F1's new adjustable rear wing
Discussion
Ok, so initially I was thinking this all sounds great until I started to think about how it *could* be used and how it could detract from the spectacle of F1.
As I understand it, you have to be 1 second off the car in front, you can ONLY use it on the same straight as everyone else as dictated by Charlie Whiting and it should make over taking pretty easy. You also cannot use it on the first two laps at the start or after a safety car period.
So, onto my concerns.....teams will be forced into working as a team far more. I have visions of pairs of mclarens, redbulls, ferraris (well that depends on whether massa is bringing his A game next year) etc over taking each other lap on lap to work a gap on the field, ala tour de france.
You could go from the sport of no overtaking, or where overtaking moves are coveted as superb feats of skill or bravery to overtaking left right and center, making the feat actually pretty easy.
Imagine a situation where redbull have the fastest car again, and get a 1/2 situation. You would need to break your team mate otherwise last lap but one you are a sitting duck.
Yes it would be great to see more overtaking, although not to the extent it devalues what is such a spectacle.
They say they will tweak it as necessary, but imho you should allow it say 5 times a race, and wherever the driver thinks he can use it.... which you ARE allowed to do in qualy.
Thoughts?
As I understand it, you have to be 1 second off the car in front, you can ONLY use it on the same straight as everyone else as dictated by Charlie Whiting and it should make over taking pretty easy. You also cannot use it on the first two laps at the start or after a safety car period.
So, onto my concerns.....teams will be forced into working as a team far more. I have visions of pairs of mclarens, redbulls, ferraris (well that depends on whether massa is bringing his A game next year) etc over taking each other lap on lap to work a gap on the field, ala tour de france.
You could go from the sport of no overtaking, or where overtaking moves are coveted as superb feats of skill or bravery to overtaking left right and center, making the feat actually pretty easy.
Imagine a situation where redbull have the fastest car again, and get a 1/2 situation. You would need to break your team mate otherwise last lap but one you are a sitting duck.
Yes it would be great to see more overtaking, although not to the extent it devalues what is such a spectacle.
They say they will tweak it as necessary, but imho you should allow it say 5 times a race, and wherever the driver thinks he can use it.... which you ARE allowed to do in qualy.
Thoughts?
pw75 said:
Thoughts?
Solution A.They should make an FIA spec wing that the teams buy at cost which provides little downforce, but leaves little wake. There should be no movement in the wing.
Solution B.
Let the teams have a fully active aero set up. Let the technology rule.
Solution C.
Leave it alone. Don't touch it. The current formula seems to be working.
rhysenna said:
I think you might see an initial period of drivers desperately trying to defend from the car overtaking but then after some penalty's have been handed out it will become the norm.
Can the drivers use the wing plus kers at the same time?
yes - and the guy in front can't use his adjustable wing ... unless he is also within a second of another carCan the drivers use the wing plus kers at the same time?
the bit that seems dim to me is to go the effort of it and then only allow them to use it in one place on the circuit, so the car in front just needs to adjust his timing through the previous corner and the following car will find it very difficult to get close enough to activate the wing
llewop said:
rhysenna said:
I think you might see an initial period of drivers desperately trying to defend from the car overtaking but then after some penalty's have been handed out it will become the norm.
Can the drivers use the wing plus kers at the same time?
yes - and the guy in front can't use his adjustable wing ... unless he is also within a second of another carCan the drivers use the wing plus kers at the same time?
the bit that seems dim to me is to go the effort of it and then only allow them to use it in one place on the circuit, so the car in front just needs to adjust his timing through the previous corner and the following car will find it very difficult to get close enough to activate the wing
SamHH said:
llewop said:
rhysenna said:
I think you might see an initial period of drivers desperately trying to defend from the car overtaking but then after some penalty's have been handed out it will become the norm.
Can the drivers use the wing plus kers at the same time?
yes - and the guy in front can't use his adjustable wing ... unless he is also within a second of another carCan the drivers use the wing plus kers at the same time?
the bit that seems dim to me is to go the effort of it and then only allow them to use it in one place on the circuit, so the car in front just needs to adjust his timing through the previous corner and the following car will find it very difficult to get close enough to activate the wing
It's not allowed after a safety car restart. It should be fun, at least it'll provide a lot more movement of cars. I wonder whether people will be brave with gear ratios at the same time? Shame they can't be changed after qualifying, it'd be awesome to see someone come from the back with a massive top speed advantage somewhere like Spa.
davepoth said:
It's not allowed after a safety car restart. It should be fun, at least it'll provide a lot more movement of cars. I wonder whether people will be brave with gear ratios at the same time? Shame they can't be changed after qualifying, it'd be awesome to see someone come from the back with a massive top speed advantage somewhere like Spa.
I meant something similar to when they start under a safety car. They could employ the same tactic. 
rhysenna said:
davepoth said:
It's not allowed after a safety car restart. It should be fun, at least it'll provide a lot more movement of cars. I wonder whether people will be brave with gear ratios at the same time? Shame they can't be changed after qualifying, it'd be awesome to see someone come from the back with a massive top speed advantage somewhere like Spa.
I meant something similar to when they start under a safety car. They could employ the same tactic. I still think one of the better solutions would be to allow you to use it whenever you wanted to on a circuit but a max of say 5 times or whatever a race....but instead of like kers when everyone can hit the boost at the same time, diminishing the benefit the cars either side of you by 1 second cannot...so the first person to activate it gets the benefit. That then introduces strategy into when to use it, and surely another handful on statisticians back in the factory to work it all out.
llewop said:
thats what I was getting at - in effect there would only be one corner that you'd have to 'defend' against the trick-wing, so make sure that you get that one 'right' to hinder the guy behind getting close enough to activate the wing - he has to be within 1s at the timing point.... after that it won't be able to be activated. If I've understood it correctly.
If driving around a corner as fast as possible (as drivers ordinarily do) isn't enough to keep a competitor more than one second away, how else can you go around a corner to keep them more than one second away?Bedazzled said:
SamHH said:
If driving around a corner as fast as possible (as drivers ordinarily do) isn't enough to keep a competitor more than one second away, how else can you go around a corner to keep them more than one second away?
I suppose we might see some tricks such as brake testing on the corner entry causing the guy behind to back off, then piling on the gas for a faster exit speed, which might create a 1 sec gap if he catches him napping... or it might cause an accident.Can the driver in front change his wing once the other guy has got past, in order to re-take the place?
Adjustable wings and push-to-pass KERS all seems a bit artificial to me.
I remember when CART introduced a standard spec high drag rear wing into the Indycar Oval car spec, it was boring as hell watching the cars constantly overtaking each other, there was no skill involved in making a pass. I hope they havn't made this wing rule provide a similar result.
So if the wing is only allowed at one straight per track, what happens at somewhere tight like Monaco? The start finish 'straight' isn't that long and isn't straight, the only other place is through the tunnel, but that would be crazy scary. Did the teams use KERS there in 09? They could drop both things there and run basic cars with no KERS or bendy wings.
ajprice said:
So if the wing is only allowed at one straight per track, what happens at somewhere tight like Monaco? The start finish 'straight' isn't that long and isn't straight, the only other place is through the tunnel, but that would be crazy scary. Did the teams use KERS there in 09? They could drop both things there and run basic cars with no KERS or bendy wings.
When I was thinking about THE straight Monaco was the track I struggled with.Can't see why you are allowed to use the benefit everywhere in qualy and then not the race.
FFS, in 2010 we had drivers doing eau rouge with one hand on the wheel. Don't see why they think they need to limit it.
Defending like crazy every lap into the tunnel sounds like a fatality waiting to happen.
If my admittedly loose grasp of the new regulations is correct, the wing gives an advantage to the overtaker rather than the overtakee. In my mind, I see people hanging back until the last lap and then blasting past the guy in front of them so they don't have a chance to come back.
Will be intrigued to see how it actually works in practice.
Will be intrigued to see how it actually works in practice.
they should have LEDs in the rear wheel rims that light up when the driver is using their wing and some in the front rims the light up when they are using kers.
if they did it right they could make it spell something as they wizz down the straights "eat my dust melon farmers"
and they should be allowed to throw coconuts at each other
if they did it right they could make it spell something as they wizz down the straights "eat my dust melon farmers"
and they should be allowed to throw coconuts at each other
skinny said:
well the moveable front wing did bugger all to aid overtaking, and it's effect was probably larger than that of the moveable rear wing (given it's about 6 times the size!), so i can't see this doing anything
Patrick Head reckoned the adjustable rear wing would have far more of an effect than the front wings.What the FIA are suggesting is getting farcical. A bit "Mornington Crescent" maybe.
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