My Rover 75 Tourer CDTi - With a difference!
Discussion
Thought I'd let you into the madness that is my head, by showing you my latest 'project'. 
I needed an estate car for work, as I'd just started my own business. I couldn't be doing with a van, and I knew I'd miss my acceleration (coming from 2 Rover 620tis, a ZT190 and a 170bhp MG ZS diesel) so needed to get something I knew I could play with when the time came.
I noticed the Land Rover guys were getting good returns from modifying the TD4 BMW diesel engine, the very same as fitted to the 75. You can see where this is going...
I picked up my Tourer for £1600 from a lovely chap in Nottingham. Funnily enough, the original owner bought the car from up the road from my house in 2003, and it lived around here until 2008.
A couple of pics when I got back:
Some specs:
- 2003 Rover 75 Connoisseur Tourer CDTi
- 131bhp BMW M47R common-rail diesel engine
- Heated and electrically adjustable seats (finally!), dual zone climate, 4x electric windows, a stupid amount of interior lights and more dashboard lights than the Starship Enterprise
- Big metal parking sensor, I mean towbar with twin electrics
- Decent amount of work done - clutch and slave cylinder, both fuel pumps, front brakes and good service history
The first thing I noticed was just how slow it was. I've had slow cars, and this was just abysmal - pulling out of junctions was a hair-raising experience!
Turns out the MAF was knackered, I unplugged it and immediately noticed the difference. It didn't move badly at all for it's size with this simple 'fix'.
Right, onto the modifications. So far it's had:
- Synergy II tuning module, this works via upping the fuel rail pressure. It also has a MAF compensator, meaning I could loop my degraded MAF through this box and it'd help it struggle on for a bit longer. Works great, still going strong.
- Remap. I spoke to a specialist in my area, who had a custom map written for the car. Definitely helped - running much smoother and I get a lovely surge of power at around 2300rpm, after the car has developed full boost. This was mainly done to make sure I don't get ridiculous amounts of smoke from unburned fuel.
- Stainless steel exhaust system. Done by my local PowerFlow dealer, I'm quite impressed with their work. Full turbo-back system, with no CAT and only one silencer. Hidden behind the rear bumper - too old for these daft exits.
- EGR blanking kit, as my EGR was badly gummed up.
- Boost upped to 21psi, just to keep on top of all that extra fuel.
At the last dyno run I had a failing fuel pump, and also the tuning box was set up incorrectly, resulting in quite a large power loss. I made 160bhp at the flywheel, and 300lb/ft of torque. I have replaced the fuel pump and got the tuning box corrected, and I would estimate I now have between 180 and 185bhp, with a minimal increase in torque (the map loaded limits fuel at peak torque when the turbo comes on boost, to lower smoke levels and not overload the clutch). Perhaps 330lb/ft of torque.
I already had experience of the 75/ZT platform in the form of a lovely ZT190 I owned for a few months. I knew from this that you could either have a lovely, easy to maintain car that gave you no problems, or a total nightmare of a moneypit that continuously threw large bills your way.
Luckily, this one has behaved. Bought on 168,000 miles, now on 190,000 and I've only had to buy the following (all fitted myself):
- Clutch master cylinder. Not done when the rest of the system was - asking for failure. £100
- Alternator. £60 for parts needed to repair mine. I bought a recon alternator, it didn't fit so I stole bits from it, then sold it on for refurbishment.
- Lots of tyres, torque eats rubber!
Random pictures of various bits of work being done:
Alternator repair:
The ridiculous belt system, combined with poor access means the alternator was a fun job:
Lovely day out on the moors:
On a Germany / France / Belgium / Amsterdam roadtrip last December:
Making use of the loadspace - this was piled to the roof in Germany!
Hope you've enjoyed reading, will update as my quest for more power goes on.
I needed an estate car for work, as I'd just started my own business. I couldn't be doing with a van, and I knew I'd miss my acceleration (coming from 2 Rover 620tis, a ZT190 and a 170bhp MG ZS diesel) so needed to get something I knew I could play with when the time came.
I noticed the Land Rover guys were getting good returns from modifying the TD4 BMW diesel engine, the very same as fitted to the 75. You can see where this is going...
I picked up my Tourer for £1600 from a lovely chap in Nottingham. Funnily enough, the original owner bought the car from up the road from my house in 2003, and it lived around here until 2008.
A couple of pics when I got back:
Some specs:
- 2003 Rover 75 Connoisseur Tourer CDTi
- 131bhp BMW M47R common-rail diesel engine
- Heated and electrically adjustable seats (finally!), dual zone climate, 4x electric windows, a stupid amount of interior lights and more dashboard lights than the Starship Enterprise
- Big metal parking sensor, I mean towbar with twin electrics
- Decent amount of work done - clutch and slave cylinder, both fuel pumps, front brakes and good service history
The first thing I noticed was just how slow it was. I've had slow cars, and this was just abysmal - pulling out of junctions was a hair-raising experience!
Turns out the MAF was knackered, I unplugged it and immediately noticed the difference. It didn't move badly at all for it's size with this simple 'fix'.
Right, onto the modifications. So far it's had:
- Synergy II tuning module, this works via upping the fuel rail pressure. It also has a MAF compensator, meaning I could loop my degraded MAF through this box and it'd help it struggle on for a bit longer. Works great, still going strong.
- Remap. I spoke to a specialist in my area, who had a custom map written for the car. Definitely helped - running much smoother and I get a lovely surge of power at around 2300rpm, after the car has developed full boost. This was mainly done to make sure I don't get ridiculous amounts of smoke from unburned fuel.
- Stainless steel exhaust system. Done by my local PowerFlow dealer, I'm quite impressed with their work. Full turbo-back system, with no CAT and only one silencer. Hidden behind the rear bumper - too old for these daft exits.
- EGR blanking kit, as my EGR was badly gummed up.
- Boost upped to 21psi, just to keep on top of all that extra fuel.
At the last dyno run I had a failing fuel pump, and also the tuning box was set up incorrectly, resulting in quite a large power loss. I made 160bhp at the flywheel, and 300lb/ft of torque. I have replaced the fuel pump and got the tuning box corrected, and I would estimate I now have between 180 and 185bhp, with a minimal increase in torque (the map loaded limits fuel at peak torque when the turbo comes on boost, to lower smoke levels and not overload the clutch). Perhaps 330lb/ft of torque.
I already had experience of the 75/ZT platform in the form of a lovely ZT190 I owned for a few months. I knew from this that you could either have a lovely, easy to maintain car that gave you no problems, or a total nightmare of a moneypit that continuously threw large bills your way.
Luckily, this one has behaved. Bought on 168,000 miles, now on 190,000 and I've only had to buy the following (all fitted myself):
- Clutch master cylinder. Not done when the rest of the system was - asking for failure. £100
- Alternator. £60 for parts needed to repair mine. I bought a recon alternator, it didn't fit so I stole bits from it, then sold it on for refurbishment.
- Lots of tyres, torque eats rubber!
Random pictures of various bits of work being done:
Alternator repair:
The ridiculous belt system, combined with poor access means the alternator was a fun job:
Lovely day out on the moors:
On a Germany / France / Belgium / Amsterdam roadtrip last December:
Making use of the loadspace - this was piled to the roof in Germany!
Hope you've enjoyed reading, will update as my quest for more power goes on.
Edited by mattyprice4004 on Monday 30th April 22:30
I keep considering options, and all I come back with is a bigger turbo. Tuning a diesel is like tuning a bonfire - chuck more fuel on, stand back and hope for the best! 
Luckily it's not VNT, so it's just a case of finding something that bolts up OK and gives ample boost where it's needed - being such a small unit on there at the moment it's pretty responsive.
Apart from that, no idea where to go next! Considering buying a ZT260 to replace the 75, but undecided.
Luckily it's not VNT, so it's just a case of finding something that bolts up OK and gives ample boost where it's needed - being such a small unit on there at the moment it's pretty responsive.
Apart from that, no idea where to go next! Considering buying a ZT260 to replace the 75, but undecided.
Synchromesh said:
Been warming to these for a while. I think a ZT-T V6 190 would do. Money pit?
I've spent well over £1k in the last couple of months on cambelts, water pump, slave cylinder and master cylinder and that's before petrol. Money pit just about sums it up however I've now got a great running car which had just done 1200 miles to Ireland and back without missing a beat.
I had a ZT190.
It's a really mixed bag - look on Parkers at owner's reviews and some people go literally years without spending a penny. Others such as above have to shell out for jobs that are expensive and necessary, but once done properly should be fine for many years to come.
The car itself is solid and dependable in my experience, it's just the age they're all at means various bits and bobs will be approaching the end of their useful life.
On a ZT-T 190, you'd probably encounter (or hopefully someone before you has and fixed accordingly)
- Clutch hydraulic system issues. Usually slave failure, meaning gearbox removal. 4-5 hour job, easy to DIY with patience. New clutch and slave around £150 plus labour. Master is £100 and easy to swap, failure isn't that common but does happen.
- Inlet manifold issues. Sometimes the swirl flaps start to rattle - but fear not, they cannot be ingested by the engine. It's the plastic bush the rod to actuate the flaps sits within wearing down, but it will affect power if it gets very bad. 2nd hand good manifolds are about £120 and takes 2 hours to fit.
- Thermostat leaks. The 'stat is in the middle of the V, so you need to remove the inlet manifold to access it. New 'stat is about £40 in kit form, and should outlive the car.
- Cambelts are due at 90k or 6 years. It's a £500 job.
Apart from that, they're a good, solid car. You'll always get odd little problems over a period of years as with any car - for example my rear door lock failed on my ZT. Not to worry, £10 later and a good 2nd hand one via eBay was fitted.
If you can DIY or have a good, trustworthy garage that won't tell you that you have HGF whatever the problem really is, a ZT is a bargain buy.
A fully loaded (nav, Xenons, auto-wipers, etc etc) ZT-T 190 went for £995 a few weeks back. For that kind of money, the above repairs don't really matter!
Not to mention the fact the V6 makes it a brisk car, and the handling is superb. They really stick to the road. I couldn't find a ZT-T in my price range when I bought this, otherwise I'd have one on my drive.
It's a really mixed bag - look on Parkers at owner's reviews and some people go literally years without spending a penny. Others such as above have to shell out for jobs that are expensive and necessary, but once done properly should be fine for many years to come.
The car itself is solid and dependable in my experience, it's just the age they're all at means various bits and bobs will be approaching the end of their useful life.
On a ZT-T 190, you'd probably encounter (or hopefully someone before you has and fixed accordingly)
- Clutch hydraulic system issues. Usually slave failure, meaning gearbox removal. 4-5 hour job, easy to DIY with patience. New clutch and slave around £150 plus labour. Master is £100 and easy to swap, failure isn't that common but does happen.
- Inlet manifold issues. Sometimes the swirl flaps start to rattle - but fear not, they cannot be ingested by the engine. It's the plastic bush the rod to actuate the flaps sits within wearing down, but it will affect power if it gets very bad. 2nd hand good manifolds are about £120 and takes 2 hours to fit.
- Thermostat leaks. The 'stat is in the middle of the V, so you need to remove the inlet manifold to access it. New 'stat is about £40 in kit form, and should outlive the car.
- Cambelts are due at 90k or 6 years. It's a £500 job.
Apart from that, they're a good, solid car. You'll always get odd little problems over a period of years as with any car - for example my rear door lock failed on my ZT. Not to worry, £10 later and a good 2nd hand one via eBay was fitted.
If you can DIY or have a good, trustworthy garage that won't tell you that you have HGF whatever the problem really is, a ZT is a bargain buy.
A fully loaded (nav, Xenons, auto-wipers, etc etc) ZT-T 190 went for £995 a few weeks back. For that kind of money, the above repairs don't really matter!
Not to mention the fact the V6 makes it a brisk car, and the handling is superb. They really stick to the road. I couldn't find a ZT-T in my price range when I bought this, otherwise I'd have one on my drive.
As for tuning further on a budget, how about a better intercooler? Can you get ported compressor or turbine housings for the turbo? What turbo does it use?
Also, what air filter has it got? Its surprising how much difference a big free flowing filter with a hard intake pipe (not a rubber hose) can make when the boost pressures get high.
Very interesting!
Also, what air filter has it got? Its surprising how much difference a big free flowing filter with a hard intake pipe (not a rubber hose) can make when the boost pressures get high.
Very interesting!
Edited by RobCrezz on Tuesday 1st May 12:17
Hi there, thanks for the replies.
The air intake system is standard, although I have performed the 'air intake mod' which involves cutting out the corrugated section of ducting that runs from the slam panel to the air filter housing. The forward part of this assembly is incredibly restrictive, and just leaving the larger diameter sections in place has really helped the top end.
The air filter is also a standard item, although I may move to a K&N replacement when the time comes. I may just remove the whole air filter / intake assembly and as suggested, use something hard and free-flowing straight to the MAF.
The intercooler is fairly large, and on the 3 power runs I had (with no rest gap in between) I made exactly 160bhp, so that would hopefully suggest it's up to the job. I was surprised just how big it is - nearly a metre long and double pass too.
Regarding the build quality of the car itself, I am impressed also - nearly 200k and the interior could be mistaken for a 50k example.
The air intake system is standard, although I have performed the 'air intake mod' which involves cutting out the corrugated section of ducting that runs from the slam panel to the air filter housing. The forward part of this assembly is incredibly restrictive, and just leaving the larger diameter sections in place has really helped the top end.
The air filter is also a standard item, although I may move to a K&N replacement when the time comes. I may just remove the whole air filter / intake assembly and as suggested, use something hard and free-flowing straight to the MAF.
The intercooler is fairly large, and on the 3 power runs I had (with no rest gap in between) I made exactly 160bhp, so that would hopefully suggest it's up to the job. I was surprised just how big it is - nearly a metre long and double pass too.
Regarding the build quality of the car itself, I am impressed also - nearly 200k and the interior could be mistaken for a 50k example.
mattyprice4004 said:
Hi there, thanks for the replies.
The air intake system is standard, although I have performed the 'air intake mod' which involves cutting out the corrugated section of ducting that runs from the slam panel to the air filter housing. The forward part of this assembly is incredibly restrictive, and just leaving the larger diameter sections in place has really helped the top end.
The air filter is also a standard item, although I may move to a K&N replacement when the time comes. I may just remove the whole air filter / intake assembly and as suggested, use something hard and free-flowing straight to the MAF.
The intercooler is fairly large, and on the 3 power runs I had (with no rest gap in between) I made exactly 160bhp, so that would hopefully suggest it's up to the job. I was surprised just how big it is - nearly a metre long and double pass too.
Regarding the build quality of the car itself, I am impressed also - nearly 200k and the interior could be mistaken for a 50k example.
Sounds good, worth having a hard pipe between the turbo and the MAF also. Yeah also get a big cone filter.The air intake system is standard, although I have performed the 'air intake mod' which involves cutting out the corrugated section of ducting that runs from the slam panel to the air filter housing. The forward part of this assembly is incredibly restrictive, and just leaving the larger diameter sections in place has really helped the top end.
The air filter is also a standard item, although I may move to a K&N replacement when the time comes. I may just remove the whole air filter / intake assembly and as suggested, use something hard and free-flowing straight to the MAF.
The intercooler is fairly large, and on the 3 power runs I had (with no rest gap in between) I made exactly 160bhp, so that would hopefully suggest it's up to the job. I was surprised just how big it is - nearly a metre long and double pass too.
Regarding the build quality of the car itself, I am impressed also - nearly 200k and the interior could be mistaken for a 50k example.
This site is good if you need any hard pipes/silcone couplers/elbows etc:
http://www.viperperformance.co.uk/
Well, thought I'd give you a quick update.
A few days ago I had an odd fuelling issue, under hard acceleration the engine would cut out. I traced it back to a (badly!) leaking injector, which I'll need to get sorted. For now I've knocked the fuelling down and it seems to be behaving - the error I got when cutting out was low fuel rail pressure.
Also, to add insult to injury - the clutch master cylinder started leaking. I first noticed when trying to select a gear for a 3 point turn, the bite point seemed very low. I managed to get it in gear (just) and popped the cover above the pedals off - confirmed that the master was indeed leaking from the point the shaft enters the housing.
Luckily it's 7 months old and under warranty, it was an original LUK too. It's something to be aware of with any manual 75 / ZT - the clutch hydraulics are awful.
A few days ago I had an odd fuelling issue, under hard acceleration the engine would cut out. I traced it back to a (badly!) leaking injector, which I'll need to get sorted. For now I've knocked the fuelling down and it seems to be behaving - the error I got when cutting out was low fuel rail pressure.
Also, to add insult to injury - the clutch master cylinder started leaking. I first noticed when trying to select a gear for a 3 point turn, the bite point seemed very low. I managed to get it in gear (just) and popped the cover above the pedals off - confirmed that the master was indeed leaking from the point the shaft enters the housing.
Luckily it's 7 months old and under warranty, it was an original LUK too. It's something to be aware of with any manual 75 / ZT - the clutch hydraulics are awful.
Max M4X WW said:
As well as on ZS180's I think?
Very much so, although on the ZS180 you're blessed with an external slave cylinder meaning replacement is much easier. It takes about 10 minutes to change a master on a ZS, and about 25 for the slave including jacking the car up. To do a master on the 75 takes around an hour, and slave requires gearbox off so maybe 6-8 depending how quick you are.There's also luckily an aftermarket clutch kit for the ZS180, unfortunately we're stuck with the standard stuff.
In brighter news, I'm now chatting to someone about injector refurbishing, so should be back to full power soon.
KardioKate said:
Looks very very nice, that.
I'm looking for one at the moment, although would really prefer the saloon.
I would have liked a saloon, however the car is used for transporting camping stuff / hundreds of laptops / baby gear / audio equipment etc, so had to be an Tourer.I'm looking for one at the moment, although would really prefer the saloon.
I actually prefer the functionality of the Tourer now, the rear window glass opens independently of the boot lid meaning all manner of **** can be quickly thrown into the boot.
Nothing much to report, she seems to be running well. Injector #2 is leaking back a little too much, causing fuel rail pressure drops occasionally. At 193k I suppose I can forgive an injector fault on a commonrail!
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