Goodyear, so the opportunity was taken to eliminate the need for super-sticky qualifying tyres. For 1993 the rear tyres were reduced in width from 18" to 15".

Active suspension was not raced in 1991, but was tested by Williams in practice for the Australian Grand Prix.

I'm sure I've heard Mansell mention that the semi-automatic gearbox in the Ferrari initially required the driver to lift during upshifts, whereas in the Williams the drivers could keep their foot on the accelerator.

Edited by Teppic on Monday 15th November 22:31

[Simes205]

The FW15b ran active suspension in 1993.
Ferrari were the first to use semi-auto boxes in 1989, Mansell won first time out.

Edited by Simes205 on Monday 15th November 22:37

[Teppic]

Simes205 said:

The FW15b ran active suspension in 1993.

FW15C

FW14B ran active suspension in 1992.

Edited to fix a smiley. I'm typing all of this on my HTC Desire!

Edited by Teppic on Monday 15th November 22:40

[Teppic]

The pitiful Andrea Moda team actually managed to qualify for the 1992 Monaco Grand Prix!

[Mazda Baiter]

Lotus used active suspension way before Williams, but it was to give the drivers an easier ride, rather than for optimum aero efficiency.

iirc (and I could well be wrong) Senna's Monaco 87 win, was the first for active suspension.

Slightly off topic, but didn't Patrick Head always maintain that the Williams active system was reactive rather than pure active.

[Teppic]

Mazda Baiter said:

Lotus used active suspension way before Williams, but it was to give the drivers an easier ride, rather than for optimum aero efficiency.

iirc (and I could well be wrong) Senna's Monaco 87 win, was the first for active suspension.

You're not wrong.

Mazda Baiter said:

Slightly off topic, but didn't Patrick Head always maintain that the Williams active system was reactive rather than pure active.

Edited to fix formatting. Bloody phone!

Edited by Teppic on Tuesday 16th November 01:28

[xr287]

Bedazzled said:

xr287 - thanks for the heads up re the mods, just downloading the '93 version now and I'll take it for a spin tomorrow. I love the '67 and '88 F1 mods, so I'm looking forward to trying these. Much more fun than modern F1 projectiles.

They are surprisingly different to drive I find. Although you can only get the 1993 league edition at the moment while 1991 is fully finished. The 1993 cars are glued to the track and easy to throw about whereas the 1991 cars attempt to swap ends on you as soon as you brake hard!



Another question, ABS was around in 1993, when did it start and stop being legal in F1?

[Alfa numeric]

Mazda Baiter said:

Slightly off topic, but didn't Patrick Head always maintain that the Williams active system was reactive rather than pure active.

Slightly further off topic, but didn't Williams call their system reactive because Lotus had copyrighted the name active?

[SirTainly]

xr287 said:

Bedazzled said:

xr287 - thanks for the heads up re the mods, just downloading the '93 version now and I'll take it for a spin tomorrow. I love the '67 and '88 F1 mods, so I'm looking forward to trying these. Much more fun than modern F1 projectiles.

They are surprisingly different to drive I find. Although you can only get the 1993 league edition at the moment while 1991 is fully finished. The 1993 cars are glued to the track and easy to throw about whereas the 1991 cars attempt to swap ends on you as soon as you brake hard!



Another question, ABS was around in 1993, when did it start and stop being legal in F1?

Most of the driver aids went at the end of 93', I would think it got banned at the same time.

[markcoznottz]

Teppic said:

For 1993 the rear tyres were reduced in width from 18" to 15".

Worst decision ever. Bring back mechanical grip!.

[Alfa numeric]

SirTainly said:

xr287 said:

Another question, ABS was around in 1993, when did it start and stop being legal in F1?

Most of the driver aids went at the end of 93', I would think it got banned at the same time.

Happy to be proved wrong on this, but I don't think ABS got as far as the track. Williams were developing it along with a CVT transmission when both were expressely banned by the new regulations.

Edited by Alfa numeric on Wednesday 17th November 11:30

[Derek Smith]

Alfa numeric said:

SirTainly said:

xr287 said:

Another question, ABS was around in 1993, when did it start and stop being legal in F1?

Most of the driver aids went at the end of 93', I would think it got banned at the same time.

Happy to be proved wrong on this, but I don't think ABS got as far as the track. Williams were developing it along with a CVT transmission when both were expressely banned by the new regulations.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I feel certain many will, but didn't the P99 of 1961 have a crude form of ABS?

It actually won an F1 race in the hands of Moss.

[lord summerisle]

Derek Smith said:

Alfa numeric said:

SirTainly said:

xr287 said:

Another question, ABS was around in 1993, when did it start and stop being legal in F1?

Most of the driver aids went at the end of 93', I would think it got banned at the same time.

Happy to be proved wrong on this, but I don't think ABS got as far as the track. Williams were developing it along with a CVT transmission when both were expressely banned by the new regulations.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I feel certain many will, but didn't the P99 of 1961 have a crude form of ABS?

It actually won an F1 race in the hands of Moss.

the P99 won the non championship Gold Cup race at Oulton Park.

[TXWRX]

i'm pretty sure mclaren had anti lock brakes in 93, indeed Senna had them on his car in that race at donington, the final version of that season's benetton had anti lock brakes, four wheel steer, active ride and traction control, the question is how much of that kit did the '94 car still have...

CVT was banned before it was ever used though, the FIA also tried to suddenly outlaw all the active systems half way through 93 i think, it was agreed to be for the next season

active suspension did cause some massive accidents when it failed!

Edited by TXWRX on Wednesday 17th November 14:07

[Mazda Baiter]

TXWRX said:

i'm pretty sure mclaren had anti lock brakes in 93, indeed Senna had them on his car in that race at donington, the final version of that season's benetton had anti lock brakes, four wheel steer, active ride and traction control, the question is how much of that kit did the '94 car still have...

An early 2000's edition of Motorsport magazine had an interview with Ross Brawn, he said that with the right programming, the 1993 Benneton would have been able to drive itself around the track with no driver inputs.

[TXWRX]

i can believe that, i remember Patrick Head saying they could do similar and had looked at theoretical active steer that would remove the drivers need to ever correct the car

[Teppic]

Alfa numeric said:

SirTainly said:

xr287 said:

Another question, ABS was around in 1993, when did it start and stop being legal in F1?

Most of the driver aids went at the end of 93', I would think it got banned at the same time.

Happy to be proved wrong on this, but I don't think ABS got as far as the track. Williams were developing it along with a CVT transmission when both were expressely banned by the new regulations.

Edited by Alfa numeric on Wednesday 17th November 11:30

Although they didn't start the 1993 season with it, ABS was definitely on the Willimas race cars by the mid point of the season. CVT was tested but never raced.

[Derek Smith]

lord summerisle said:

the P99 won the non championship Gold Cup race at Oulton Park.

But it was run to F1 wasn't it?

Did it have anti-lock brakes?