15 years with a Smart Fortwo..and still running well.
Discussion
It was the Autumn of 2004 when the Smart Fortwo showed up at the dealership, one of the first cars to be sold in North America . (Canada got them before the US).
This was the most fully specced version, called the Passion in this market. Thus , it had alloy wheels, A/C and so on. Being a Smart it was registered with the plate “ALECK”. In those early days it was greeted with curiosity and often incredulity in the market here, especially crossing into the US.
Typical discussions revolved around. “is it electric?”or “ I wouldn’t want to be hit by a Mack truck in that thing”.
The diesel performance was not quite Pagani level, with a claimed 0-60 time of 20.8 sec. For reasons that still escape me, renaming it as the ForTwo from its original name of City Coupé was an error, because it is fundamentally designed to travel and park in congested cities.
In the city it is a very useful vehicle indeed. Typical trips are less than 10 miles round trip.
The car has never been garaged and has spent all the vicious Canadian winters parked outside , often for a couple of weeks at a time.
The 20.8 seconds is a bit misleading. In traffic which travels at very low speed it is just as quick as a Ferrari. However, highways here often have steep ramps to elevated levels, and I would guess that it is closer to 30secs up a steep ramp.
It has led the worst possible existence for a car. Very short trips, long period of parking, living n heavily salted roads in winter. Total mileage in 15 years is just about 18,000 miles.
It has not been cheap to repair for a car of this price;
-Blown turbo at about 8,000 miles (was out of warranty)
-rusted front discs replaced
-entire front suspension had rust problems and car was down to its bump stops- full replacement.
-clock no longer works.
Summer and winter tires replaced due to age.
It has only had one long highway trip early in its life and it was not a brilliantly comfortable experience. The tall and stubby body is quite susceptible to crosswinds, and in very hot weather the full glass roof is like a greenhouse, with the A/C wholly unable to cope with the sun.
The thread about Smart popularity fully discussed the European context. It is different here.
First of all there is infinite space outside of the cities and the car was never accepted here. It has regularly been nominated in polls as the worst car on sale.
This is because people use comparisons that make no sense. Of course there are bigger, faster, more comfortable cars for the same or lower prices, which is appealing to people with highway commutes or rural residences. Going back to calling it a City Coupé gets to its essence…low speeds driving, brilliant parking, perfectly adequate room for even very tall drivers.
Yes, all of the usual comments apply…dreadful transmission , low-geared steering ( deliberate design to keep it from tipping over), In daily life none of these matter. I have a variety of cars, but for a quick trip to the supermarket it is perfect. I don’t care if someone opens a door on
it,and never have a problem parking
This was the most fully specced version, called the Passion in this market. Thus , it had alloy wheels, A/C and so on. Being a Smart it was registered with the plate “ALECK”. In those early days it was greeted with curiosity and often incredulity in the market here, especially crossing into the US.
Typical discussions revolved around. “is it electric?”or “ I wouldn’t want to be hit by a Mack truck in that thing”.
The diesel performance was not quite Pagani level, with a claimed 0-60 time of 20.8 sec. For reasons that still escape me, renaming it as the ForTwo from its original name of City Coupé was an error, because it is fundamentally designed to travel and park in congested cities.
In the city it is a very useful vehicle indeed. Typical trips are less than 10 miles round trip.
The car has never been garaged and has spent all the vicious Canadian winters parked outside , often for a couple of weeks at a time.
The 20.8 seconds is a bit misleading. In traffic which travels at very low speed it is just as quick as a Ferrari. However, highways here often have steep ramps to elevated levels, and I would guess that it is closer to 30secs up a steep ramp.
It has led the worst possible existence for a car. Very short trips, long period of parking, living n heavily salted roads in winter. Total mileage in 15 years is just about 18,000 miles.
It has not been cheap to repair for a car of this price;
-Blown turbo at about 8,000 miles (was out of warranty)
-rusted front discs replaced
-entire front suspension had rust problems and car was down to its bump stops- full replacement.
-clock no longer works.
Summer and winter tires replaced due to age.
It has only had one long highway trip early in its life and it was not a brilliantly comfortable experience. The tall and stubby body is quite susceptible to crosswinds, and in very hot weather the full glass roof is like a greenhouse, with the A/C wholly unable to cope with the sun.
The thread about Smart popularity fully discussed the European context. It is different here.
First of all there is infinite space outside of the cities and the car was never accepted here. It has regularly been nominated in polls as the worst car on sale.
This is because people use comparisons that make no sense. Of course there are bigger, faster, more comfortable cars for the same or lower prices, which is appealing to people with highway commutes or rural residences. Going back to calling it a City Coupé gets to its essence…low speeds driving, brilliant parking, perfectly adequate room for even very tall drivers.
Yes, all of the usual comments apply…dreadful transmission , low-geared steering ( deliberate design to keep it from tipping over), In daily life none of these matter. I have a variety of cars, but for a quick trip to the supermarket it is perfect. I don’t care if someone opens a door on
it,and never have a problem parking
In fact, the bodywork is like new; the seats are showing some wear but overall it is holding up quite well. I have no idea what would replace it. Not the giant mini or the like. There is just nothing in the market of equivalent size.
Over its life the initial buzz has long gone and sales have steadily declined, with only electric versions left. Soon the brand will leave the market completely and the North American experiment will have been a failure. Yet, I expect I will keep it until spares and service are no longer available
When first introduced here, wild colour schemes were the thing:
I added a high level of tuning:
I do have the original Smart Swatch watch that was given to this who attended the opening of the Smart factory in 1997
Used winter and summer , it has also transported lots of dogs:
I regret that we do not have the same system of parking that is used in Germany for instance:
In the end when it is bought for its true purpose in the city it is actually very difficult to replace.
Over its life the initial buzz has long gone and sales have steadily declined, with only electric versions left. Soon the brand will leave the market completely and the North American experiment will have been a failure. Yet, I expect I will keep it until spares and service are no longer available
When first introduced here, wild colour schemes were the thing:
I added a high level of tuning:
I do have the original Smart Swatch watch that was given to this who attended the opening of the Smart factory in 1997
Used winter and summer , it has also transported lots of dogs:
I regret that we do not have the same system of parking that is used in Germany for instance:
In the end when it is bought for its true purpose in the city it is actually very difficult to replace.
I've been the custodian of one for 13ish years - bought when it was about 4 years old. After catching up with a maintenance backlog (previous owner bought an extended warranty which he then invalidated through lack of servicing, and bent various suspension components) and dealing with a couple of design flaws inherent in the car's packaging (brake light switch & steering column), the little thing has been pretty good at what it was designed for.
Okay it's fairly terrible on bad roads, and I wouldn't use it for long journeys in preference to other cars, but it's a convenient & surprisingly practical little thing.
Like yours, I suspect it'll be around until something difficult/expensive breaks.
Okay it's fairly terrible on bad roads, and I wouldn't use it for long journeys in preference to other cars, but it's a convenient & surprisingly practical little thing.
Like yours, I suspect it'll be around until something difficult/expensive breaks.
Northbrook said:
I've been the custodian of one for 13ish years - bought when it was about 4 years old. After catching up with a maintenance backlog (previous owner bought an extended warranty which he then invalidated through lack of servicing, and bent various suspension components) and dealing with a couple of design flaws inherent in the car's packaging (brake light switch & steering column), the little thing has been pretty good at what it was designed for.
Okay it's fairly terrible on bad roads, and I wouldn't use it for long journeys in preference to other cars, but it's a convenient & surprisingly practical little thing.
Like yours, I suspect it'll be around until something difficult/expensive breaks.
17 years old is a pretty good inning!Okay it's fairly terrible on bad roads, and I wouldn't use it for long journeys in preference to other cars, but it's a convenient & surprisingly practical little thing.
Like yours, I suspect it'll be around until something difficult/expensive breaks.
I appreciate your passion for the Passion, but that doesn't mean I agree with you.
Over here (UK) they are horrible things. I have been driven in a few, but never owned one and never want to. I would feel vulnerable each time I looked over my shoulder and think "Where has the back half of my car gone?".
Build quality seems shoddy. Dynamics are quirky to say the least. I don't get the tilting back when you pull away from stopped. The engine noise is odd.
Safety seems non-existent in the crumple-zone department. No amount of airbags and pre-tensioners can make up for that. So I looked on line and found an "offset" style crash test of a big Mercedes against this small one. The big one turned less than a quarter turn, whilst the Smart leapt backwards into the air and made a full 360 turn. No thank you!
The final nail in the coffin for these was when I went to a scrapyard in Hampshire for a part for my 15 year old car and saw a special section for Smarts. In fact it was like a special scrapyard for Smart Cars, and I was shocked how new these things were yet worn out totally; all were newer than my car.
Over here (UK) they are horrible things. I have been driven in a few, but never owned one and never want to. I would feel vulnerable each time I looked over my shoulder and think "Where has the back half of my car gone?".
Build quality seems shoddy. Dynamics are quirky to say the least. I don't get the tilting back when you pull away from stopped. The engine noise is odd.
Safety seems non-existent in the crumple-zone department. No amount of airbags and pre-tensioners can make up for that. So I looked on line and found an "offset" style crash test of a big Mercedes against this small one. The big one turned less than a quarter turn, whilst the Smart leapt backwards into the air and made a full 360 turn. No thank you!
The final nail in the coffin for these was when I went to a scrapyard in Hampshire for a part for my 15 year old car and saw a special section for Smarts. In fact it was like a special scrapyard for Smart Cars, and I was shocked how new these things were yet worn out totally; all were newer than my car.
I do have larger and faster cars, but none fits the urban parking requirement like the Smart does. One of the reason they have such a good insurance rating is that they have very few serious accidents. I expect that this is because they typically live in dense urban environments where many of the faults one would find with a long daily commute are irrelevant for purpose.
To drive a 997 RS in heavy traffic with its very stiff clutch and rock hard suspension is not an exciting experience and if I am simply traversing the city at low speeds the Smart is a much more suitable vehicle. I do not have so much a passion for it as an acceptance that it has its place.
To drive a 997 RS in heavy traffic with its very stiff clutch and rock hard suspension is not an exciting experience and if I am simply traversing the city at low speeds the Smart is a much more suitable vehicle. I do not have so much a passion for it as an acceptance that it has its place.
M4cruiser said:
I appreciate your passion for the Passion, but that doesn't mean I agree with you.
Over here (UK) they are horrible things. I have been driven in a few, but never owned one and never want to. I would feel vulnerable each time I looked over my shoulder and think "Where has the back half of my car gone?".
Build quality seems shoddy. Dynamics are quirky to say the least. I don't get the tilting back when you pull away from stopped. The engine noise is odd.
Safety seems non-existent in the crumple-zone department. No amount of airbags and pre-tensioners can make up for that. So I looked on line and found an "offset" style crash test of a big Mercedes against this small one. The big one turned less than a quarter turn, whilst the Smart leapt backwards into the air and made a full 360 turn. No thank you!
The final nail in the coffin for these was when I went to a scrapyard in Hampshire for a part for my 15 year old car and saw a special section for Smarts. In fact it was like a special scrapyard for Smart Cars, and I was shocked how new these things were yet worn out totally; all were newer than my car.
It's weird how much some people seem to rant about these.Over here (UK) they are horrible things. I have been driven in a few, but never owned one and never want to. I would feel vulnerable each time I looked over my shoulder and think "Where has the back half of my car gone?".
Build quality seems shoddy. Dynamics are quirky to say the least. I don't get the tilting back when you pull away from stopped. The engine noise is odd.
Safety seems non-existent in the crumple-zone department. No amount of airbags and pre-tensioners can make up for that. So I looked on line and found an "offset" style crash test of a big Mercedes against this small one. The big one turned less than a quarter turn, whilst the Smart leapt backwards into the air and made a full 360 turn. No thank you!
The final nail in the coffin for these was when I went to a scrapyard in Hampshire for a part for my 15 year old car and saw a special section for Smarts. In fact it was like a special scrapyard for Smart Cars, and I was shocked how new these things were yet worn out totally; all were newer than my car.
I mean, have you compared what your complaints are versus things like the Up!, 107/108, C1, Aygo etc?
They aren't comparable to "normal" cars.
We bought a 1999 LHD smart for my wife to start driving back in 2004. It was the Passion model with all the toys in red.
We thought it was great as a run around. We had two cocker spaniels that sat in the back, which was perfect as their heads were ar almost the same height as ours. Sue did about 8k miles over 2 years and it was 100% reliable.
I changed the oil + filters + plugs which was a ball ache.
We sold it after 2 years. Depreciation was £1 a month.
We paid 2,700 for it and sold it for £2,675.
I think it was V670DBL. Aa town car it was great, but braking hard from speed was unplesant with a lot of abs action.
We thought it was great as a run around. We had two cocker spaniels that sat in the back, which was perfect as their heads were ar almost the same height as ours. Sue did about 8k miles over 2 years and it was 100% reliable.
I changed the oil + filters + plugs which was a ball ache.
We sold it after 2 years. Depreciation was £1 a month.
We paid 2,700 for it and sold it for £2,675.I think it was V670DBL. Aa town car it was great, but braking hard from speed was unplesant with a lot of abs action.
gf15 said:
We bought a 1999 LHD smart for my wife to start driving back in 2004. It was the Passion model with all the toys in red.
We thought it was great as a run around. We had two cocker spaniels that sat in the back, which was perfect as their heads were ar almost the same height as ours. Sue did about 8k miles over 2 years and it was 100% reliable.
I changed the oil + filters + plugs which was a ball ache.
We sold it after 2 years. Depreciation was £1 a month. We paid 2,700 for it and sold it for £2,675.
I think it was V670DBL. Aa town car it was great, but braking hard from speed was unplesant with a lot of abs action.
True about the braking but rarely get up to speed! We thought it was great as a run around. We had two cocker spaniels that sat in the back, which was perfect as their heads were ar almost the same height as ours. Sue did about 8k miles over 2 years and it was 100% reliable.
I changed the oil + filters + plugs which was a ball ache.
We sold it after 2 years. Depreciation was £1 a month.
We paid 2,700 for it and sold it for £2,675.I think it was V670DBL. Aa town car it was great, but braking hard from speed was unplesant with a lot of abs action.
By the ,with winter rims on proper snow tires it is just fine in the Canadian Winter.
cj2013 said:
It's weird how much some people seem to rant about these.
I mean, have you compared what your complaints are versus things like the Up!, 107/108, C1, Aygo etc?
They aren't comparable to "normal" cars.
"I mean, have you compared what your complaints are versus things like the Up!, 107/108, C1, Aygo etc?"I mean, have you compared what your complaints are versus things like the Up!, 107/108, C1, Aygo etc?
They aren't comparable to "normal" cars.
Yes I have, because we have quite a few of those as temporary hire/rent things at work. The Up! etc don't tilt back when you pull away from rest. The Up! etc have rear seats, so I don't wonder where the back half of my car has gone. The engines are 3-cylinder and do still have an odd beat yes, which is one reason we prefer the Ka+ .
The weight has a lot to do with the crash performance against a big car, and the Up! has another 200kgs over the Smart. The Smart received a "poor" rating in the crash test.
M4cruiser said:
Smart:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcD4WeuiI3s
Fiat 500:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58zqJCtUjSI
I don't even know what you're trying to show there - it's two completely different test scenarios, tests, and measures.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcD4WeuiI3s
Fiat 500:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58zqJCtUjSI
All I can see between the two is that the 500 buckled at the A-Pillar.
A better video for showing the competitor vehicles that really get it wrong would be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yAnlpim8bw
cj2013 said:
I don't even know what you're trying to show there - it's two completely different test scenarios, tests, and measures.
All I can see between the two is that the 500 buckled at the A-Pillar.
A better video for showing the competitor vehicles that really get it wrong would be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yAnlpim8bw
I was trying to show that the Smart vs merc is the only car-to-car crash test I've found where one car takes off backwards and does a full 360 (or more).All I can see between the two is that the 500 buckled at the A-Pillar.
A better video for showing the competitor vehicles that really get it wrong would be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yAnlpim8bw
Your link is interesting, and yes the Smart is safer than some of those.
M4cruiser said:
I was trying to show that the Smart vs merc is the only car-to-car crash test I've found where one car takes off backwards and does a full 360 (or more).
Your link is interesting, and yes the Smart is safer than some of those.
The iQ is a very similar car and although it has a much better rating, it looks from the EURONCAP that it would do exactly that, as in the normal test it takes off and the video ends with it airborne at 180...Your link is interesting, and yes the Smart is safer than some of those.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE_eUP_BAcU&pb...
I think you'll always get it with small cars because they are light and small by the design requirement. In some ways, if they didn't bounce off, I'd worry where the kinetic energy would be going.
I would never recommend a Smart as a regular highway commuter to be fair. At 20-30 MPH, it’s regular city speed the dynamics of an accident are somewhat different so it does not worry me.
I do recall a Smart in Germany that he’d been used by a pharmaceutical rep that has 600,000KM on it. Had been used mainly on the autobahn. I have seen them quite often on the autobahn but safely tucked on the right.
I do recall a Smart in Germany that he’d been used by a pharmaceutical rep that has 600,000KM on it. Had been used mainly on the autobahn. I have seen them quite often on the autobahn but safely tucked on the right.
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