Caterham DVA Supersport 1600
Discussion
Just a bit of a placeholder really, as I was lucky enough to purchase a new car on Saturday. This now joins my 350Z in the stable, plus my girlfriend's new-shape Beetle 1.8T. Of course, this means my old Caterham is up for sale and I'll be sad to see her go, but for what I want to do over the next few years, it made so much more sense to sell and buy than upgrade the existing car. While mechanically and spec wise it's very close to what I wanted on my dream tick-list, there are plenty of things that could be addressed, depending on budget and how happy you are taking a freshly skinned and sprayed Seven on track!
The previous owner Dave has maintained a website that details the history of the car, which was really interesting and prompted me to get in touch with the original owner of my 1400. It's here: http://www.racelife.co.uk/ and it has the pictures that I don't yet, due to driving it home in the dark and the biblically wet weather that's plagued me since.
I'll do a write-up about the buying experience (ever helped rebuild part of a car before test driving and buying it? I have!) but in the mean time, thanks to Dave and his wife for letting me buy their car. I will love it.
Below is the ad for the car I bought, to give you a taste:
The previous owner Dave has maintained a website that details the history of the car, which was really interesting and prompted me to get in touch with the original owner of my 1400. It's here: http://www.racelife.co.uk/ and it has the pictures that I don't yet, due to driving it home in the dark and the biblically wet weather that's plagued me since.
I'll do a write-up about the buying experience (ever helped rebuild part of a car before test driving and buying it? I have!) but in the mean time, thanks to Dave and his wife for letting me buy their car. I will love it.
Below is the ad for the car I bought, to give you a taste:
Dave's Advert said:
Overview
A road registered, road, track and race car with a high specification and an easy upgrade path for more power if desired. With its lowered floors and tall cage (or bar) it is suitable for drivers of most heights.
I have excellent history of the car from new and can show that it has had a very thorough maintenance and parts replacement regime, so please don’t be put off by track use, it is what these cars were designed for. The new owner will thoroughly enjoy the car for the road, trackdays, sprinting or racing.
Specification highlights
- DVA built 1600 Supersport engine (January 2013) with stronger Trophy pistons, solid lifters and cams to suit, Piper verniers, dry sump and run on the latest Emerald ECU, producing 140 to 145BHP depending on the map chosen, I have the rolling road print outs to show.
- R500 light weight flywheel
- 6 speed Caterham gearbox currently away being rebuilt and refreshed by Phil at Road and Race (September 2013)
- ZF limited slip differential
- Tillet seats on runners and lowered floors
- 4-2-1 Powerspeed exhaust (no cat - not needed for MOT or racing)
History
You can read full details about the car on my website - racelife.co.uk
My car holds a lot of precious memories including my first date with my subsequent wife and at our wedding; it has been a difficult decision to sell now after 6 ½ years. It is a well known car on Blatchat and was originally raced in 1997 by Damon Dance as a 1400 Supersport in the K series Challenge.
The condition of the car is good for a race car used in all weathers. It is loved, reliable and of a desirable specification.
I have driven the car at plenty of trackdays and the odd race (class wins, class championship and a best of second place overall) with virtually no reliability issues and NEVER any contact at all with man, machine or scenery when on track.
I drive quickly but I like to think with a degree of mechanical sympathy and skill. The car has covered 45,000 miles, mostly road including a number of European tours, and a holiday to Cornwall this year. I bought the car with around 17,000 miles so have covered well over half the total. Most key components have been replaced or refreshed in that mileage.
Appearance
Colour is Red
All stickers can/will be removed and the bodywork polished and waxed again.
Carbon nose cone (Caterham Cars) plus original red nose cone provided.
Titanium 7 grille and new protective mesh to stop stone damage (hence the new radiator above)
New’ race’ lowered wing stays and front wings fitted early 2013 (for neatness, no damage) with Bighead fasteners used.
New rear bodywork following a very light touch at the rear when on the road (Photos on the website). The work was carried out by The Seven Workshop in July 2013, with the panel work being provided by Arch and the paintwork by TSK. At the same time remedial work was carried out to the chassis for corrosion, and the two small side panels replaced at extra cost as it seemed sensible to do this at the time. New rear arches and lights were fitted to further smarten the appearance.
All chassis rails that can be reached have been coated with POR15 chassis paint to prevent corrosion. The chassis is in very good order, and the small areas of corrosion coming through from the ‘grot trap’ area have been treated as best they can by removing the inner panels and treating with POR15.
RIF Carbon fibre pedal box cover
Engine
DVA Power built 1600 K series Supersport EU2 engine January 2013. The head had been ported previously by Cylinder Head Engineering, with the complete engine coming out of a low mileage 1600 Superlight purchased from a club member. Dave Andrews (DVA Power) matched the inlet ports to the 56mm throttle body. Standard sized valves, with R500 solid lifters, uprated springs, mechanical Supersport cams (slightly more aggressive than hydraulic Supersport), latest specification head gasket, Piper verniers and importantly, Trophy 160 pistons with new oil rings and matched 1600 rods. These pistons are as quiet as the standard ones, with a long life and low oil consumption but importantly are stronger than the standard pistons. At the same time a new cambelt and tensioner was fitted together with new original equipment head bolts. Dave removed the redundant engine mount and replaced with a lighter alloy blanking plate The only reason for the engine rebuild was for greater strength with the uprated pistons and also to replace the standard cams with the Supersport versions for slightly more power and torque. I planned to make the car competitive for proposed entry into the CSCC Magnificent Sevens series in class A in 2013. My plans changed completely when in January I started a new job working for the Classic Sports Car Club, as a result I can’t race within the CSCC Mag 7s!
Caterham dry sump system with purple pump and bellhousing tank, so less worry about oil pressure issues if running slicks or semi-slicks on track.
Latest Emerald K6 ecu with three separate maps (normal with 7600 rpm limit, wet weather/wife 7200 rpm and ‘security’ map. Happy to supply the cable, software and maps. Mapping by Leighton at FC Performance who knows my car and other Sevens well.
4-2-1 Powerspeed exhaust (no cat as not needed for MOT or racing), 97db static at ¾ revs.
New Radtec radiator in January 2013 with new coolant and 82 degree thermostat (replaced the old triple pass rad that was starting to age). Most hoses changed for Red Caterham silicone type.
The engine produces up to 145 bhp (could produce 170+bhp with throttle bodies and more aggressive cams to suit the solid lifters plus a suitable remap).
Transmission and drive train
6 speed Caterham gearbox, being rebuilt and refreshed by Road and Race right now.
When I put the engine and gearbox back into the car in two weeks time I will be replacing the coolant, oil, oil filter, clutch release bearing and spigot bearing as I have done any time the engine has been removed for work. The new buyer is welcome to spectate or lend a hand if they wish, a good opportunity to get to know their new car better.
R500 lightweight flywheel, has made the car that bit more responsive and free revving without affecting normal driving in town.
ZF Limited slip diff, 3.9 ratio giving perfect acceleration on road and track, although at the expense of higher revs on a motorway cruise. Recently flushed with Caterham diff oil (and lsd additive).
Handling and stopping
Bilstein shocks (road, not race type) with uprated Caterham springs and adjustable collars give a good balance between track performance and road comfort, reducing the chance of bottoming out when touring. Flat floor corner weighting carried out by myself for my weight (13 stone), the car handles exceptionally well.
Yokohama AO48 tyres with good tread, medium compound
Caterham 13” anthracite wheels, 6” width
22% quick steering rack
Standard track front, which I have always been very happy with.
Front anti roll bars – choice of Red (medium), Green (hard) and Orange (soft)
Rear anti roll bar, adjustable
Arnies front wishbone rose joints to easily change the front camber.
Uprated front and rear pads and recent standard discs
AP brake bias lever in the engine bay (out of the way of a passenger if touring)
Original solid rear brake lines replaced with Caterham braided flexi hoses late 2012
Comfort and safety
Pair of Caterham Tillet seats, both with 6 point harness (drivers side in date for racing)
Lowered floors on both sides, much better for sitting in the car, not on it, plus better for safety and comfort if 6 foot or even taller. My wife at 5’ 7” is still fine to drive the car and it is perfect for me at 6 foot.
Soft Bits for Sevens custom made half hood with deeper sides and back plus larger than normal easy-in zip should you wish to get out through the top of the car.
Tall safety devices roll cage with FIA sticker and FIA padding. I have a tall FIA roll bar which I can fit instead if you prefer, at no cost. The tall FIA bar will make it easier to get in and out of the car for road use (as pictured on the very last photo of this advert).
Momo steering wheel
Windscreen with Caterham captive nut brackets, making it easy to remove and re-add the screen.
SV side-screens (doors) with armrests, have a greater length, protecting driver and passenger from the elements that bit more than standard side-screens.
Driver and passenger clear race aero-screens (so you can swap for the summer or track)
Plumbed in Caterham 2.25l fire extinguisher (full, but just expired so needs a service for racing – about £70 usually)
FIA rain light (wired to fog lights – no way anyone will miss the car in poor weather!)
Softbits Touring tunnel bag
Caterham rubber floor mats
Mechanical oil pressure gauge from Think automotive, dial face closely matches the standard clocks (far more effective than the unreliable standard electrical oil pressure gauge)
Electrical
2 x FIA key and electrical cut out
Programmable Supersport shift light (Emerald controlled)
Starter relay mod and new starter cables which cured the ‘K Click’ starting issue
Powervamp extreme battery added in 2012 which always starts the car and is happy with road use. Smaller and lighter than a standard battery.
Quick release waterproof connectors on the headlights should you wish to remove them for racing or maintenance.
Maintenance
MOT August 2014, passed with no advisories – the MOT is carried out on visible smoke only (of which there is none)
Taxed until September 2014
Propshaft regularly greased
Very regular servicing (I can’t help tinkering), oil changes (10w40) and coolant changed (I worked for a main dealer garage until January). I have changed the oil in September, and will again change it when the engine and gearbox go back in the car in the next fortnight.
As L7 Club Wiltshire South area co-representative I have been fortunate to have met and made friends with a great bunch of ladies and gents, and we have often worked on each others cars where required.
Huge file of receipts, plus original build manual.
Why am I selling?
Both myself and my wife Beth have changed jobs and our house in the past 18 months. With it comes a loss of garage (car port instead) and different requirements from our cars. I no longer have a tow car or company car and have found that every social Caterham event I’ve wanted to get to this year has clashed with work which is frustrating. I can’t see myself racing any car for at least another two years and really fancy an aircooled 911 for the road, it’s a difficult decision to sell with such a close connection to my car.
Summary
A great little car that can be driven and enjoyed as it is with all major mechanical work having been carried out, or you could have the side panels, scuttle and bonnet replaced if you insist on a perfect looking car to match the rear end, maybe even change the colour if desired at the same time? As mentioned above the gearbox is currently away being refreshed with parts replaced, so the car will be available for demonstrations or to be driven away in the next two or three weeks.
The car is based in the Bath/Wiltshire area (currently as pictured under cover, at a Seven members farm/workshop) and could be delivered for a small cost (Brian James trailer and spares available for sale to the buyer by separate negotiation). I am happy to spend time with the new buyer explaining in detail the car and what has been replaced or refreshed as well as how to carry out basic maintenance so they don’t feel uncertain or daunted by the car. I am a qualified ARDS instructor and can give the new owner a lesson or demonstration at a trackday if desired.
Feel free to contact me for any further information.
Thank you for reading, David Smitheram (Fishy Dave)
(note that photos below were taken at various times over the past years, and the cars specification and appearance has changed and improved, please rely on the written specification or speak to me for clarity)
A road registered, road, track and race car with a high specification and an easy upgrade path for more power if desired. With its lowered floors and tall cage (or bar) it is suitable for drivers of most heights.
I have excellent history of the car from new and can show that it has had a very thorough maintenance and parts replacement regime, so please don’t be put off by track use, it is what these cars were designed for. The new owner will thoroughly enjoy the car for the road, trackdays, sprinting or racing.
Specification highlights
- DVA built 1600 Supersport engine (January 2013) with stronger Trophy pistons, solid lifters and cams to suit, Piper verniers, dry sump and run on the latest Emerald ECU, producing 140 to 145BHP depending on the map chosen, I have the rolling road print outs to show.
- R500 light weight flywheel
- 6 speed Caterham gearbox currently away being rebuilt and refreshed by Phil at Road and Race (September 2013)
- ZF limited slip differential
- Tillet seats on runners and lowered floors
- 4-2-1 Powerspeed exhaust (no cat - not needed for MOT or racing)
History
You can read full details about the car on my website - racelife.co.uk
My car holds a lot of precious memories including my first date with my subsequent wife and at our wedding; it has been a difficult decision to sell now after 6 ½ years. It is a well known car on Blatchat and was originally raced in 1997 by Damon Dance as a 1400 Supersport in the K series Challenge.
The condition of the car is good for a race car used in all weathers. It is loved, reliable and of a desirable specification.
I have driven the car at plenty of trackdays and the odd race (class wins, class championship and a best of second place overall) with virtually no reliability issues and NEVER any contact at all with man, machine or scenery when on track.
I drive quickly but I like to think with a degree of mechanical sympathy and skill. The car has covered 45,000 miles, mostly road including a number of European tours, and a holiday to Cornwall this year. I bought the car with around 17,000 miles so have covered well over half the total. Most key components have been replaced or refreshed in that mileage.
Appearance
Colour is Red
All stickers can/will be removed and the bodywork polished and waxed again.
Carbon nose cone (Caterham Cars) plus original red nose cone provided.
Titanium 7 grille and new protective mesh to stop stone damage (hence the new radiator above)
New’ race’ lowered wing stays and front wings fitted early 2013 (for neatness, no damage) with Bighead fasteners used.
New rear bodywork following a very light touch at the rear when on the road (Photos on the website). The work was carried out by The Seven Workshop in July 2013, with the panel work being provided by Arch and the paintwork by TSK. At the same time remedial work was carried out to the chassis for corrosion, and the two small side panels replaced at extra cost as it seemed sensible to do this at the time. New rear arches and lights were fitted to further smarten the appearance.
All chassis rails that can be reached have been coated with POR15 chassis paint to prevent corrosion. The chassis is in very good order, and the small areas of corrosion coming through from the ‘grot trap’ area have been treated as best they can by removing the inner panels and treating with POR15.
RIF Carbon fibre pedal box cover
Engine
DVA Power built 1600 K series Supersport EU2 engine January 2013. The head had been ported previously by Cylinder Head Engineering, with the complete engine coming out of a low mileage 1600 Superlight purchased from a club member. Dave Andrews (DVA Power) matched the inlet ports to the 56mm throttle body. Standard sized valves, with R500 solid lifters, uprated springs, mechanical Supersport cams (slightly more aggressive than hydraulic Supersport), latest specification head gasket, Piper verniers and importantly, Trophy 160 pistons with new oil rings and matched 1600 rods. These pistons are as quiet as the standard ones, with a long life and low oil consumption but importantly are stronger than the standard pistons. At the same time a new cambelt and tensioner was fitted together with new original equipment head bolts. Dave removed the redundant engine mount and replaced with a lighter alloy blanking plate The only reason for the engine rebuild was for greater strength with the uprated pistons and also to replace the standard cams with the Supersport versions for slightly more power and torque. I planned to make the car competitive for proposed entry into the CSCC Magnificent Sevens series in class A in 2013. My plans changed completely when in January I started a new job working for the Classic Sports Car Club, as a result I can’t race within the CSCC Mag 7s!
Caterham dry sump system with purple pump and bellhousing tank, so less worry about oil pressure issues if running slicks or semi-slicks on track.
Latest Emerald K6 ecu with three separate maps (normal with 7600 rpm limit, wet weather/wife 7200 rpm and ‘security’ map. Happy to supply the cable, software and maps. Mapping by Leighton at FC Performance who knows my car and other Sevens well.
4-2-1 Powerspeed exhaust (no cat as not needed for MOT or racing), 97db static at ¾ revs.
New Radtec radiator in January 2013 with new coolant and 82 degree thermostat (replaced the old triple pass rad that was starting to age). Most hoses changed for Red Caterham silicone type.
The engine produces up to 145 bhp (could produce 170+bhp with throttle bodies and more aggressive cams to suit the solid lifters plus a suitable remap).
Transmission and drive train
6 speed Caterham gearbox, being rebuilt and refreshed by Road and Race right now.
When I put the engine and gearbox back into the car in two weeks time I will be replacing the coolant, oil, oil filter, clutch release bearing and spigot bearing as I have done any time the engine has been removed for work. The new buyer is welcome to spectate or lend a hand if they wish, a good opportunity to get to know their new car better.
R500 lightweight flywheel, has made the car that bit more responsive and free revving without affecting normal driving in town.
ZF Limited slip diff, 3.9 ratio giving perfect acceleration on road and track, although at the expense of higher revs on a motorway cruise. Recently flushed with Caterham diff oil (and lsd additive).
Handling and stopping
Bilstein shocks (road, not race type) with uprated Caterham springs and adjustable collars give a good balance between track performance and road comfort, reducing the chance of bottoming out when touring. Flat floor corner weighting carried out by myself for my weight (13 stone), the car handles exceptionally well.
Yokohama AO48 tyres with good tread, medium compound
Caterham 13” anthracite wheels, 6” width
22% quick steering rack
Standard track front, which I have always been very happy with.
Front anti roll bars – choice of Red (medium), Green (hard) and Orange (soft)
Rear anti roll bar, adjustable
Arnies front wishbone rose joints to easily change the front camber.
Uprated front and rear pads and recent standard discs
AP brake bias lever in the engine bay (out of the way of a passenger if touring)
Original solid rear brake lines replaced with Caterham braided flexi hoses late 2012
Comfort and safety
Pair of Caterham Tillet seats, both with 6 point harness (drivers side in date for racing)
Lowered floors on both sides, much better for sitting in the car, not on it, plus better for safety and comfort if 6 foot or even taller. My wife at 5’ 7” is still fine to drive the car and it is perfect for me at 6 foot.
Soft Bits for Sevens custom made half hood with deeper sides and back plus larger than normal easy-in zip should you wish to get out through the top of the car.
Tall safety devices roll cage with FIA sticker and FIA padding. I have a tall FIA roll bar which I can fit instead if you prefer, at no cost. The tall FIA bar will make it easier to get in and out of the car for road use (as pictured on the very last photo of this advert).
Momo steering wheel
Windscreen with Caterham captive nut brackets, making it easy to remove and re-add the screen.
SV side-screens (doors) with armrests, have a greater length, protecting driver and passenger from the elements that bit more than standard side-screens.
Driver and passenger clear race aero-screens (so you can swap for the summer or track)
Plumbed in Caterham 2.25l fire extinguisher (full, but just expired so needs a service for racing – about £70 usually)
FIA rain light (wired to fog lights – no way anyone will miss the car in poor weather!)
Softbits Touring tunnel bag
Caterham rubber floor mats
Mechanical oil pressure gauge from Think automotive, dial face closely matches the standard clocks (far more effective than the unreliable standard electrical oil pressure gauge)
Electrical
2 x FIA key and electrical cut out
Programmable Supersport shift light (Emerald controlled)
Starter relay mod and new starter cables which cured the ‘K Click’ starting issue
Powervamp extreme battery added in 2012 which always starts the car and is happy with road use. Smaller and lighter than a standard battery.
Quick release waterproof connectors on the headlights should you wish to remove them for racing or maintenance.
Maintenance
MOT August 2014, passed with no advisories – the MOT is carried out on visible smoke only (of which there is none)
Taxed until September 2014
Propshaft regularly greased
Very regular servicing (I can’t help tinkering), oil changes (10w40) and coolant changed (I worked for a main dealer garage until January). I have changed the oil in September, and will again change it when the engine and gearbox go back in the car in the next fortnight.
As L7 Club Wiltshire South area co-representative I have been fortunate to have met and made friends with a great bunch of ladies and gents, and we have often worked on each others cars where required.
Huge file of receipts, plus original build manual.
Why am I selling?
Both myself and my wife Beth have changed jobs and our house in the past 18 months. With it comes a loss of garage (car port instead) and different requirements from our cars. I no longer have a tow car or company car and have found that every social Caterham event I’ve wanted to get to this year has clashed with work which is frustrating. I can’t see myself racing any car for at least another two years and really fancy an aircooled 911 for the road, it’s a difficult decision to sell with such a close connection to my car.
Summary
A great little car that can be driven and enjoyed as it is with all major mechanical work having been carried out, or you could have the side panels, scuttle and bonnet replaced if you insist on a perfect looking car to match the rear end, maybe even change the colour if desired at the same time? As mentioned above the gearbox is currently away being refreshed with parts replaced, so the car will be available for demonstrations or to be driven away in the next two or three weeks.
The car is based in the Bath/Wiltshire area (currently as pictured under cover, at a Seven members farm/workshop) and could be delivered for a small cost (Brian James trailer and spares available for sale to the buyer by separate negotiation). I am happy to spend time with the new buyer explaining in detail the car and what has been replaced or refreshed as well as how to carry out basic maintenance so they don’t feel uncertain or daunted by the car. I am a qualified ARDS instructor and can give the new owner a lesson or demonstration at a trackday if desired.
Feel free to contact me for any further information.
Thank you for reading, David Smitheram (Fishy Dave)
(note that photos below were taken at various times over the past years, and the cars specification and appearance has changed and improved, please rely on the written specification or speak to me for clarity)
Edited by Smitters on Friday 10th March 11:49
Hi Danny,
Just added this video at last, having fun in 'our' car. Only took my four years to get around to posting this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6m0GyPtufM
Cheers, Dave
Just added this video at last, having fun in 'our' car. Only took my four years to get around to posting this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6m0GyPtufM
Cheers, Dave
Slightly overdue update, but at least something of significance.
After a few years of hit and miss motoring - some electrical issues caused an intermittent fault that was a b
d to diagnose but left me stranded more than half the time - I looked quite seriously at selling or swapping for an Elise. However, the fault got fixed, and I got a few trackdays in without incident and hey ho I was smitten again.
Enjoying Abingdon:
There's a long list of things I want to do to the car, not least tidying up the bodywork, but fundamentally I bought a car that was tatty (I don't think Dave will mind that description) but mechanically sound. Any money would be spent on mechanicals first and looks second. A shame then that it started making a very odd rattling noise at Abingdon this autumn. Fortunately for me, I had recently visited PT Sports Cars in Windsor (no association, etc. etc.) for a geo set-up and cake morning, and knew they were nice chaps. We'd already discussed their overhauling the mixed spec suspension following discovery of a geo that can only be described as eclectic. "Good for oval racing" was one verdict... so it seemed the smart thing to do was get the car to them, diagnose the issue, fix that and if funds were left, take a look at the suspension.
Here is where project scope creep comes in. Ian at PT had some second hand narrow track dampers for a good price. I saw an opportunity to upgrade the handling quite significantly, for a reasonable sum. So reasonable, that I rang Simon at Meteor Motorsport to see about Powerflex bushes while we were at it. He gave me a good (in fact, comprehensive doesn't cover it) run through of the pros and cons of what I was planning, and suggested a couple of alternatives.
And then I sent Ian some photos of my chassis, just to make sure the Billies on the shelf fitted. They didn't. Oh. There was some wizardry via phone, it all gets a bit hazy, but the long story short is there are Nitron NTR1s heading from Wales to Windsor and I rather hope to have transformed the car's somewhat wayward handling traits. I think this means I have to keep the car for a while now...
I can also heartily recommend both Ian at PT and Simon at Meteor, who have both been great to deal with.
ETA - this thread is useless without pictures...
After a few years of hit and miss motoring - some electrical issues caused an intermittent fault that was a b
d to diagnose but left me stranded more than half the time - I looked quite seriously at selling or swapping for an Elise. However, the fault got fixed, and I got a few trackdays in without incident and hey ho I was smitten again.Enjoying Abingdon:
There's a long list of things I want to do to the car, not least tidying up the bodywork, but fundamentally I bought a car that was tatty (I don't think Dave will mind that description) but mechanically sound. Any money would be spent on mechanicals first and looks second. A shame then that it started making a very odd rattling noise at Abingdon this autumn. Fortunately for me, I had recently visited PT Sports Cars in Windsor (no association, etc. etc.) for a geo set-up and cake morning, and knew they were nice chaps. We'd already discussed their overhauling the mixed spec suspension following discovery of a geo that can only be described as eclectic. "Good for oval racing" was one verdict... so it seemed the smart thing to do was get the car to them, diagnose the issue, fix that and if funds were left, take a look at the suspension.
Here is where project scope creep comes in. Ian at PT had some second hand narrow track dampers for a good price. I saw an opportunity to upgrade the handling quite significantly, for a reasonable sum. So reasonable, that I rang Simon at Meteor Motorsport to see about Powerflex bushes while we were at it. He gave me a good (in fact, comprehensive doesn't cover it) run through of the pros and cons of what I was planning, and suggested a couple of alternatives.
And then I sent Ian some photos of my chassis, just to make sure the Billies on the shelf fitted. They didn't. Oh. There was some wizardry via phone, it all gets a bit hazy, but the long story short is there are Nitron NTR1s heading from Wales to Windsor and I rather hope to have transformed the car's somewhat wayward handling traits. I think this means I have to keep the car for a while now...
I can also heartily recommend both Ian at PT and Simon at Meteor, who have both been great to deal with.
ETA - this thread is useless without pictures...
Edited by Smitters on Wednesday 23 November 09:56
SidewaysSi said:
Will be interested to see what you think of Nitrons on the Seven. I find the Bilsteins on my car to be brilliant on road whilst the NTRs on my Elise are a bit too firm.
I'm quite looking forward to seeing too - I am mostly driving to, or on track, so firm doesn't worry me per say, as long as they're not unsophisticated. Meteor spec their own valving from Nitron, so these are not just Caterham specific, but Simon's own specs (inc springs), which have evolved over time. I run 13" wheels too, so there's a fair bit of tyre wall, but I'll have to wait and see. As they're adjustable in a way a simpleton (i.e. me) cannot completely screw them up, as long as I note down the desired settings for road and track, all should be well.The car is an N reg, so some parts are getting on a bit. I've been trying to dig into the car's history a little and it turns out before Fishy Dave named the car Colin, it was knows as Battered Old SuperSport (promising name...) and lived out in France, which was where Dave had bought the car. A bit of googling revealed some old threads mentioning the car, but also (and I hope they don't mind me reproducing the image) a cartoon version of the car on Angus and Tessa's website, drawn by Angus as a thank you to Steve, the then owner.
Angus and Tessa's mycaterham site
I even found reference to BOSS in a rebuild page on what looks to be a great site for Seveners in France... http://www.lotus7news.co.uk/209.html ... A 2007 version of my car is about 3/4 of the way down. Nothing like a bit of Wednesday nostalgia.
Edited by Smitters on Wednesday 23 November 10:22
So, I left it pretty much here last time:
So, in the end the dodgy rattle was down to a broken clutch centre plate, though the release bearing was shot too, I assume because of a now unbalanced clutch. It shouldn’t be wear and tear since it went in only a few thousand miles previous when I bought the car.
I must hold my hand up here and say I am not the most mechanically inclined person and since I am basically smacking the car around a track a lot of the time, I like to know it’s safe. I always ask if the mechanic working on the car can make a list of things that could do with attention, with varying results. Dave at PT comes in at the ‘attentive’ end of the spectrum.
Already on the worklist was:
* Remove and refit the engine for clutch parts
* Remove front suspension parts and re-powdercoat
* Remove and refit all bushes, replacing with a Powerflex kit sourced from Simon at Meteor Motorsport
* Remove and refit suspension, replacing some 90’s Bilsteins with Nitron NTR 1s, valved to Simon’s specifications
* Full geo and corner-weight
Gulp.
Dave was less than complimentary about the state of the wiring, an entirely fair point. In his defence, Stevie Wonder needed a job while that singing career took off... We agreed a tidy up, which included a new crank sensor and a play with the dodgy idling on start-up.
Then there was the leaky fuel pipe. Yeah, not a lot of discussion there. Done.
A radius arm and some spherical joints to replace knackered and cracked bits. Again, it made sense.
The steering was very heavy and needed some attention… fine by me… arm-pump on track isn’t funny.
The real kicker though was the de dion tube. Which was described as the most corroded they’d ever seen. I googled “Caterham de dion failure” and immediately wished I hadn’t ( Google search ). There’s a thread on PH that describes the issues, but to summarise:
And this is what mine looked like…
Apparently PT saw five drivers go through nine de dion failures in one season. So again, it made sense. I also asked PT to treat the inside of the tube for a bit of extra longevity. And as the de dion was out and there was a bush going in anyway, plus I knew the old one had a slight bend, I bought a new A-Frame. Which, incidentally, is already rusting. Cheers Caterham, for your utterly dismal quality levels. I love the cars. I do not understand how they get away with such poor product QC.
Once the work was done I arranged collection with Ian and had an enjoyable time at PT drinking coffee and running through the changes to the car. All the old parts were boxed in the passenger footwell ready and no question was too silly, or too much time to explain. I did struggle to take everything in, so Ian and Dave also gave me a run through the geometry data over the phone a week later.
Despite it pouring with January rain, and the drive home being mainly the M4, the moment I turned the wheel of the car it was clear that with the recommendations from Simon at Meteor, plus the hard work at PT, I had a completely different car. I cannot recommend either company enough.
All that was required now was a trackday to get to grips with it properly. Somewhere to ease into things. Somewhere with nice, forgiving corners. Mind you, Castle Combe is just down the road. Sod it, I’ll go there…
Some useful links:
PT Sports Cars http://www.ptsportscars.com/
Meteor Motorsport - Suspension https://www.meteormotorsport.com/suspension/
Meteor Motorsport - Powerflex Bushes https://www.meteormotorsport.com/caterham/caterham...
Nitron http://www.nitron.co.uk/catalogue_main.php?brandpa...
Smitters said:
Here is where project scope creep comes in. Ian at PT had some second hand narrow track dampers for a good price. I saw an opportunity to upgrade the handling quite significantly, for a reasonable sum. So reasonable, that I rang Simon at Meteor Motorsport to see about Powerflex bushes while we were at it. He gave me a good (in fact, comprehensive doesn't cover it) run through of the pros and cons of what I was planning, and suggested a couple of alternatives.
And then I sent Ian some photos of my chassis, just to make sure the Billies on the shelf fitted. They didn't. Oh. There was some wizardry via phone, it all gets a bit hazy, but the long story short is there are Nitron NTR1s heading from Wales to Windsor and I rather hope to have transformed the car's somewhat wayward handling traits. I think this means I have to keep the car for a while now...
I entirely blame the free cake offered by PT on the geo set-up day for everything that follows...And then I sent Ian some photos of my chassis, just to make sure the Billies on the shelf fitted. They didn't. Oh. There was some wizardry via phone, it all gets a bit hazy, but the long story short is there are Nitron NTR1s heading from Wales to Windsor and I rather hope to have transformed the car's somewhat wayward handling traits. I think this means I have to keep the car for a while now...
So, in the end the dodgy rattle was down to a broken clutch centre plate, though the release bearing was shot too, I assume because of a now unbalanced clutch. It shouldn’t be wear and tear since it went in only a few thousand miles previous when I bought the car.
I must hold my hand up here and say I am not the most mechanically inclined person and since I am basically smacking the car around a track a lot of the time, I like to know it’s safe. I always ask if the mechanic working on the car can make a list of things that could do with attention, with varying results. Dave at PT comes in at the ‘attentive’ end of the spectrum.
Already on the worklist was:
* Remove and refit the engine for clutch parts
* Remove front suspension parts and re-powdercoat
* Remove and refit all bushes, replacing with a Powerflex kit sourced from Simon at Meteor Motorsport
* Remove and refit suspension, replacing some 90’s Bilsteins with Nitron NTR 1s, valved to Simon’s specifications
* Full geo and corner-weight
Gulp.
Dave was less than complimentary about the state of the wiring, an entirely fair point. In his defence, Stevie Wonder needed a job while that singing career took off... We agreed a tidy up, which included a new crank sensor and a play with the dodgy idling on start-up.
Then there was the leaky fuel pipe. Yeah, not a lot of discussion there. Done.
A radius arm and some spherical joints to replace knackered and cracked bits. Again, it made sense.
The steering was very heavy and needed some attention… fine by me… arm-pump on track isn’t funny.
The real kicker though was the de dion tube. Which was described as the most corroded they’d ever seen. I googled “Caterham de dion failure” and immediately wished I hadn’t ( Google search ). There’s a thread on PH that describes the issues, but to summarise:
downsman said:
Just for those who haven't read the excellent thread on Blatchat about De Dion tube failures.
The earlier De Dion tubes that tend to fail have different designs, but one thing in common, they use 12 gauge steel tube.
Current tubes are 10 gauge and consequently much stronger and heavier. I don't know when they swapped to the heavier gauge steel but it was many years ago.
If the tube has failed, and is of the earlier thin wall type, it seems a bad idea to even consider welding it up.
Even adding plates is just going to move the stresses along to where the thinner steel starts again.
When building my Seven there was early surface corrosion on the unpainted inner surface, I sprayed cavity wax in from both ends, but I am sure most tubes don't get this. A bit of condensation in there and the tube will corrode from the inside out. If I had an older Seven with the thin wall tube, I would order a new one now and fit it. £300 for peace of mind seems a small price to pay.
And some pics…The earlier De Dion tubes that tend to fail have different designs, but one thing in common, they use 12 gauge steel tube.
Current tubes are 10 gauge and consequently much stronger and heavier. I don't know when they swapped to the heavier gauge steel but it was many years ago.
If the tube has failed, and is of the earlier thin wall type, it seems a bad idea to even consider welding it up.
Even adding plates is just going to move the stresses along to where the thinner steel starts again.
When building my Seven there was early surface corrosion on the unpainted inner surface, I sprayed cavity wax in from both ends, but I am sure most tubes don't get this. A bit of condensation in there and the tube will corrode from the inside out. If I had an older Seven with the thin wall tube, I would order a new one now and fit it. £300 for peace of mind seems a small price to pay.
Gingerbread Man said:
Apparently PT saw five drivers go through nine de dion failures in one season. So again, it made sense. I also asked PT to treat the inside of the tube for a bit of extra longevity. And as the de dion was out and there was a bush going in anyway, plus I knew the old one had a slight bend, I bought a new A-Frame. Which, incidentally, is already rusting. Cheers Caterham, for your utterly dismal quality levels. I love the cars. I do not understand how they get away with such poor product QC.
Once the work was done I arranged collection with Ian and had an enjoyable time at PT drinking coffee and running through the changes to the car. All the old parts were boxed in the passenger footwell ready and no question was too silly, or too much time to explain. I did struggle to take everything in, so Ian and Dave also gave me a run through the geometry data over the phone a week later.
Despite it pouring with January rain, and the drive home being mainly the M4, the moment I turned the wheel of the car it was clear that with the recommendations from Simon at Meteor, plus the hard work at PT, I had a completely different car. I cannot recommend either company enough.
All that was required now was a trackday to get to grips with it properly. Somewhere to ease into things. Somewhere with nice, forgiving corners. Mind you, Castle Combe is just down the road. Sod it, I’ll go there…
Some useful links:
PT Sports Cars http://www.ptsportscars.com/
Meteor Motorsport - Suspension https://www.meteormotorsport.com/suspension/
Meteor Motorsport - Powerflex Bushes https://www.meteormotorsport.com/caterham/caterham...
Nitron http://www.nitron.co.uk/catalogue_main.php?brandpa...
Hi Danny,
Blimey!!! I feel sad now, sorry you've had issues.
The rust doesn't surprise me, it was pretty bad in places when I bought it, but the first two years I drove it year round so it saw its fair share of salt. The month after bringing it back to the UK I found a fuel leak from the fuel filter which had stripped off what was left of the powder coat from the right hand side of the Dedion.
I also agree with you about the electrics, they worked but were not tidy. I hadn't really touched them other than changing the crispy lead to the starter motor, quick release for the headlights, plugging in the Emerald and taking the odd wire for power for a shift light and data logger. Sorry to hear you'd had intermittent problems, they're the worst kind.
I'd flat floored the car many times and had the handling spot on for my handling preference (pointy/oversteer), so it ran more rake than many other Caterham I saw. You mentioned oval racing so I assume it was some way off ideal?!
The clutch seems strange, I've changed half a dozen of them over the years on friends cars and that was a new AP kit which we fitted together. The clutch release bearing and spigot bearings fail from time to time but not the centre plate, very unusual with such low mileage, I never had one fail.
When I bought the car known as 'Battered Old Supersport' unseen in France I kind of expected some issues (and certainly experienced them), putting lots of things right/upgrading over the 6+ years, it looks like you've continued that trend!
Keep in touch, regards, Dave
Blimey!!! I feel sad now, sorry you've had issues.
The rust doesn't surprise me, it was pretty bad in places when I bought it, but the first two years I drove it year round so it saw its fair share of salt. The month after bringing it back to the UK I found a fuel leak from the fuel filter which had stripped off what was left of the powder coat from the right hand side of the Dedion.
I also agree with you about the electrics, they worked but were not tidy. I hadn't really touched them other than changing the crispy lead to the starter motor, quick release for the headlights, plugging in the Emerald and taking the odd wire for power for a shift light and data logger. Sorry to hear you'd had intermittent problems, they're the worst kind.
I'd flat floored the car many times and had the handling spot on for my handling preference (pointy/oversteer), so it ran more rake than many other Caterham I saw. You mentioned oval racing so I assume it was some way off ideal?!
The clutch seems strange, I've changed half a dozen of them over the years on friends cars and that was a new AP kit which we fitted together. The clutch release bearing and spigot bearings fail from time to time but not the centre plate, very unusual with such low mileage, I never had one fail.
When I bought the car known as 'Battered Old Supersport' unseen in France I kind of expected some issues (and certainly experienced them), putting lots of things right/upgrading over the 6+ years, it looks like you've continued that trend!
Keep in touch, regards, Dave
Cheers Dave, I wouldn't worry - no issue arose because of anything done, or not done to the car - just a run of bad luck.
It's pretty eye opening to see these clinical race car builds in the workshop - super-smart wiring and the like. It gives me something to aspire to. The surface rust issue won't go away. I POR15 a section of the chassis I can reach each winter, rather like a mini-Forth Rail Bridge, so at some point I'll start again!. Ultimately I do plan a reskin and I'll redo the entire loom at that point, deleting everything that's a relic from the 1400 and getting it all sorted in my head too. Having not really looked at what's behind the loom wrap, it's hard to know what's going where sometimes. Thanks for the reminder about shift lights though - that explains a couple of terminals under the dash - I'd totally forgotten they would be there.
The electrical issue was traced back to a loose connection in the ECU multiplug. It was discovered after we lost all patience and started rattling and waggling wires by hand to try and replicate the issues I had while driving, which never surfaced when sitting still - going over bumps being the apparent cause. It drove me mental and cost me a couple of trackdays by breaking down on the way there!
The ride-heights were consistent with what we'd set when you flat-floored it for me, with a high rake and a tail led attitude - the issue was with the toe, camber and castor settings, especially rear toe (both left...). Essentially, a lot of the hardware was tired, which allowed the slack into the system. Rather than try and set geometry on kit that wouldn't hold true, I decided to do a big overhaul. I do wonder if the de dion had started to warp slightly.
I think the clutch was just one of those things - one of the spring carriers broke, so the spring was loose. I would expect this imbalance was what killed the CBR. Again, nothing we did.
Watch this space for this year's upgrades. Time willing, I've got quite a list to complete.
It's pretty eye opening to see these clinical race car builds in the workshop - super-smart wiring and the like. It gives me something to aspire to. The surface rust issue won't go away. I POR15 a section of the chassis I can reach each winter, rather like a mini-Forth Rail Bridge, so at some point I'll start again!. Ultimately I do plan a reskin and I'll redo the entire loom at that point, deleting everything that's a relic from the 1400 and getting it all sorted in my head too. Having not really looked at what's behind the loom wrap, it's hard to know what's going where sometimes. Thanks for the reminder about shift lights though - that explains a couple of terminals under the dash - I'd totally forgotten they would be there.
The electrical issue was traced back to a loose connection in the ECU multiplug. It was discovered after we lost all patience and started rattling and waggling wires by hand to try and replicate the issues I had while driving, which never surfaced when sitting still - going over bumps being the apparent cause. It drove me mental and cost me a couple of trackdays by breaking down on the way there!
The ride-heights were consistent with what we'd set when you flat-floored it for me, with a high rake and a tail led attitude - the issue was with the toe, camber and castor settings, especially rear toe (both left...). Essentially, a lot of the hardware was tired, which allowed the slack into the system. Rather than try and set geometry on kit that wouldn't hold true, I decided to do a big overhaul. I do wonder if the de dion had started to warp slightly.
I think the clutch was just one of those things - one of the spring carriers broke, so the spring was loose. I would expect this imbalance was what killed the CBR. Again, nothing we did.
Watch this space for this year's upgrades. Time willing, I've got quite a list to complete.
Castle Combe Test Day
With Combe on my doorstep and WAM having a trackday at the end of February, I paid my pennies and settled down to impatiently wait for the day to dawn crisp and blue-skied. It dawned, but it was neither crisp, nor blue-skied. Bugger.
I’ve posted before about WAM trackdays, but I really am impressed with how Phil runs his day. The fact that, despite pretty greasy conditions, there were no red flags shows the type of day he runs and the like-minded folks it attracts. This was run over three sessions, and I’d say about 70% of the cars were Hondas, which speaks to Phil’s background. His own Accord race car was out later in the day.
Session 1 Sighting Lap Queue – don’t be fooled by the Skoda up front – that was the pace car. Saxo outnumbered 4:1 - pic courtesy of MotorV8 Media
The Pink Panther – pic courtesy of MotorV8 Media
My intentions for the day were pretty simple. Get out for the first session with the base settings and shake things down, then come back to the paddock and assess everything, count the wheels, make sure the oils was in the engine and not outside it, and so on. All went well, though I felt pretty outnumbered by the VTEC crowd. Who were all very nice. I also had a good chat with a few guys next door in an Elise, a pair of green and silver MX-5s that looked decidedly non-standard, a pair of really nice looking Clios and a Megane 250 Cup.
Outnumbered!
Having reassured myself the car was bolted together and holding fluids, I pushed on a bit in the second and thirds sessions.
Aiming for a late apex at Tower, instead of an early apex and a wall.
I’d been advised to soften off whichever end was sliding and as I found the front understeering slightly, I duly wound off the fronts by one click. Ridiculously easy to do... Makes a drastic difference if you’re not paying attention…
Having set myself up for the fourth session, I found it was in fact lunchtime. Ah well – proper preparation prevents piss-poor performance, so smug I was ready for the first afternoon session nice and early I set off to peruse the paddock and grab some food.
Then it rained. And I forgot I had set the car up to slide more at the back. Until I was in the queue for my session. Whoops. Still. Nothing ventured nothing… Jesus! Why is it wheelspinning in sixth? Jesus! Oversteer, everywhere…
After a moment too many at Camp (as opposed to too many camp moments…) I called it a day and came in. There was a change of underpants and some patching-up of the nibbles I had inadvertently taken out of the Tillet to be done, after which, I rebalanced the front and rear, and softened things up. Given Nitrons adjust over 25 stages, with -10 being hard enough for most tracks and -18 the recommended road position, I cannot imagine how stiff 0 is! I set the car at -12 all round and tried to meditate my heartrate back below 200 bpm.
Tent Ahoy! Pic shamelessly lifted from Ben Rutter on Facebook.
At this point, I decided whatever happened, this was my last session. Sure, it’s tempting to get every last lap out of a day, but I was getting tired, I was rusty from a few months off and I had some answers as to how well the car was performing. I also decided if I had more than three big twitches, I’d call it a day early – no sense in chasing a set-up when tired and in conditions I’m not that good in. As it was, the balance came back and the softness worked a bit. I could have gone a couple more clicks to be honest, but I was happy to have re-established manners in the car.
Some useful links:
WAM Trackdays http://www.wamtrackdays.co.uk/
MotorV8 Media - WAM Album https://www.facebook.com/pg/MOTORV8-MEDIA-26684993...
With Combe on my doorstep and WAM having a trackday at the end of February, I paid my pennies and settled down to impatiently wait for the day to dawn crisp and blue-skied. It dawned, but it was neither crisp, nor blue-skied. Bugger.
I’ve posted before about WAM trackdays, but I really am impressed with how Phil runs his day. The fact that, despite pretty greasy conditions, there were no red flags shows the type of day he runs and the like-minded folks it attracts. This was run over three sessions, and I’d say about 70% of the cars were Hondas, which speaks to Phil’s background. His own Accord race car was out later in the day.
Session 1 Sighting Lap Queue – don’t be fooled by the Skoda up front – that was the pace car. Saxo outnumbered 4:1 - pic courtesy of MotorV8 Media
The Pink Panther – pic courtesy of MotorV8 Media
My intentions for the day were pretty simple. Get out for the first session with the base settings and shake things down, then come back to the paddock and assess everything, count the wheels, make sure the oils was in the engine and not outside it, and so on. All went well, though I felt pretty outnumbered by the VTEC crowd. Who were all very nice. I also had a good chat with a few guys next door in an Elise, a pair of green and silver MX-5s that looked decidedly non-standard, a pair of really nice looking Clios and a Megane 250 Cup.
Outnumbered!
Having reassured myself the car was bolted together and holding fluids, I pushed on a bit in the second and thirds sessions.
Aiming for a late apex at Tower, instead of an early apex and a wall.
I’d been advised to soften off whichever end was sliding and as I found the front understeering slightly, I duly wound off the fronts by one click. Ridiculously easy to do... Makes a drastic difference if you’re not paying attention…
Having set myself up for the fourth session, I found it was in fact lunchtime. Ah well – proper preparation prevents piss-poor performance, so smug I was ready for the first afternoon session nice and early I set off to peruse the paddock and grab some food.
Then it rained. And I forgot I had set the car up to slide more at the back. Until I was in the queue for my session. Whoops. Still. Nothing ventured nothing… Jesus! Why is it wheelspinning in sixth? Jesus! Oversteer, everywhere…
After a moment too many at Camp (as opposed to too many camp moments…) I called it a day and came in. There was a change of underpants and some patching-up of the nibbles I had inadvertently taken out of the Tillet to be done, after which, I rebalanced the front and rear, and softened things up. Given Nitrons adjust over 25 stages, with -10 being hard enough for most tracks and -18 the recommended road position, I cannot imagine how stiff 0 is! I set the car at -12 all round and tried to meditate my heartrate back below 200 bpm.
Tent Ahoy! Pic shamelessly lifted from Ben Rutter on Facebook.
At this point, I decided whatever happened, this was my last session. Sure, it’s tempting to get every last lap out of a day, but I was getting tired, I was rusty from a few months off and I had some answers as to how well the car was performing. I also decided if I had more than three big twitches, I’d call it a day early – no sense in chasing a set-up when tired and in conditions I’m not that good in. As it was, the balance came back and the softness worked a bit. I could have gone a couple more clicks to be honest, but I was happy to have re-established manners in the car.
Some useful links:
WAM Trackdays http://www.wamtrackdays.co.uk/
MotorV8 Media - WAM Album https://www.facebook.com/pg/MOTORV8-MEDIA-26684993...
Edited by Smitters on Monday 13th March 10:02
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