VW Golf MK5 GTI
Discussion
Hi boys and girls,
To briefly introduce myself; I'm Tom, 22, from South Shields. I am a Communications Manager for BT Global Services and run my own motoring website (although I do not have much time to keep this up to date!).
I'm running a 2006 1.4 Golf S and a 2001 BMW Z3 2.2 Sport.
That said, I'm looking to replace the Golf with a MK5 GTI.
I've read some horror stories about turbos coking up and needing several replacements. As I'm not mechanically minded, is this caused by infrequent usage and poor mechanical sympathy or a history of a lead-footed driver?
Hoping you can give me a starter-for-ten on what to look for and checkpoints during the buying process of my GTI.
(looking for a 3-door, with manual 'box, in black, grey, or that dark metallic blue - budget isn't an issue as of June/July this year).
I look forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences.
Best Regards
Tom
To briefly introduce myself; I'm Tom, 22, from South Shields. I am a Communications Manager for BT Global Services and run my own motoring website (although I do not have much time to keep this up to date!).
I'm running a 2006 1.4 Golf S and a 2001 BMW Z3 2.2 Sport.
That said, I'm looking to replace the Golf with a MK5 GTI.
I've read some horror stories about turbos coking up and needing several replacements. As I'm not mechanically minded, is this caused by infrequent usage and poor mechanical sympathy or a history of a lead-footed driver?
Hoping you can give me a starter-for-ten on what to look for and checkpoints during the buying process of my GTI.
(looking for a 3-door, with manual 'box, in black, grey, or that dark metallic blue - budget isn't an issue as of June/July this year).
I look forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences.
Best Regards
Tom
You need to read this:
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?226836-Mk5-G...
The dark blue is shadow blue, quite rare and bloody lovely. There is also Lazer blue which looks rather good to.
I'd try and go for a 06 one with a good service history and not be too hung up on mileage.
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?226836-Mk5-G...
The dark blue is shadow blue, quite rare and bloody lovely. There is also Lazer blue which looks rather good to.
I'd try and go for a 06 one with a good service history and not be too hung up on mileage.
I've just bought an 06 with 66k on, full VW history aside from the latest which was AMD early last year.
Not heard of anything specifically with turbo problems, make sure the cambelt and tensioner has been done, water pump too. There's a coil pack recall that all should have had. Front wings DO still rust, but people have had luck getting them replaced or repaired FOC through the dealer, mine is starting to go a tad so might be a conversation I'll be having soon.
Ignore mileage for the most part, history is very important. Thankfully, I could write a small book with mine, it's very comprehensive, every service, MOT and receipt from new with invoices.
I think it's a brilliant car for the money, takes everything you throw at it. Will be keeping ours for a long time to come hopefully.
Not heard of anything specifically with turbo problems, make sure the cambelt and tensioner has been done, water pump too. There's a coil pack recall that all should have had. Front wings DO still rust, but people have had luck getting them replaced or repaired FOC through the dealer, mine is starting to go a tad so might be a conversation I'll be having soon.
Ignore mileage for the most part, history is very important. Thankfully, I could write a small book with mine, it's very comprehensive, every service, MOT and receipt from new with invoices.
I think it's a brilliant car for the money, takes everything you throw at it. Will be keeping ours for a long time to come hopefully.
In also have a black 07 DSG, I was somewhat reluctant to buy the DSG initially, and really only did so as my wife prefers automatics. I have to say, I was instantly converted! I have had no serious issues over the 10 months I've had mine, just a small glitch with a self opening sunroof, but it seems to be fixed now. from a quick google search it seems that sunroofs are a common failure point on all VWs of this era.
I've recently bought a 57reg manual 5dr mk5 gti, from my research I never found anything about turbo problems. Like most makes models there's some great forums out there with some great information. I would say the later mk5 gti' are the ones to go for as they have the updated DSG internals which I believe are stronger, also the newer models have upgraded components so upgrading the stereo is a lot easier.
So far it seems a great all rounder.
So far it seems a great all rounder.
I would have to agree that the 17" are a much better all round ride, I also went for the cloth tartan interior which looks awesome imho, but does suffer from wear an tear, where as the leather stands up better. For a vag model I can't think of another car that suffers from cloth seats wearing out, like the golf gti mk5/6 does
I also run a Mk5 Gti 5 Dr Dsg as a daily including dog transporter - originally bought for the
Mrs but she didn't want it so I inherited it .
Brilliant everyday car , does everything I want it to and more very well indeed .
I would have bought an edition 30 though if I had of known how easily tuneable they are .
I've just had an R Tech Stage 1 remap and Dsg remap , which makes it even better in
every way . Now running a perfectly smooth power curve with 240hp and even quicker
upshifts and full control of the Dsg box in manual mode .
With a Pipercross panel filter ( which I have but not yet fitted ) and the pre cats removed
I have been told it will then be 250hp , more than adequate for everyday driving .
You wont be disappointed .
Mrs but she didn't want it so I inherited it .
Brilliant everyday car , does everything I want it to and more very well indeed .
I would have bought an edition 30 though if I had of known how easily tuneable they are .
I've just had an R Tech Stage 1 remap and Dsg remap , which makes it even better in
every way . Now running a perfectly smooth power curve with 240hp and even quicker
upshifts and full control of the Dsg box in manual mode .
With a Pipercross panel filter ( which I have but not yet fitted ) and the pre cats removed
I have been told it will then be 250hp , more than adequate for everyday driving .
You wont be disappointed .
I had one as a daily runabout and loved it. It was a black 3dr with leather (the tartan looks ok in pics, but in my opinion looks/feels a bit plain when you're in the car - the leather is far nicer).
Plan to replace the diverter valve (£35, plus no more than an hours labour at the very most, if you dont want to do it yourself). Cam followers can also need replacing but again a simple job. Make sure it's had a cambelt/tensioner done within the last 60k miles/4 years (ccheck the forums in case that's cahnged again!), and look out for rust on the front wing arch lips.
The only thing I didnt like about it was the slightly diesely/rattly sound of the direct injection at idle, but they all sound like this! I didnt read about any turbo problems - I dont think they're a particular weak point.
Plan to replace the diverter valve (£35, plus no more than an hours labour at the very most, if you dont want to do it yourself). Cam followers can also need replacing but again a simple job. Make sure it's had a cambelt/tensioner done within the last 60k miles/4 years (ccheck the forums in case that's cahnged again!), and look out for rust on the front wing arch lips.
The only thing I didnt like about it was the slightly diesely/rattly sound of the direct injection at idle, but they all sound like this! I didnt read about any turbo problems - I dont think they're a particular weak point.
Yup, don't be alarmed at a tappy idle. It's a characteristic of the TFSI, they also tend to drink a bit of oil, as long as it's in tolerance it'll be fine.
I use solely Momentum 99 in mine as it seems happier, I have 18 inch Edition 30 alloys and I must admit they are really, really starting to grate on me. They look good but the ride is atrocious, considering selling and getting some 17's back on to be honest.
As for the diverter valve, don't pay a garage, mine literally took me 10 minutes to swap over.
I use solely Momentum 99 in mine as it seems happier, I have 18 inch Edition 30 alloys and I must admit they are really, really starting to grate on me. They look good but the ride is atrocious, considering selling and getting some 17's back on to be honest.
As for the diverter valve, don't pay a garage, mine literally took me 10 minutes to swap over.
I bought one about two months ago an 08 plate in red with grey leather and a dsg gearbox. 5 door.It has audi rotor style alloys which were fairly recently fitted by previous owner full VW service history. So far it has been great, especially as I am now used to the gearbox. 10 days after buying the car someone decided to crash into it!
Many of the salient points have been covered, so I'll dump down everything I know that isn't already covered:
Turbo issues are fairly rare AFAIK.
General coking issues are rare but do happen; due to the design of the engine you don't get fuel washing over the valves so all the oil vapour and crud that's dumped into the inlet manifold from the PCV can coke it up over time. Bigger issue in the US market than here, make sure it's been run on the correct grade fully synthetic oil. Ester-based oils are supposed to reduce this, as are; PCV deletes, catch cans, never PCV revisions. Some of them do to some degree, but none mitigate it entirely. Signs of coking are rough/wandering idle, poor economy and frequent manifold runner flap error codes. The only cures involve stripping down the head and either a) soaking all the valves, intake runners and everything else in nasty chemicals then chipping all the carbon off, or b) walnut-grit blasting.
The DV has been covered- there's a great deal of debate over whether the Revision G or Revision D is better. Revision G valves still tear after time, but some Revision D's have been known to leak boost out of the box. I run a D in my Leon, it feels fine. I had a G before, it didn't, but it was wrecked. If you have access to a ramp or decent stands, it should be doable at home if you need to replace it. I tried to do my in the work car park on the hottest day of Summer 2013 using a cheap jack, cheap stands and a tool kit borrowed from a colleague. This, in hindsight, was a mistake. If the car seems to have an audible boost leak, it's probably the DV.
PCVs go, but they're cheap so it isn't really too much of an issue. The newer the revision, the less prone to going they are. Symptoms are poor fuel economy, wandering idle, and 2-3 PSI of boost being lost. They're also very DIY-able, the hardest part being removing the engine cover. I used to run a Revo PCV revamp, which is supposed to prevent them from going at all, but I replaced it with a OEM one because the price difference was phenomenal and I could recoup most of my investment on the Bay of Thieves.
HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump) cam and cam follower should be checked- now, the literature on this issue is pretty jumbled so if anyone knows better, please chime in: my understanding is thus. Early versions of the 2.0 TFSI had a fuel pump cam (Revision A) made as a single-piece item, and due to issues with the material process some of these were too soft and wore prematurely. They were then replaced with a two-piece cam (Revision B), which if anything was (is) probably too hard for the cam follower which it acts on. This results in the follower itself wearing; first the ceramic low-friction coating wears off, then the metal itself becomes worn and indented. At this point the cam can fail, or the follower itself can fail catastrophically, destroying the pump too.
Revision A on the left, Revision B on the right.
Cam failure stages
I get my cam follower checked every service. It's very DIY-able but I'm a chimpanzee so don't do it myself.
Manifold runner flap motors can fail. They're not cheap (I think VW suggest a complete replacement) but I think some companies do repair kits for them. You should be able to hear the flaps actuating when you prime the engine but don't start it. Failure will generally throw a CEL and associated error code. In terms of performance, they don't really do anything apart from mildly improving cold starts. If the engine seems hesitant on a cold start and you've looked at all the other issues that can cause cold start hesitation, then the problem could be with the electronic ECU for the driver's door. It's supposed to prime the fuel pump when you open the door but these can be prone to damage from water ingress.
Cambelt change periods used to be something silly like 120k and 8 years. Change at ~50k or 5 years. When the belt gets done, make sure that the water pump is done too. Newer ones aren't prone to failure but the early plastic ones are- AFAIK the impellers break off. Early air conditioning compressors are prone to pretty hilariously catastrophic failures. Replacements are £500, only buy the Sanden as the others will probably just break again.
Suspension, bushes etc same as most other cars. Dogbone mounts are prone to failure, and springs can snap. The rest is pretty bullet-proof, although some have pretty shameful cosmetic issues with rust due to poor paint finish.
The standard nav is useless and hasn't been updated for years. People have dropped in the much better unit from the Mk6. HIDs get a big "yes" from me. Five-door trumps three-door. The leather interior is rare and really very nice. Manual or DSG is personal preference, I personally think the manual box is pretty good if a little notchy. 18" wheels ruin the ride and are prone to whiteworm.
Ideal spec from my perspective is:
Shadow Blue
5-door
Manual
HIDs
Heated leather
17" wheels
Retrofitted RNS510
Turbo issues are fairly rare AFAIK.
General coking issues are rare but do happen; due to the design of the engine you don't get fuel washing over the valves so all the oil vapour and crud that's dumped into the inlet manifold from the PCV can coke it up over time. Bigger issue in the US market than here, make sure it's been run on the correct grade fully synthetic oil. Ester-based oils are supposed to reduce this, as are; PCV deletes, catch cans, never PCV revisions. Some of them do to some degree, but none mitigate it entirely. Signs of coking are rough/wandering idle, poor economy and frequent manifold runner flap error codes. The only cures involve stripping down the head and either a) soaking all the valves, intake runners and everything else in nasty chemicals then chipping all the carbon off, or b) walnut-grit blasting.
The DV has been covered- there's a great deal of debate over whether the Revision G or Revision D is better. Revision G valves still tear after time, but some Revision D's have been known to leak boost out of the box. I run a D in my Leon, it feels fine. I had a G before, it didn't, but it was wrecked. If you have access to a ramp or decent stands, it should be doable at home if you need to replace it. I tried to do my in the work car park on the hottest day of Summer 2013 using a cheap jack, cheap stands and a tool kit borrowed from a colleague. This, in hindsight, was a mistake. If the car seems to have an audible boost leak, it's probably the DV.
PCVs go, but they're cheap so it isn't really too much of an issue. The newer the revision, the less prone to going they are. Symptoms are poor fuel economy, wandering idle, and 2-3 PSI of boost being lost. They're also very DIY-able, the hardest part being removing the engine cover. I used to run a Revo PCV revamp, which is supposed to prevent them from going at all, but I replaced it with a OEM one because the price difference was phenomenal and I could recoup most of my investment on the Bay of Thieves.
HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump) cam and cam follower should be checked- now, the literature on this issue is pretty jumbled so if anyone knows better, please chime in: my understanding is thus. Early versions of the 2.0 TFSI had a fuel pump cam (Revision A) made as a single-piece item, and due to issues with the material process some of these were too soft and wore prematurely. They were then replaced with a two-piece cam (Revision B), which if anything was (is) probably too hard for the cam follower which it acts on. This results in the follower itself wearing; first the ceramic low-friction coating wears off, then the metal itself becomes worn and indented. At this point the cam can fail, or the follower itself can fail catastrophically, destroying the pump too.
Revision A on the left, Revision B on the right.
Cam failure stages
I get my cam follower checked every service. It's very DIY-able but I'm a chimpanzee so don't do it myself.
Manifold runner flap motors can fail. They're not cheap (I think VW suggest a complete replacement) but I think some companies do repair kits for them. You should be able to hear the flaps actuating when you prime the engine but don't start it. Failure will generally throw a CEL and associated error code. In terms of performance, they don't really do anything apart from mildly improving cold starts. If the engine seems hesitant on a cold start and you've looked at all the other issues that can cause cold start hesitation, then the problem could be with the electronic ECU for the driver's door. It's supposed to prime the fuel pump when you open the door but these can be prone to damage from water ingress.
Cambelt change periods used to be something silly like 120k and 8 years. Change at ~50k or 5 years. When the belt gets done, make sure that the water pump is done too. Newer ones aren't prone to failure but the early plastic ones are- AFAIK the impellers break off. Early air conditioning compressors are prone to pretty hilariously catastrophic failures. Replacements are £500, only buy the Sanden as the others will probably just break again.
Suspension, bushes etc same as most other cars. Dogbone mounts are prone to failure, and springs can snap. The rest is pretty bullet-proof, although some have pretty shameful cosmetic issues with rust due to poor paint finish.
The standard nav is useless and hasn't been updated for years. People have dropped in the much better unit from the Mk6. HIDs get a big "yes" from me. Five-door trumps three-door. The leather interior is rare and really very nice. Manual or DSG is personal preference, I personally think the manual box is pretty good if a little notchy. 18" wheels ruin the ride and are prone to whiteworm.
Ideal spec from my perspective is:
Shadow Blue
5-door
Manual
HIDs
Heated leather
17" wheels
Retrofitted RNS510
Thank you to you all for your experiences and to ManOpener, for such a comprehensive reply on the engine/boost innards, which I am most concerned about!
Points to look out for then:
Comprehensive dealer/specialist servicing (inc cam belt change 50k/5 year period),
Have HPFP, cam, and cam follower checked,
17" wheels as better ride and no nasty corrosion,
Observe idle behaviour/fuel economy (what should I expect on a 20 minute journey of 30mph?) My guess being 27ish?
Replace Diverter Valve,
Run on 98RON fuel - will this combined with fully synthetic oil keep any coking up at bay? (what grade oil to use? Mobil 1 recommend 5W-30?)
What are the chances of finding a car for sale from a Volkswagen dealer?
Really appreciate all your replies chaps!
Tom
Points to look out for then:
Comprehensive dealer/specialist servicing (inc cam belt change 50k/5 year period),
Have HPFP, cam, and cam follower checked,
17" wheels as better ride and no nasty corrosion,
Observe idle behaviour/fuel economy (what should I expect on a 20 minute journey of 30mph?) My guess being 27ish?
Replace Diverter Valve,
Run on 98RON fuel - will this combined with fully synthetic oil keep any coking up at bay? (what grade oil to use? Mobil 1 recommend 5W-30?)
What are the chances of finding a car for sale from a Volkswagen dealer?
Really appreciate all your replies chaps!
Tom
I'm looking at a Mk5 GTI as my next car, so some great points. I'm also looking at the Mk2 Leon Cupra and Mk2 octy VRS, and I'm presuming as they all share the same floorpan and engine those points mentioned about the Golf extend to those cars too? Also, are there any points specific to the Leon and/or Octy i should look out for as well?
thomasbrown said:
Thank you to you all for your experiences and to ManOpener, for such a comprehensive reply on the engine/boost innards, which I am most concerned about!
Points to look out for then:
Comprehensive dealer/specialist servicing (inc cam belt change 50k/5 year period),
Have HPFP, cam, and cam follower checked,
17" wheels as better ride and no nasty corrosion,
Observe idle behaviour/fuel economy (what should I expect on a 20 minute journey of 30mph?) My guess being 27ish?
Replace Diverter Valve,
Run on 98RON fuel - will this combined with fully synthetic oil keep any coking up at bay? (what grade oil to use? Mobil 1 recommend 5W-30?)
What are the chances of finding a car for sale from a Volkswagen dealer?
Really appreciate all your replies chaps!
Tom
Not main dealer probably as most are too old now. In the end I went private as I got a cracking deal, much better than I would have received from a trader, but in the end there is no protection or come back with it. You need to decide whether you want to pay a premium on a car, but have the bells and whistles that may come with a dealer, or whether you want to possibly save a chunk and run the risk. There are some REALLY dubious examples on the market now, so watch out. Mine was £6700 private but I can bet the same car would have been maybe £7500-8000 from a trader. Points to look out for then:
Comprehensive dealer/specialist servicing (inc cam belt change 50k/5 year period),
Have HPFP, cam, and cam follower checked,
17" wheels as better ride and no nasty corrosion,
Observe idle behaviour/fuel economy (what should I expect on a 20 minute journey of 30mph?) My guess being 27ish?
Replace Diverter Valve,
Run on 98RON fuel - will this combined with fully synthetic oil keep any coking up at bay? (what grade oil to use? Mobil 1 recommend 5W-30?)
What are the chances of finding a car for sale from a Volkswagen dealer?
Really appreciate all your replies chaps!
Tom
I had an intermittent throttle position issue with mine, that wasn't apparent when I test drove the car or apparent for a period of time after. Luckily I seem to have sorted it, touch wood. Bit gutted I didn't test drive a DSG in the end, the manual is nice in a vehicle of this sort, but as mentioned it can be a bit notchy at times.
On re-reading I think I've made many of the issues sound more serious than they are. Aside from the cam follower and cambelt, none of the issues I've highlighted are particularly serious; they're minor niggles that will stop you enjoying the car as much, nothing that'll leave you stranded.
Specialist servicing- yes.
Diverted valve is worth doing regardless
The easiest way of checking the economy is to flip over the trip computer to the long-term average. A mixed run in a warm car on open roads should be mid 30s. My current long-term average is 28 but I do a lot of town driving.
Oil- I've been using Castrol Edge FST. I'll probably swap to a Motul 502-approved ester if I can get it cheap.
The points are fairly universal across all three cars. The engine on the Cupra is a bit different- larger turbocharger, slightly different ancillaries.
I've heard about the intermittent throttle position issues, they can be fixed with a reset using a VAG-COM.
Specialist servicing- yes.
Diverted valve is worth doing regardless
The easiest way of checking the economy is to flip over the trip computer to the long-term average. A mixed run in a warm car on open roads should be mid 30s. My current long-term average is 28 but I do a lot of town driving.
Oil- I've been using Castrol Edge FST. I'll probably swap to a Motul 502-approved ester if I can get it cheap.
The points are fairly universal across all three cars. The engine on the Cupra is a bit different- larger turbocharger, slightly different ancillaries.
I've heard about the intermittent throttle position issues, they can be fixed with a reset using a VAG-COM.
Edited by ManOpener on Wednesday 7th January 19:33
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff