Councils not cutting sight lines @ roundabouts

[Lotobear]

Is this a UK wide thing?

Here in Cumbria, on most roundabouts the grass on critical sight lines entering roundabouts can be up to 1.0m high - some are off major roads ie M6.

I entered one yesterday where the grass on the roundabout had been neatly cut but the entrances onto the roundabout was completely obscured causing folk to have to edge out to get a line of site - Same on some crossings on central reservations.

Anyway just a random rant I guess but why is this not a priority?

[sixor8]

I think it's often deliberate to slow down the entry speed. I've seen roundabouts that have a type of screen so you have to almost stop before you can see the traffic on the right.

[darreni]

sixor8 said:

I think it's often deliberate to slow down the entry speed. I've seen roundabouts that have a type of screen so you have to almost stop before you can see the traffic on the right.

Totally this. It really goes against all common sense, deliberately blocking sight lines. Madness.

[Portofino]

Yep done on purpose, absolutely moronic.

[ian332isport]

In West Sussex (probably elsewhere) they're actively fitting barriers to reduce visibility as you approach some roundabouts.

[darreni]

I assume there must be some research that shows this reduces accidents rather than increases them?

[Funk]

Creates queues and traffic congestion where before you could have a free flow.

[Nicetobenice]

There seems to be a big increase in people approaching roundabouts at speed on the presumption that they have complete priority if nothing is coming from their right

And whilst I'm moaning hardly anyone understands unmarked crossroads either

[Tracklover]

ian332isport said:

In West Sussex (probably elsewhere) they're actively fitting barriers to reduce visibility as you approach some roundabouts.

Same in the Midlands

[Lotobear]

Is this actually a deliberate policy or anecdotal (not cutting to slow entry speed)?

I ask as I was discussing it with a friend who is a traffic engineer at Cumberland Council who also agreed it is ridiculous/dangerous they don't get cut but made no comment about it being a deliberate policy.

I find it hard to believe that it can be as if an accident was caused by this practice surely fingers could be pointed at those responsible for it

[ralphrj]

Nicetobenice said:

There seems to be a big increase in people approaching roundabouts at speed on the presumption that they have complete priority if nothing is coming from their right

This. I believe the official term for this is "anticipatory driving" and whilst thinking ahead sounds like the exact thing that every driver should do the danger is when people use it counter-intuitively. Instead of thinking that a roundabout is a junction that connects multiple entrances and exits so they should proceed with caution they instead think that nobody else will take the roundabout at speed so must be safe for them to take it at speed with just a quick glance to their right. However, if multiple people attempt the same thing at the same time from different entrances then it becomes chaotic with an increased possibility of a high speed collision. Drivers also tend to concentrate on larger vehicles and have a blindspot when it comes to more vulnerable users such as cyclists or motorcyclists.

Studies show that restricting excessive forward visibility reduces roundabout entry speed and significantly reduces injury collisions (by up to 75%).

Edited to add: Returning to the OP's point, I doubt that the failure to cut the grass on the roundabout approach is a deliberate traffic calming measure and, more likely, a result of public bodies cutting costs by reducing the frequency of grass cutting.

Edited by ralphrj on Wednesday 24th June 14:25

[Rusty Old-Banger]

Lotobear said:

Is this actually a deliberate policy or anecdotal (not cutting to slow entry speed)?

I ask as I was discussing it with a friend who is a traffic engineer at Cumberland Council who also agreed it is ridiculous/dangerous they don't get cut but made no comment about it being a deliberate policy.

I find it hard to believe that it can be as if an accident was caused by this practice surely fingers could be pointed at those responsible for it

Traffic engineer here.

It's design guidance to reduce visibility, you don't want people driving in to the roundabout too quickly, some roundabouts may be fine (especially to us driving gods) but generally there is sufficient deflection that speeds should be reduced.

https://standardsforhighways.co.uk/tses/attachment...

Para 3.51

The reduction in verge/CR trimming is also an eco thing, most areas have one or two cuts a year, and leaving the grass longer ticks some biodiversity target (or something)

[InitialDave]

If they're not trimming down any of it, probably coincidence.

If they're trimming the rest but leaving the sight lines overgrown, probably deliberate. And cheaper than building a fence to achieve the same end.

Agree on the fkwits who smoke into roundabouts at warp speed without considering whether it gives other people a chance to see them on approach.

[nickfrog]

darreni said:

Totally this. It really goes against all common sense, deliberately blocking sight lines. Madness.

Here is Sussex the screens are place fairly strategically to limit "optimistic" entry speeds without reducing flow (too much). I think it's a good thing overall.

[Lotobear]

InitialDave said:

If they're not trimming down any of it, probably coincidence.

If they're trimming the rest but leaving the sight lines overgrown, probably deliberate. And cheaper than building a fence to achieve the same end.

Agree on the fkwits who smoke into roundabouts at warp speed without considering whether it gives other people a chance to see them on approach.

HGV's are often the worst culprits for that

However saying that, there is a specific roundabout in question that caused me to start this thread where the 'fkwits' are those actually on the roundabout - M6 North J42 into Carlisle. Here the roundabout is wide and consequently you get traffic speeding on it from the A69 East or slingshotting to make the Carlisle entrance.

Trying to get onto the roundabout from M6 north is tricky even when the grass is low. When you have to inch out to gain a line of sight just in front of where they are aiming for it's frankly bloody dangerous, in any car but especially with a DSG transmission.

[InitialDave]

Lotobear said:

HGV's are often the worst culprits for that

However saying that, there is a specific roundabout in question that caused me to start this thread where the 'fkwits' are those actually on the roundabout - M6 North J42 into Carlisle. Here the roundabout is wide and consequently you get traffic speeding on it from the A69 East or slingshotting to make the Carlisle entrance.

Trying to get onto the roundabout from M6 north is tricky even when the grass is low. When you have to inch out to gain a line of sight just in front of where they are aiming for it's frankly bloody dangerous, in any car but especially with a DSG transmission.

Yep, same problem really, and not uncommon on big roundabouts.

People don't consider whether they're giving other road users the opportunity to see them.

[Wills2]

darreni said:

I assume there must be some research that shows this reduces accidents rather than increases them?

Probably from the same report that stated smart motorways are safer, due to the fact you risk breaking down in a live lane with a red X on a gantry to protect you...

[Wills2]

Rusty Old-Banger said:

Traffic engineer here.

It's design guidance to reduce visibility, you don't want people driving in to the roundabout too quickly, some roundabouts may be fine (especially to us driving gods) but generally there is sufficient deflection that speeds should be reduced.

https://standardsforhighways.co.uk/tses/attachment...

Para 3.51

The reduction in verge/CR trimming is also an eco thing, most areas have one or two cuts a year, and leaving the grass longer ticks some biodiversity target (or something)

Yeah because it's carnage out there isn't it, who'd want well sighted junctions what a crazy idea, instead let's make it harder, increase journey times, increase pollution and lower productivity.

I've yet to see one piece of road "improvement" locally that does anything but have a negative effect on traffic flow, this guidance isn't saving any lives it's just making the lives of people more frustrating.

But rather bizarrely the biggest safety issue, that being the dreadful state of repair our road network is in, is allowed to fester and get worse.

[SkinnyPete]

Thought this for years, terrible concept.

So much for road safety or reducing vehicle emissions.

[Rusty Old-Banger]

Wills2 said:

Rusty Old-Banger said:

Traffic engineer here.

It's design guidance to reduce visibility, you don't want people driving in to the roundabout too quickly, some roundabouts may be fine (especially to us driving gods) but generally there is sufficient deflection that speeds should be reduced.

https://standardsforhighways.co.uk/tses/attachment...

Para 3.51

The reduction in verge/CR trimming is also an eco thing, most areas have one or two cuts a year, and leaving the grass longer ticks some biodiversity target (or something)

Yeah because it's carnage out there isn't it, who'd want well sighted junctions what a crazy idea, instead let's make it harder, increase journey times, increase pollution and lower productivity.

I've yet to see one piece of road "improvement" locally that does anything but have a negative effect on traffic flow, this guidance isn't saving any lives it's just making the lives of people more frustrating.

But rather bizarrely the biggest safety issue, that being the dreadful state of repair our road network is in, is allowed to fester and get worse.

In your view. If you can't see that reducing speeds at junctions is a good thing from a safety stance, then I'm not sure there's any hope of trying to explain it to you. But try sailing in to any normal roundabout in the wet at 40mph, with the left deflection and then the right circulation and see how you get on. Then add in the sudden appearance of a car from the right and trying to stop (on a motorbike), in to the mix.

And roundabouts aren't built with the pothole fund.

If you want to talk about productivity etc; have a look at how much money a fatal accident costs the economy.