Why are European road SO much better?
Discussion
I recently did a Euro tour across France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Belgium, etc.
The roads are mostly billiard table smooth (99% of them). There aren't even filled in pot holes, there just aren't any at all, or road repairs.
How is this possible when ours are so utterly appalling? Do they build them differently? Is there less traffic?
The roads are mostly billiard table smooth (99% of them). There aren't even filled in pot holes, there just aren't any at all, or road repairs.
How is this possible when ours are so utterly appalling? Do they build them differently? Is there less traffic?
Yes I agree, lovely smooth roads coming back through France, plus a higher speed limit... Then you go through the tunnel and end up on the concrete section on the southern M25 
Thud thud thud thud bang etc... (And the other day I swear there is a dangerous speed hump/ridge somewhere between Leatherhead and the Cobham services.
Thud thud thud thud bang etc... (And the other day I swear there is a dangerous speed hump/ridge somewhere between Leatherhead and the Cobham services.
Hub said:
Yes I agree, lovely smooth roads coming back through France, plus a higher speed limit... Then you go through the tunnel and end up on the concrete section on the southern M25
Thud thud thud thud bang etc... (And the other day I swear there is a dangerous speed hump/ridge somewhere between Leatherhead and the Cobham services.
There are dangerous humps all over many roads, Thud thud thud thud bang etc... (And the other day I swear there is a dangerous speed hump/ridge somewhere between Leatherhead and the Cobham services.
I think continued filling of joint cracks on old sinking roads.
A13 through the Tilbury stretch has some monsters.
Frimley111R said:
How is this possible when ours are so utterly appalling? Do they build them differently? Is there less traffic?
Short answer. Money.Slightly longer answer. Yes, different construction and materials, however climate is a big part. People often ask why we don't use the same materials for our road construction. The answer to that is complex, but it has been tried and the surface materials (many of them SMAs - stone mastic asphalts) failed very quickly.
Drainage is another big issue. Water destroys roads more than any other single factor and the drainage systems in many parts of the UK are very poor and would require very heavy investment to bring up to standard.
But yes, money. Roads assets are massively underinvested and before the influx of voices talking about brown envelopes and council/contractor corruption appear, this is not the core problem. It's actually a symptom of the underinvestment. But this is a complex topic which would require an essay length explanation.
Roads engineers here btw.
the cueball said:
Costed, funded and built differently for a different climate.
Yes, but, Calais and Dover's climates aren't that different. But when you drive on the French side you will often notice large sections where the cracks have been filled in with that rubbery tar stuff. Guess it stops water getting in the crack and breaking up further. Like this:
Whereas in the UK, that road will just stay like this:
I think theyre just more proactive with repairs.
Edited by budgie smuggler on Thursday 13th August 09:34
budgie smuggler said:
the cueball said:
Costed, funded and built differently for a different climate.
Yes, but, Calais and Dover's climates aren't that different. But when you drive on the French side you will often notice large sections where the cracks have been filled in with that rubbery tar stuff. Guess it stops water getting in the crack and breaking up further. Like this:
Whereas in the UK, that road will just stay like this:
I think theyre just more proactive with repairs.
Edited by budgie smuggler on Thursday 13th August 09:34
No kerb and the road is falling away to the side.
The end of the M11 , Cambridge, is doing this, has had a 40 mph limit for ages, look at the lampposts on the southbound, they are leaning over drastically.
The slip roads from M25 onto A 127 are like a roller coaster ride .
It comes done to poor building in the first place doesn't it?
Why is the sub base and layed tarmac not compacted as it used to be?
Doesitdrive said:
In the Uk picture the cracks are for different reasons than the kerbed French road.
No kerb and the road is falling away to the side.
The end of the M11 , Cambridge, is doing this, has had a 40 mph limit for ages, look at the lampposts on the southbound, they are leaning over drastically.
The slip roads from M25 onto A 127 are like a roller coaster ride .
It comes done to poor building in the first place doesn't it?
Why is the sub base and layed tarmac not compacted as it used to be?
Sure but I just picked random pictures to illustrate, my point wasn't that specific piece of road, it's that minor damage is not allowed to become a major pothole. Even tiny roads are generally well looked after, like the one outside my M-I-L's house in the arse-end of knowhere serving two farms, her cottage and and a bakery. There are no kerbs etc on that, if it was in the UK it would be cracked, holed, the edge would be absolutely fNo kerb and the road is falling away to the side.
The end of the M11 , Cambridge, is doing this, has had a 40 mph limit for ages, look at the lampposts on the southbound, they are leaning over drastically.
The slip roads from M25 onto A 127 are like a roller coaster ride .
It comes done to poor building in the first place doesn't it?
Why is the sub base and layed tarmac not compacted as it used to be?
ked up and falling in the ditch. Not there, they come along every few years and neaten it up.Edited by budgie smuggler on Thursday 13th August 10:19
I've said this before on here, but the reason roads in many part of the UK have deteriorated so badly in the last 15 years or so is, sadly, ideologically-driven austerity.
The Govt. demanded budget cuts, so some bright spark in the Council suggested deferring a large part of the road repair budget, assessing (correctly) that a single year would not cause a huge additional issue.
After that first year, the councillors nervously looked around and thought "Hey, nobody died" and so of course said "Let's do it again!"
Happy days, pints and chauffeur-driven Jags all round
That pretty much led to permanent budget reallocation though and then after 6 or 7 years people started to say to the councillors "C'mon lads, the roads round here are getting really stty. Do something!".
So, the roads dept. are asked to look at a plan to recover things and this produces a very scary number, vastly more than the deferred spend total, and a timeline that stretches into decades.
Everyone recoils in horror and wails "How could we have let this happen?!" and the bean counters say it can't be done. Never. Period. They say that even the modest annual spend that used to be allocated to repairs cannot be returned to the roads budget as it is now being spent on ballooning social care, leaky school roofs etc.
They ask the Govt. for more dough and are told "lol lmao"
And so here we are, in 2026...
The Govt. demanded budget cuts, so some bright spark in the Council suggested deferring a large part of the road repair budget, assessing (correctly) that a single year would not cause a huge additional issue.
After that first year, the councillors nervously looked around and thought "Hey, nobody died" and so of course said "Let's do it again!"
Happy days, pints and chauffeur-driven Jags all round
That pretty much led to permanent budget reallocation though and then after 6 or 7 years people started to say to the councillors "C'mon lads, the roads round here are getting really s
tty. Do something!".So, the roads dept. are asked to look at a plan to recover things and this produces a very scary number, vastly more than the deferred spend total, and a timeline that stretches into decades.
Everyone recoils in horror and wails "How could we have let this happen?!" and the bean counters say it can't be done. Never. Period. They say that even the modest annual spend that used to be allocated to repairs cannot be returned to the roads budget as it is now being spent on ballooning social care, leaky school roofs etc.
They ask the Govt. for more dough and are told "lol lmao"
And so here we are, in 2026...
I spent an extended period of time in Southern Spain January onwards and what is apparent is the climate is so much different to the UK.
It did rain but was dry by early afternoon, with sun, and did not ever see a frost or in fact anything sub 8 degrees.
I appreciate all the other comments about funding, workmanship etc but in the UK we battle rain and freezing for 5 months of the year .
It did rain but was dry by early afternoon, with sun, and did not ever see a frost or in fact anything sub 8 degrees.
I appreciate all the other comments about funding, workmanship etc but in the UK we battle rain and freezing for 5 months of the year .
Lefty said:
Not in lots of rural places they're not. I was in NM recently and the roads are shocking in places
Well done, you've picked New Mexico, well known to be one of the very poorest states in USA. It is in no way typical of the 50 US states.Someone else mentioned rain and frost. Well, I wonder how they manage in Canada, Scandinavia, Austria, Switzerland and other such places? And then we get to Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany where the climate's pretty much the same as UK.
The condition of UK roads is just one example of UK's chronic under-investment in infrastructure.
Aha! What we should do is nationalise the roads and stop all the profiteering by private companies. Oh, hang on a minute....
Texas is the same 
https://www.moneygeek.com/living/driving/states-wo...
NM isn't in the bottom 10 according to this source
https://www.moneygeek.com/living/driving/states-wo...
NM isn't in the bottom 10 according to this source
It seems to me that it isn't even about maintenance - the UK roads are made from cheese from the outset.
Somehow instead of the smooth / more or less silent surfaces which make up the majority of roads across mainland Europe, the UK gets some kind of half-arsed nasty attempt at tarmac which then rapidly deteriorates over time.
Crossing from Calais to France feels like entering the future and then there's the sublime experience of crossing the border into Germany where you discover how things could be, with or without the speed restrictions.
It's so bad that you basically need a completely different suspension set-up in the UK, and this has been the case for a long time.
Your typical BMW is a joke in the UK, but somehow people seem to enjoy being thrown around inside the cabin for sts and giggles.
I'd take a Focus Mk1 / MG Rover setup over anything recent with a German badge.
Somehow instead of the smooth / more or less silent surfaces which make up the majority of roads across mainland Europe, the UK gets some kind of half-arsed nasty attempt at tarmac which then rapidly deteriorates over time.
Crossing from Calais to France feels like entering the future and then there's the sublime experience of crossing the border into Germany where you discover how things could be, with or without the speed restrictions.
It's so bad that you basically need a completely different suspension set-up in the UK, and this has been the case for a long time.
Your typical BMW is a joke in the UK, but somehow people seem to enjoy being thrown around inside the cabin for s
ts and giggles. I'd take a Focus Mk1 / MG Rover setup over anything recent with a German badge.
PaulD86 said:
Short answer. Money.
Slightly longer answer. Yes, different construction and materials, however climate is a big part. People often ask why we don't use the same materials for our road construction. The answer to that is complex, but it has been tried and the surface materials (many of them SMAs - stone mastic asphalts) failed very quickly.
Drainage is another big issue. Water destroys roads more than any other single factor and the drainage systems in many parts of the UK are very poor and would require very heavy investment to bring up to standard.
But yes, money. Roads assets are massively underinvested and before the influx of voices talking about brown envelopes and council/contractor corruption appear, this is not the core problem. It's actually a symptom of the underinvestment. But this is a complex topic which would require an essay length explanation.
Roads engineers here btw.
Just wanted to thank you for this post Paul so you know at least one person read it!Slightly longer answer. Yes, different construction and materials, however climate is a big part. People often ask why we don't use the same materials for our road construction. The answer to that is complex, but it has been tried and the surface materials (many of them SMAs - stone mastic asphalts) failed very quickly.
Drainage is another big issue. Water destroys roads more than any other single factor and the drainage systems in many parts of the UK are very poor and would require very heavy investment to bring up to standard.
But yes, money. Roads assets are massively underinvested and before the influx of voices talking about brown envelopes and council/contractor corruption appear, this is not the core problem. It's actually a symptom of the underinvestment. But this is a complex topic which would require an essay length explanation.
Roads engineers here btw.
Now back to everyone spouting random observations…
dan98 said:
It seems to me that it isn't even about maintenance - the UK roads are made from cheese from the outset.
Somehow instead of the smooth / more or less silent surfaces which make up the majority of roads across mainland Europe, the UK gets some kind of half-arsed nasty attempt at tarmac which then rapidly deteriorates over time.
There's more to it than just looks though. It's the entire approach to the surface.Somehow instead of the smooth / more or less silent surfaces which make up the majority of roads across mainland Europe, the UK gets some kind of half-arsed nasty attempt at tarmac which then rapidly deteriorates over time.
UK roads have excellent drainage which means they are 'rougher' (bigger bits in the aggregate, more holes between them) and potentially noisier and with worse wear characteristics (same load over a smaller contact patch), but the flip side is that they don't turn into mirrors when the heavens open like those lovely smooth European surfaces.
Given the UK climate it's probably the correct approach, and when it tips down in Europe I always wish I had a UK surface underneath me with proper retroreflective lines (so many countries use much thinner paint with minimal retroreflective properties which is basically useless in anything more than light rain). Maybe even cats eyes
which you don't really miss until there are none.With the wrong combination of surface, precipitation, and lighting it can be genuinely lethal trying to drive in a downpour in some places in Europe, whereas the same rain on a UK surface would still allow you to clearly see the lane demarcation etc.
I guess the idea is that this forces you to slow down, but it's still less safe than the same conditions on a UK surface.
dan98 said:
Crossing from Calais to France feels like entering the future and then there's the sublime experience of crossing the border into Germany where you discover how things could be, with or without the speed restrictions.
Try Luxembourg 
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