Level of journalism an professionalism in Motor Sport
Discussion
Hi,
has somebody out there noticed what I have noticed? In Motor Sport which claimes to be the number one authority in motor sport journalism, there seem to be strange cases of telepathy going on.
Look at this:
In the March Issue, Damien Smith (Editor of the magazine) writes on page 69:
"An enraged Caliri reached into the car, undid the belts and pulled his driver out. After the inevitable heated exchange, Pace jumped in, caught up with Ickx and obediently played his part in a near-formation finish. ..."
In his book "Time and Two Seats, Book 1, page 953, Janos Wimpffen wrote in 1998:
"Caliri reached into the car, undid the seat belts and pulled the driver out. After a heated exchange, Carlos Pace went back out and caught up with Ickx, the pair finishing a polite near-dead formation finish. ..."
Both continue, again with almost exactly the same words.
What should we think about this? Did somebody else notice this? I just discovered this by accident. Who knows how often this has happened in Motor Sport? My faith in the magazine's authority is seriously shaken.
By the way: I contacted Damien Smith and Nigel Roebuck for an explanation, but they both did not find my request worth an answer.
I am now about to contact Janos Wimpffen to hear what he thinks about this.
Cheers,
R.
has somebody out there noticed what I have noticed? In Motor Sport which claimes to be the number one authority in motor sport journalism, there seem to be strange cases of telepathy going on.
Look at this:
In the March Issue, Damien Smith (Editor of the magazine) writes on page 69:
"An enraged Caliri reached into the car, undid the belts and pulled his driver out. After the inevitable heated exchange, Pace jumped in, caught up with Ickx and obediently played his part in a near-formation finish. ..."
In his book "Time and Two Seats, Book 1, page 953, Janos Wimpffen wrote in 1998:
"Caliri reached into the car, undid the seat belts and pulled the driver out. After a heated exchange, Carlos Pace went back out and caught up with Ickx, the pair finishing a polite near-dead formation finish. ..."
Both continue, again with almost exactly the same words.
What should we think about this? Did somebody else notice this? I just discovered this by accident. Who knows how often this has happened in Motor Sport? My faith in the magazine's authority is seriously shaken.
By the way: I contacted Damien Smith and Nigel Roebuck for an explanation, but they both did not find my request worth an answer.
I am now about to contact Janos Wimpffen to hear what he thinks about this.
Cheers,
R.
That's very odd, MS is usually written and edited to a very high standard.
However I've noticed over the last few issues that they're relying more and more on articles which come across as being little more than PR exercises for manufacturers or teams, eg a recent one about the Skoda IRC effort which could have been lifted from a sales brochure. I wonder whether the mag is stretching itself a bit thinly in order to pack more in to each issue.
However I've noticed over the last few issues that they're relying more and more on articles which come across as being little more than PR exercises for manufacturers or teams, eg a recent one about the Skoda IRC effort which could have been lifted from a sales brochure. I wonder whether the mag is stretching itself a bit thinly in order to pack more in to each issue.
Writing an article is a very interesting process.
I wrote on about the Rouen GP circuit and included a section which said "the track then swoops and dives down the side of the hill". A fairly inoccuous sentence, until I picked up an old copy of MS and found that Adam Cooper had written an article about David Purley and had included that exact sentence to describe the downhill section of Rouen where Purley used to scream into his helmet to stop him from lifting.
A coincidence?
Had it been a purely independent thought process that made me write that?
Or
Had that sentence been sitting in my sub-concious just waiting to be typed out in the right context for a piece about the same 4 corners on a bit of road in France.
Difficult to call.
I wrote on about the Rouen GP circuit and included a section which said "the track then swoops and dives down the side of the hill". A fairly inoccuous sentence, until I picked up an old copy of MS and found that Adam Cooper had written an article about David Purley and had included that exact sentence to describe the downhill section of Rouen where Purley used to scream into his helmet to stop him from lifting.
A coincidence?
Had it been a purely independent thought process that made me write that?
Or
Had that sentence been sitting in my sub-concious just waiting to be typed out in the right context for a piece about the same 4 corners on a bit of road in France.
Difficult to call.
Not only is the text almost identical for an entire paragraph. It also describes the same event (Arturo Merzario refusing to obey team orders in the 1973 Nürburgring 1000 kms)!
That would be too much of telepathy!
I think the author just made a badly disguised copy and should apologize to the readers and subscribers of MS.
R.
That would be too much of telepathy!
I think the author just made a badly disguised copy and should apologize to the readers and subscribers of MS.
R.
rfein said:
Not only is the text almost identical for an entire paragraph. It also describes the same event (Arturo Merzario refusing to obey team orders in the 1973 Nürburgring 1000 kms)!
That would be too much of telepathy!
I think the author just made a badly disguised copy and should apologize to the readers and subscribers of MS.
R.
Apologise for what?That would be too much of telepathy!
I think the author just made a badly disguised copy and should apologize to the readers and subscribers of MS.
R.
Stop being a melodramatic twit and do what countless others have done over the decades and put your thoughts in a letter to the editor.
Damien Smith is about the same age as me, so i suspect that in order to write about this particular bit of motorsport history he would have needed to research it. And therefore probably read the book you have quoted. If this was a degree course then the fact he hasnt acknowledged the author would mean his work is rejected due to plagiarism. But hes an author not a student so can get away with writing any old tosh. There may be a court case in the offing who knows?
Just o let you know I DID write to the editor (who happens to be the author of the article at the same time), and to the editor-in-chief as well. Both preferred not to reply.
I want an excuse or at least an explanation.
It is up to Janos Wimpffen to make up a court case. He is the one who has really been damaged.
R.
I want an excuse or at least an explanation.
It is up to Janos Wimpffen to make up a court case. He is the one who has really been damaged.
R.
rfein said:
Just o let you know I DID write to the editor (who happens to be the author of the article at the same time), and to the editor-in-chief as well. Both preferred not to reply.
I want an excuse or at least an explanation.
It is up to Janos Wimpffen to make up a court case. He is the one who has really been damaged.
R.
And I want England to win the world cup. Never going to happen though, is it?I want an excuse or at least an explanation.
It is up to Janos Wimpffen to make up a court case. He is the one who has really been damaged.
R.
rfein said:
Just o let you know I DID write to the editor (who happens to be the author of the article at the same time), and to the editor-in-chief as well. Both preferred not to reply.
I want an excuse or at least an explanation.
It is up to Janos Wimpffen to make up a court case. He is the one who has really been damaged.
R.
How has he been damaged? He hasnt been damaged in any way as far as I can see. I want an excuse or at least an explanation.
It is up to Janos Wimpffen to make up a court case. He is the one who has really been damaged.
R.
Grow up and get a life.
Believe me Some Gump,
Englang can win the World Cup just as any other country (my country has won it several times), and the editor of MS can apologize for plagiarism. They have to think of their reputation and credibility and of the number of copies they sell. They can and they will apologize.
R.
Englang can win the World Cup just as any other country (my country has won it several times), and the editor of MS can apologize for plagiarism. They have to think of their reputation and credibility and of the number of copies they sell. They can and they will apologize.
R.
There are so many articles written that sooner or later phrases must get repeated - either deliberately or inadvertantly.
Listen to the Bob Newhart sketch on the monkeys and the work of Shakespeare.
On the whole, the current rendition of MS is brilliant and I would not knock them too much. If you want to see how bad it could be, go back to the issues produced under the last few months of Autopsort ownership as it had completely lost its way(sorry Autosport).
Listen to the Bob Newhart sketch on the monkeys and the work of Shakespeare.
On the whole, the current rendition of MS is brilliant and I would not knock them too much. If you want to see how bad it could be, go back to the issues produced under the last few months of Autopsort ownership as it had completely lost its way(sorry Autosport).
Rouleur said:
That's very odd, MS is usually written and edited to a very high standard.
However I've noticed over the last few issues that they're relying more and more on articles which come across as being little more than PR exercises for manufacturers or teams, eg a recent one about the Skoda IRC effort which could have been lifted from a sales brochure. I wonder whether the mag is stretching itself a bit thinly in order to pack more in to each issue.
This occurred to me when reading the Cosworth article in the April issue.However I've noticed over the last few issues that they're relying more and more on articles which come across as being little more than PR exercises for manufacturers or teams, eg a recent one about the Skoda IRC effort which could have been lifted from a sales brochure. I wonder whether the mag is stretching itself a bit thinly in order to pack more in to each issue.
I had been thinking the same of Ed Foster's trips around the country. However, the articles are generally well written and showcasing a bit of British industry is no bad thing. They were never going to survive by spending too much time focusing on the past, rather than the present and the future.
I think Damien Smith is doing a good job, but perhaps this discussion will help them consider the credibility of their research in future. Their readership is generally very well-informed so they must be aware of the potential for them to be caught out in the event of blatant word theft.
As an aside, the recent Murray Walker interview was wonderful.
I think Damien Smith is doing a good job, but perhaps this discussion will help them consider the credibility of their research in future. Their readership is generally very well-informed so they must be aware of the potential for them to be caught out in the event of blatant word theft.
As an aside, the recent Murray Walker interview was wonderful.
Just to explain myself better:
I think a lot of features on MS are just splendid, for example Simon Taylor's "lunch with...", Nigel Roebuck's reflections, all of Andrew Frankel's and Doug Nye's stuff, Bill Boddy even, and many other things.
Much the worse to find such a piece of obvious plagiarism in the middle of all this. It is just a shame and does not match with the rest. It puts all the good things into a bad light.
They should know their readers are better informed than some of them seem to think.
If this discussion will help them to be more honest and genuine, it will have had its purpose.
I still think they should have the courage to answer to a justified criticism though, if only to restore their credibility.
R.
I think a lot of features on MS are just splendid, for example Simon Taylor's "lunch with...", Nigel Roebuck's reflections, all of Andrew Frankel's and Doug Nye's stuff, Bill Boddy even, and many other things.
Much the worse to find such a piece of obvious plagiarism in the middle of all this. It is just a shame and does not match with the rest. It puts all the good things into a bad light.
They should know their readers are better informed than some of them seem to think.
If this discussion will help them to be more honest and genuine, it will have had its purpose.
I still think they should have the courage to answer to a justified criticism though, if only to restore their credibility.
R.
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