1997 P38 Range Rover - what could possibly go wrong?
Discussion
Long time lurker but never had an account so I thought my first post should be on my most recent car purchase, a 1997 Range Rover 4.6 HSE.
I saw the car on Saturday after seeing it advertised on Gumtree with a ludicrous low mileage; 54k miles. The old boy who bought it last November (and gave it a nice long MOT) wanted it for caravanning but his wife was unable to get into it! The second owner had the car for 17 years and it appears only drove it to and from the supermarket with this low mileage, prior to that it lived in Chelsea. The price was reasonable, full service history, the mechanicals worked, the interior is superb for the age and best of all, no HEVAC warning lights; but more on that later. I picked up the car this very afternoon and drove it back round the M25 and down the A21 enjoying the highlife and the quietness of the cabin and engine. This car is all about refinement. Although my previous car, a 2002 Toyota Camry V6, was also very quiet and luxury, there is something more about the Range Rover that the Camry lacks.
There are some drawbacks as with any P38 that I will attempt to rectify during my ownership. Most pressing is airbag fault message on the dashboard. I was told by the previous owner it’s a loose cable under the passenger’s seat but will investigate further over the weekend. EAS has no warnings and the SRS light is on so it has to be one of the airbags.
Secondly the driver’s window does not stop winding at the top of window and makes the most awful juddering noise as it tries to push the window through the door frame. From the little research I have done it is likely a dead regulator so will need to fit a replacement which involves removing the door card, I wonder what other joys lurk in there…
Thirdly the car needs a really good clean inside. The leather is dirty and looks like it’s never seen soapy water or leather cleaner. The central console storage is covered in dog hair as well as the passenger door mats. It’s a good task for a sunny afternoon.
Of lesser concern, the rear diff is darker on one side like it’s had oil poured over it. It’s not wet or glistening so I suspect a dodgy oil change instead of a weeping joint. I cannot find a receipt for air filter and cabin filter replacement so I will check these over the weekend as I suspect they need changing. The car has some rubs marks on the front and rear bumpers with a few going through the paint as well as some interesting small dents above the rear lights. On a car this age external cosmetics aren’t much of a concern but I may treat it to some coachwork if it behaves itself. Lastly the tyres are original, 22 year old Pirelli Scorpions A/T. No cracking and the tread is good, grips well even in the current low temperatures so the rubber is still working.
With snow on the horizon for my corner of the country, I hope to test out the 4WD and see it’s prowess as an offroad if we get a good dollop of the white stuff.
This evening on a drive to see how well the lights and heating worked (both perfectly functional including both heated seats and the heated windscreen) the HEVAC display showed the service book of dread. Currently believe it’s the AC needing a regas; none of the service bills show any technicians has touched the HEVAC.
This car hasn’t had the heater matrix O rings replaced so that maybe a bill on the horizon but I can live in hope, same for the air suspension.
Overall I am excited and trepidacious about my ownership of this notoriously unreliable car but seeing the sheer quantity of information on maintaining these old beasts I look forward to the challenge.
I saw the car on Saturday after seeing it advertised on Gumtree with a ludicrous low mileage; 54k miles. The old boy who bought it last November (and gave it a nice long MOT) wanted it for caravanning but his wife was unable to get into it! The second owner had the car for 17 years and it appears only drove it to and from the supermarket with this low mileage, prior to that it lived in Chelsea. The price was reasonable, full service history, the mechanicals worked, the interior is superb for the age and best of all, no HEVAC warning lights; but more on that later. I picked up the car this very afternoon and drove it back round the M25 and down the A21 enjoying the highlife and the quietness of the cabin and engine. This car is all about refinement. Although my previous car, a 2002 Toyota Camry V6, was also very quiet and luxury, there is something more about the Range Rover that the Camry lacks.
There are some drawbacks as with any P38 that I will attempt to rectify during my ownership. Most pressing is airbag fault message on the dashboard. I was told by the previous owner it’s a loose cable under the passenger’s seat but will investigate further over the weekend. EAS has no warnings and the SRS light is on so it has to be one of the airbags.
Secondly the driver’s window does not stop winding at the top of window and makes the most awful juddering noise as it tries to push the window through the door frame. From the little research I have done it is likely a dead regulator so will need to fit a replacement which involves removing the door card, I wonder what other joys lurk in there…
Thirdly the car needs a really good clean inside. The leather is dirty and looks like it’s never seen soapy water or leather cleaner. The central console storage is covered in dog hair as well as the passenger door mats. It’s a good task for a sunny afternoon.
Of lesser concern, the rear diff is darker on one side like it’s had oil poured over it. It’s not wet or glistening so I suspect a dodgy oil change instead of a weeping joint. I cannot find a receipt for air filter and cabin filter replacement so I will check these over the weekend as I suspect they need changing. The car has some rubs marks on the front and rear bumpers with a few going through the paint as well as some interesting small dents above the rear lights. On a car this age external cosmetics aren’t much of a concern but I may treat it to some coachwork if it behaves itself. Lastly the tyres are original, 22 year old Pirelli Scorpions A/T. No cracking and the tread is good, grips well even in the current low temperatures so the rubber is still working.
With snow on the horizon for my corner of the country, I hope to test out the 4WD and see it’s prowess as an offroad if we get a good dollop of the white stuff.
This evening on a drive to see how well the lights and heating worked (both perfectly functional including both heated seats and the heated windscreen) the HEVAC display showed the service book of dread. Currently believe it’s the AC needing a regas; none of the service bills show any technicians has touched the HEVAC.
This car hasn’t had the heater matrix O rings replaced so that maybe a bill on the horizon but I can live in hope, same for the air suspension.
Overall I am excited and trepidacious about my ownership of this notoriously unreliable car but seeing the sheer quantity of information on maintaining these old beasts I look forward to the challenge.
Edited by WoolyFox on Tuesday 29th January 19:58
WoolyFox said:
Overall I am excited and tepidacous about my ownership of this notoriously unreliable car ...
Welcome, and great first post. I am excited about learning how P38 ownership gives you super-vocabulary skills (as well as all the real-world stuff). 
Do keep the posts coming, and more pics please.
I did buy a Euromillions ticket so I am feeling very lucky at the moment.
Today was it's first day as my daily for the 3 mile station run in -3C. Started fine, demisted the windscreen with the heated screen which is a small miracle in itself and the heated seats are a wonderful luxury. I am getting used to the height and already prefer it to the Camry. I do miss automatic lights and wipers (tbf it's another thing that would have gone wrong if the car had them).
The car came on private plates which I am tempted to auction off as I personally don't like private plates. An old car is an old car, private number plates don't change that.
I found a quirk of the air suspension, it is reluctant to raise the car from access to standard from cold. For now I am telling myself the air compressor needs to get working and there is a lot of air to pump into those bags. I hope the air isn't escaping before it reaches the bags but I'll cross that bridge when the inevitable happens.
Common advice I have read, don't preemptively change parts that aren't already broken. I will heed that advice.
Today was it's first day as my daily for the 3 mile station run in -3C. Started fine, demisted the windscreen with the heated screen which is a small miracle in itself and the heated seats are a wonderful luxury. I am getting used to the height and already prefer it to the Camry. I do miss automatic lights and wipers (tbf it's another thing that would have gone wrong if the car had them).
The car came on private plates which I am tempted to auction off as I personally don't like private plates. An old car is an old car, private number plates don't change that.
I found a quirk of the air suspension, it is reluctant to raise the car from access to standard from cold. For now I am telling myself the air compressor needs to get working and there is a lot of air to pump into those bags. I hope the air isn't escaping before it reaches the bags but I'll cross that bridge when the inevitable happens.
Common advice I have read, don't preemptively change parts that aren't already broken. I will heed that advice.
The weekend has arrived and after working faultlessly in the sub zero temperatures and light snow it deserved a treat.
Going through the service receipts, none of them mention a cabin filter change in it's 22 years on the road. Below is the state of both cabin filters once removed from the car and now replaced with some new ones.
A by-product of this is the service book symbol on the HEVAC screen has disappeared. One can hope this was the reason but I'll have to keep an eye on it. I will definitely be booking the car in for a regas in the spring as the air con isn't particularly effective.
As I had to bonnet open, I changed the air filter given the last receipt for it being replaced was in 2014. Filter was dirty but not completely black so changed for good measure with a Bosch replacement.
I also put in some Cataclean, not sure if necessary given the low mileage, into the quarter full tank then filled up after the 30 minute drive to the cheap fuel station. When I picked up the car on Monday the average MPG was a satisfying 10 MPG. After the long run on the motorway and my careful driving it has reached the heady heights of 12 MPG. Target is 17 MPG as the handbook suggests as the combined MPG but I would settle for 15.
Next job is the SRS warning light and I have gained a new leak round the top of the windscreen on the driver's side. Airbag is likely the loose connector under the passenger seat but need to consult the RAVE manuals for how to get all the plastic fascias off to see which connectors I need to reseat. The leak is probably from the very slightly loose trim above the windscreen on the outside. Silicon and gluing it down is my current idea for a fix. Once the weather improves and I feel more confident with taking the interior apart, I'll look into replacing the driver's window mechanism.
Going through the service receipts, none of them mention a cabin filter change in it's 22 years on the road. Below is the state of both cabin filters once removed from the car and now replaced with some new ones.
A by-product of this is the service book symbol on the HEVAC screen has disappeared. One can hope this was the reason but I'll have to keep an eye on it. I will definitely be booking the car in for a regas in the spring as the air con isn't particularly effective.
As I had to bonnet open, I changed the air filter given the last receipt for it being replaced was in 2014. Filter was dirty but not completely black so changed for good measure with a Bosch replacement.
I also put in some Cataclean, not sure if necessary given the low mileage, into the quarter full tank then filled up after the 30 minute drive to the cheap fuel station. When I picked up the car on Monday the average MPG was a satisfying 10 MPG. After the long run on the motorway and my careful driving it has reached the heady heights of 12 MPG. Target is 17 MPG as the handbook suggests as the combined MPG but I would settle for 15.
Next job is the SRS warning light and I have gained a new leak round the top of the windscreen on the driver's side. Airbag is likely the loose connector under the passenger seat but need to consult the RAVE manuals for how to get all the plastic fascias off to see which connectors I need to reseat. The leak is probably from the very slightly loose trim above the windscreen on the outside. Silicon and gluing it down is my current idea for a fix. Once the weather improves and I feel more confident with taking the interior apart, I'll look into replacing the driver's window mechanism.
Been a while since the update and a few things have happened in the intervening weeks.
As the weather was dry a few weekends ago, I got all the doors open and gave the car a good hoover and gave the seats a cursory clean with soap and water. I also went to investigate the condensation in the boot and found where it was coming from.
I took out the spare wheel (with original cardboard insert advert for tyres from the showroom in 1997) and found a puddle of water, about an inch deep (see photo). Before the last owner, the car was garaged for most of it's life hence I guess the ingress started when the previous owner to me left it outside for the winter. As it was a warm day (for February) and the sun was out, I bailed out the water, soaked the rest out and left it drying in the sun for an afternoon. Once we get a good long spell of sunshine, I'll sort out the culprit; the dodgy boot seals. From what I have read the boot seal doesn't need replacing, just bending out a tad so it actually seals the boot where the tailgate splits; that's the theory anyway. I'll wait till we have enough warm weather for the rubber to get nice and pliable so I can attempt this bending myself.
More worrying news, the dreaded O ring leak has happened.
I recently noticed the driver's side foot well, right by the foot rest, had started to feel 'spongy'. I felt it last week and I put it down to wet shoes. This week however we have had no rain therefore went to check it again and found my fingers covered in pink coolant. One hopes this is the one and only big bill I have during my ownership but one can dream. I am awaiting a quote from a local Land Rover indy to fix this as well as the SRS light and driver's window regulator but I am not hopeful of it being cheap. If the bill is too high, I will resort to following Eliot's excellent step by step guide here as well as Range Rover.net various tips and take out the dash and HEVAC myself during the summer. Eliot got it down to 3 hours but as I am cack handed I estimate it'll be a fair while longer. It's a challenge I could do but if I need the dash out to fix the SRS issues then might as well get a garage to do it at the same time. Fingers crossed it's not the heater matrix as well.
In other news, I have ordered and will have fitted tomorrow a set of BF Goodrich Urban Terrain T/A as the tyres are original 1997 Pirelli Scorpions A/T, I guess the car deserves some new tyres after so long. I hope it repays me the favour by not breaking anything else expensive in the next few months.
As the weather was dry a few weekends ago, I got all the doors open and gave the car a good hoover and gave the seats a cursory clean with soap and water. I also went to investigate the condensation in the boot and found where it was coming from.
I took out the spare wheel (with original cardboard insert advert for tyres from the showroom in 1997) and found a puddle of water, about an inch deep (see photo). Before the last owner, the car was garaged for most of it's life hence I guess the ingress started when the previous owner to me left it outside for the winter. As it was a warm day (for February) and the sun was out, I bailed out the water, soaked the rest out and left it drying in the sun for an afternoon. Once we get a good long spell of sunshine, I'll sort out the culprit; the dodgy boot seals. From what I have read the boot seal doesn't need replacing, just bending out a tad so it actually seals the boot where the tailgate splits; that's the theory anyway. I'll wait till we have enough warm weather for the rubber to get nice and pliable so I can attempt this bending myself.
More worrying news, the dreaded O ring leak has happened.
I recently noticed the driver's side foot well, right by the foot rest, had started to feel 'spongy'. I felt it last week and I put it down to wet shoes. This week however we have had no rain therefore went to check it again and found my fingers covered in pink coolant. One hopes this is the one and only big bill I have during my ownership but one can dream. I am awaiting a quote from a local Land Rover indy to fix this as well as the SRS light and driver's window regulator but I am not hopeful of it being cheap. If the bill is too high, I will resort to following Eliot's excellent step by step guide here as well as Range Rover.net various tips and take out the dash and HEVAC myself during the summer. Eliot got it down to 3 hours but as I am cack handed I estimate it'll be a fair while longer. It's a challenge I could do but if I need the dash out to fix the SRS issues then might as well get a garage to do it at the same time. Fingers crossed it's not the heater matrix as well.
In other news, I have ordered and will have fitted tomorrow a set of BF Goodrich Urban Terrain T/A as the tyres are original 1997 Pirelli Scorpions A/T, I guess the car deserves some new tyres after so long. I hope it repays me the favour by not breaking anything else expensive in the next few months.
Been awhile since I have updated this thread but a lot has happened to the Range Rover in that time.
Firstly I replaced the SRS coupling which was a simple process when following the RAVE instructions. The £15 eBay second hand part worked perfectly and my SRS warning light has now gone.
Secondly I fitted a replacement driver's window regulator which was an ordeal. Trying to get the door card off was the first challenge and I luckily bought some spare fitting lugs so it wasn't too disastrous when some broken off. Trying to remove the regulator through the foam liner was interesting due to the accessibility of the retaining clips, some are blind as they're behind the slider guides, to remove the glass then drilling out the rivets to finally get the regulator out. Put it back together wasn't too bad but did require some more dexterity to get all the sliders and clips to line up when putting the glass back in. Since replacing the regulator the window now works flawlessly.
I also fixed the air condition which was not working when I bought the car. A £60 can of refrigerant and leak fixer restarted the AC compressor and it actually blows cold when the weather is warm.
In the warm weather over Easter, the dreaded headlining sag has appeared in the back. It's nothing major yet but could well be in a longer hot spell. I am trying to find a supplier of the pre cut headliner for the car but haven't had much luck. I plan to do it myself instead of spending £200 or more on a upholsterer to do it. That money could come in handy for the major service this car is long overdue for. As I only drive 5 miles in it during the week, I suspect I'll need to change the oil every 6 month to prevent issues. I do try to get some long runs in at the weekends to get the car up to temperature.
I did get some nice photos of the car when I washed and polished it last week
Next jobs are replacing the interior mirror with a 99-02 chromatic rear view mirror, I suspect the power connectors are the same as I cannot see any difference between them but as it was only £20 second hand on Ebay it's worth a punt. The other more involved repair is the cruise control vacuum lines. They have split all around the T joint in the engine bay so I'll be replacing with silicone tubing of similar diameter (6mm or 1/4" according to other sights). This will hopefully be all I need to get it working again.
If anyone knows of where I can get the headlining material from, please let me know as most of places with suggestions are many years old with those businesses or lines no longer existing.
Firstly I replaced the SRS coupling which was a simple process when following the RAVE instructions. The £15 eBay second hand part worked perfectly and my SRS warning light has now gone.
Secondly I fitted a replacement driver's window regulator which was an ordeal. Trying to get the door card off was the first challenge and I luckily bought some spare fitting lugs so it wasn't too disastrous when some broken off. Trying to remove the regulator through the foam liner was interesting due to the accessibility of the retaining clips, some are blind as they're behind the slider guides, to remove the glass then drilling out the rivets to finally get the regulator out. Put it back together wasn't too bad but did require some more dexterity to get all the sliders and clips to line up when putting the glass back in. Since replacing the regulator the window now works flawlessly.
I also fixed the air condition which was not working when I bought the car. A £60 can of refrigerant and leak fixer restarted the AC compressor and it actually blows cold when the weather is warm.
In the warm weather over Easter, the dreaded headlining sag has appeared in the back. It's nothing major yet but could well be in a longer hot spell. I am trying to find a supplier of the pre cut headliner for the car but haven't had much luck. I plan to do it myself instead of spending £200 or more on a upholsterer to do it. That money could come in handy for the major service this car is long overdue for. As I only drive 5 miles in it during the week, I suspect I'll need to change the oil every 6 month to prevent issues. I do try to get some long runs in at the weekends to get the car up to temperature.
I did get some nice photos of the car when I washed and polished it last week
Next jobs are replacing the interior mirror with a 99-02 chromatic rear view mirror, I suspect the power connectors are the same as I cannot see any difference between them but as it was only £20 second hand on Ebay it's worth a punt. The other more involved repair is the cruise control vacuum lines. They have split all around the T joint in the engine bay so I'll be replacing with silicone tubing of similar diameter (6mm or 1/4" according to other sights). This will hopefully be all I need to get it working again.
If anyone knows of where I can get the headlining material from, please let me know as most of places with suggestions are many years old with those businesses or lines no longer existing.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff