The £250 MGF
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SlowStig

Original Poster:

947 posts

199 months

Sunday 20th October 2019
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Some of you might remember my old Metro thread (https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1049960) where I had, over the 9 years of ownership, a lot of fun putting it together and upsetting cars which were not expecting it. However, time has not been kind on the car and due to a lack of facilities and wanting a change, I took the decision to replace it for something equally cheap(originally) and a bit underestimated.

So, after a budget of £500 I set off trying to find a replacement project. Bodywork wasn't a big issue, I just didn't want something which needed more welding than the metro did. After one of my mates suggested an MGF as they share a huge portion of parts with a metro, I had a go in his one and decided to narrow my search to an MGF or TF.

After test driving a few of each, I had an idea of what to look for and found this one on Facebook marketplace for £500 spares or repairs, slight oil leak.

Slight.

I went to have a look at it last weekend and was greeted with a car that hadn't been cleaned properly since the original dealer, but was otherwise fairly straight and tidy but with 11 months MOT. I was quite impressed as I do enjoy cleaning cars and could see a fairly clean car under the grime.
Now this oil leak, when described as slight, was not quite as described. It was quite significant and was coming from the oil pump end of the engine.
I had a few days to have a think about it, I had a spare high spec VVC from the Metro lying around, inc the mapped ecu which would drop in, and otherwise the car seemed ok. So I made a cheeky offer of £200 as it was going to be scrapped otherwise and was told "its going for £250, match that and its yours".

Done deal.

Picked it up on Saturday and if you were heading eastbound on the A590, I apologise for the hold up. I put 5ltrs of oil into the car hoping to get it home and it just wasn't happy so we took the decision to tow it home.

As of yet I haven't been able to get near it (got engaged yesterday evening, as all good petrolheads do after buying a cheap st car), other than pumping up the suspension and having a preliminary look at the engine.

Enough waffling, here's the offending car;





RazerSauber

2,879 posts

88 months

Monday 21st October 2019
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Massive oil leak, no time or space to work on it and potentially Rover levels of reliability. This thread should be fun biggrin

AlecT

199 posts

237 months

Monday 21st October 2019
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This looks a bargain at £250.00, ignore comments about Rover unreliability, that is complete tosh the K series as is well known, is used in Lotus, Caterham and other specialist cars without that comment thrown in.
I wouldnt go to the effort of changing the engine as that is a lot of work, the crankshaft / oil pump seal is readily accessible from the drivers side wheel arch once the timing belt is removed, an afternoons work.
Good luck with it.

SlowStig

Original Poster:

947 posts

199 months

Monday 28th October 2019
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So, I haven't had much time to get anywhere near this for much more than 30 mins one evening but I have got the cambelt cover off and taken some photos of the underside etc.

I think that the issue is with the crank end oil seal, when looking at the inside of the cambelt cover, the oil is coming up from underneath rather than from one of the cam oil seals. I am hoping to get it more apart on Saturday and ideally get the seal ordered before then to hopefully fit.

As we all like pictures, here's some I prepared earlier...




^ This is showing the state of all the oil under the engine. As you can see in the middle of the picture, the oil filter and temp sensor are soaked with oil, and the alternator above that is looking drier, except on the aux belt end.




^ This is looking down from above at the cambelt, in the middle of the pic is the tensioner and below that the water pump. As it looks soaked with oil on this side but on the right side of the image, its a lot drier as well, this makes me think the oil leak is at the bottom of the engine rather than the top (annoyingly)



^ The removed cambelt cover, showing that the oil is mostly on the leading side of the cambelt and on the other side, significantly less oil.


Currently trying to source a crank oil seal and aiming to get it here for the weekend alongside a cambelt kit etc.

Mr Tidy

31,013 posts

155 months

Monday 28th October 2019
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Well I can't help thinking that looks like a lot of car for the money, despite it's issues.

This definitely has the makings of a fascinating thread to follow, so good luck OP. thumbup

Smitters

4,408 posts

185 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
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I've got to be honest, you've really done the rest of us a disservice there. Flowers, chocolates, perhaps a meal out ought to suffice for the unexpected arrival of a knackered looking car. Throwing down an engagement really ups the ante.

Congratulations of course.

The MG looks lovely.

406highlander

182 posts

161 months

Tuesday 29th October 2019
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We test-drove an MGF when we were looking at cars for my son. I'm 6ft 1in and I couldn't sit in the driver's seat without my knees being hard up against the steering wheel - as I recall, the MGF had no option to adjust the steering wheel height (this was remedied in the MGTF). The lad is slightly shorter than me - around 5ft 10 - so he was able to fit into it properly. Ultimately we didn't buy it because the roof was leaky, and there was some clutch slip.

He ended up with a facelifted Mk.1 Focus 1.6 Zetec, which bizarrely had higher insurance costs than the MG did (but the Focus had slightly lower insurance quotes than the Mk.1 MX5 we looked at originally). Insurance is weird.

SlowStig

Original Poster:

947 posts

199 months

Saturday 2nd November 2019
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Apologies for the lack of photos, will try and get some added for tomorrow.

So, had a few hours today so whilst SWMBO has been ill inside, my mate came round and we started to strip the bottom end of the engine to replace the crank end oil seal.

Surprisingly, everything seemed to go pretty well and we got the cambelt removed, bottom pulley off and when we saw the state of the crank end oil seal...


...It looked fine banghead


So whilst it was all apart, we just replaced the seal anyways and gave the engine a quick run to see if we could spot the oil leak. Remember I mentioned it was a slight leak? Well now it was just pissing out. From the top of the oil filter. fk sake.

So depending on the weather, my motivation and how SWIMBO is feeling, I might just do a quick oil filter swap as I have one in the shed anyways and see if that is the issue. Failing that, with it removed it should give me a decent view of where the fking oil is coming from. Oddly enough, if you look at where the oil filter sits on a K-series (pic below for reference), there isn't anything above it which could be leaking onto the filter and at the rate it was pissing out, unless the alternator is leaking oil I suspect its just a knackered filter.


(not my pic)

SlowStig

Original Poster:

947 posts

199 months

Sunday 10th November 2019
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Quick update for this, annoyingly I can't seem to get the photos to work from my previous post but after doing the crank end oil seal, there was still a leak.

Annoyingly, have been ill all week so not been able to get out and have another look at this, but today I was feeling a lot better so went outside in the sunshine and cracked on.

Oil leak ended up being the oil filter (below, the bigger hole was done by me) that obviously hasn't been changed in the last 2 years at least and so actually rusted and rotted through (good old rovers, if its got metal, it will rot), causing the oil leak. Thankfully I had a spare one in the shed so popped it on and it looks to have sorted the leak out.




As there was a stload of oil everywhere, I ordered a new cambelt kit and replaced the cambelt and tensioner after doing the oil filter and cleaned everything up before replacing it. Everything was rebuilt, timing was checked and after manually checking the engine spun freely, reassembled all the covers and started it up.

So far, current costs are:

Car - £250
Oil Filter - Free
Cambelt+Tensioner - £44

Total - £294


Took the car out for a quick spin and it seems to have an annoying miss at low revs so I am suspecting a coil pack is on its way out as it seemed to get worse the longer I drove it for.

Jobs to do:

Clean the car
Isolate miss at low revs and fix
Tracking
Tyres all round (currently has a mixture of brands I can't even pronounce)
Pulling to the left under braking, I have a spare set of calipers I can put on if needed
Probably replace disks and pads all round
Fix rear window on soft top

AlecT

199 posts

237 months

Monday 11th November 2019
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I have never seen an oil filter rot out before, I think that filter has been on the engine for some time!
You cant blame Rover, Fram ( non genuine) filter.
Good job you replaced the cam belt, you can bet that has not been changed for a while!

SloppyClock

144 posts

124 months

Monday 11th November 2019
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If not already done, replace the alternator belt. They have a nasty habit of snapping and taking out the cam belt in the process.

SlowStig

Original Poster:

947 posts

199 months

Monday 11th November 2019
quotequote all
SloppyClock said:
If not already done, replace the alternator belt. They have a nasty habit of snapping and taking out the cam belt in the process.
That is next on the list, currently got an issue with low voltage on the obd2, so I need to check with a voltmeter as the oil leak may have buggered the alternator, which is conveniently positioned above the oil filter.

My box of polybushes arrived today, as this is a budget project, I didn't splash out on branded ones but some my mate found for me. £49 for everything except the rear drop links. Conveniently, I have a brand new set I was going to use on the metro so I will probably just swap them round one evening when its dry. Hopefully it shouldn't take too long if all the bolts come out smoothly.

swampy442

1,936 posts

239 months

Tuesday 12th November 2019
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SlowStig said:
That is next on the list, currently got an issue with low voltage on the obd2, so I need to check with a voltmeter as the oil leak may have buggered the alternator, which is conveniently positioned above the oil filter.
I'll guess there's a bit of oil in the alternator, causing the issue.

Interesting 'bangernomics' project

SlowStig

Original Poster:

947 posts

199 months

Wednesday 13th November 2019
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swampy442 said:
I'll guess there's a bit of oil in the alternator, causing the issue.

Interesting 'bangernomics' project
Thankfully it was a false alarm, the voltage measured at the OBD2 socket is not the actual output of the alternator, as there isn't a method for the ECU to monitor the voltage from what I can gather.

I did the spark plugs last night in an effort to try and rectify the hesitation at lower revs, turns out they were in a similar fked condition to the oil filter. Surprisingly, since changing them, the car ran sweet and pulls lovely and smooth.

Obligatory pictures:


Surprisingly a lot of space in the engine bay to work, one of the things which concerned me was access but not really had any issues as of yet...


Knackered plugs


All of them were in a similar state...

So big test today, took the car to work. 50 mile round trip, compromising of town, DC and Motorway. Nothing untoward happened, car actually has a better ride to it than my r53 Cooper S and is a lot quieter!


I still have to clean the car, it is covered in grime and detritus, and the interior is just a bit mucky. Hopefully if I can get some time this weekend I will give it a once over and make it look a bit more presentable for pictures!


Escort3500

13,421 posts

173 months

Wednesday 13th November 2019
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Interesting bangernomics thread. I like the way you’re getting stuck into it; I do enjoy these rebuild threads where all sorts of issues are tackled.

I’m not convinced by the earlier comment about the K-Series engine’s reputation for unreliability being “complete tosh”. My dad’s ZR 120 had the 2-litre engine and had major mechanical problems - head gasket failure (twice), a cylinder lining dropping and the plastic head locating studs shearing (Rover main dealer serviced all its life) Prolonged arguments with the warranty company he was with soured his experience even more. Shame, as it wasn’t a bad car otherwise and handled well.

Anyway, on with the MG thread, bring on the updates smile

SlowStig

Original Poster:

947 posts

199 months

Sunday 17th November 2019
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I have run loads of K-series engines and never really had any serious issues with them, just keeping an eye on oil and water and warming them up before thrashing seems to have worked.

Anyways, another weekend, another update (these will start slowing down as I am running out of jobs to do!). Today was cleaning day and wow, it really really needed it. 6 hours of cleaning and it is now looking respectable and the cabin is actually tidy!

Below is some pics of before and after, I invested in some bodywork brushes after picking the car up because of how awful it was and they really really made a big impact as to getting into all the panel gaps and shifting just caked on grime.









For those who are interested, I started off using the AutoGlym Clean All in a pressure sprayer on everything, whilst agitating the dirt with a brush. After going through the entire car, in every gap and bit of bodywork which the dirt had accumulated I moved onto using a fallout remover. This stuff is quite potent so diluted it down and sprayed the bodywork and wheels then left it for a few minutes to start changing colour before being rinsed off.
Once this was cleared, I gave the car a quick wash and rinse, getting into all the door shuts, bonnet and boot shuts etc. Once it was clean, I started on the roof and used some Chemical Guys roof wash and reproofing products, I was very impressed and my roof is now black again, but the stains I think need a more rigid brush and more time.
After that, vaccumed the interior, cleaned the wheel, handbrake and seats with leather cleaner before I then fed it all with some leather feed. I suspect it will need a LOT of leather feed, after feeling how dry and cracked it all was.

Some after pictures, sadly it was dark by the time everything was put away but it should give a bit of an idea:




SlowStig

Original Poster:

947 posts

199 months

Tuesday 10th December 2019
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Bit of a delayed update to this. In true MG/Rover fashion, just after brimming the tank, the car has developed a fuel leak of some sort or another and is currently in many, many pieces whilst I try and find where it is coming from.

Slightly annoyingly, I got a full set of engine bay fuel pipes from a well known MGF breaker, thinking that the leak must be coming from those but it appears not, as I have traced every single pipe and cannot find anything, not to mention that the engine bay smells relatively clear of fuel. This made me take the fuel pump inspection panel off and it stunk of fuel, so I have removed the inner firewall behind the seats to access the fuel tank, only for it to not have a leak either.

I am a little perplexed now, the next point of investigation is the fuel filler neck/pipe to see if there is a missing clip or split hose which would explain the symptoms.


I am also in the process of wiring up my shed so I have somewhere I can do stuff like rebuild and paint the spare set of calipers I have for the car, and eventually, strip, clean and rebuild the VVC before fitting it in time for my stag do next summer...

SlowStig

Original Poster:

947 posts

199 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
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Evening all,


I have been continuing my quest to have a working MGF the past few weekends and so have been looking into the fuel stench issue alongside the loss of fuel gauge.

Apologies for the lack of photos but I have been covered in petrol so was a bit difficult to get pictures!

Anyways, so the way an MGF fuel pump fits into a fuel tank is quite interesting, it is about 18" long and has a specific fuel pump access hole in the top of where the roof folds onto. Under the access hatch is something like this(this isn't my photo):


credit: the t-bar.com

Once you twist the metal collar off the top the rest of the pump lifts out the tank with a bit of jiggling to get the fuel sender float out through the access hole. This is what you end up with (the top is on the right side) with the lower bit full of petrol:


credit: rimmerbros

The whole contraption is sealed against the tank with a rubber seal at the top, a known failure point and so with the help of a mate, we worked out that in a past life, the car had been on the receiving end of some work around the fuel pump as some of the clips etc were not OEM and upon checking the seal, it looked like it had been not seated right after this work, causing the fuel smells and leak...

So, first job fixed. Next, the fuel gauge.

This was slightly easier to fix, just on the outside of the access hatch for the fuel pump, there is a rubber grommet which the wiring for the pump and gauge come out of. Tracing the wires found a non-standard bit of insulation tape which, after a bit of jiggling, turned out to the cause of the dodgy fuel gauge. As the place was stinking of fumes and both of us had it all over our hands, its been put off for another day when I can get out there and re-solder the joint.


So, all jobs done and test drive time to see if the fuel smell has gone. Trying to start the car and it wouldn't start so we jumped it from the o/h's car and we took the car out. After about 2 minutes, it was obvious something was wrong, dash lighting up and dimming when indicating. Only one this which causes that, low power in the battery, however when a car is running, the alternator would be powering everything...




..Yep, the alternator was knackered. censored


Thankfully, I had a known working spare which was removed from the metro whilst stripping the car. As replacing the alternator on the metro was an absolute pain in the arse, I was really not looking forward to doing it on the MGF. Luckily, MG had thought that it may be a job people would need to do and there is enough space to just access the alternator and lift it out from above. 2 bolts and it was out, looking pretty fked, with the new one getting fitted in a similarly quick fashion.

So now the jobs have been getting slowly whittled down, I am planning ahead for my Stag do in summer and now have a roadkill-esque list of "jobs to do" and "stuff I need to buy". I have a full ebay special polybush kit for the entire car to go on and plan on getting the spare set of calipers refurbed to put on the front of the car with new brakes to hopefully help it brake a bit better (no ABS is quite interesting). After that, its getting the copper brake and clutch lines checking and potentially replaced before I fit the VVC.

The joys of projects, no garage and winter.


censored




Edited by SlowStig on Sunday 12th January 18:50

Paul S4

1,289 posts

238 months

Sunday 12th January 2020
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Good read and interesting.

A friend was given a similar MGF that had a few issues, mainly overheating but not, IIRC, the HG problem. It was probably due to lack of proper use and the car had been standing for a while.

I seem to remember there was a trick with the thermostat where you drilled a hole in it to help.... but that was on a lotus Elise with the Rover engine.
Others on here will know more I am sure !

Good luck with it...I would like a similar project but no garage and living in a flat does not help !


SlowStig

Original Poster:

947 posts

199 months

Friday 3rd April 2020
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Blimey, its been quite a while since I last updated this, I will try and do it a bit more frequently but as I am classed as a key worker, I am still working full time, but from home.

The bad news firstly, the car is off the road. Nothing serious but the Insurance was due and with COVID ruining everyones fun (thats a joke, stay inside everyone so we can be allowed out sooner!), I felt it wasn't worth insuring it alongside my daily because it was a bit pointless.
Other bad news, in the cold snap we had a few months(?) ago, the rear plastic screen cracked and has been professionally bodged with duct tape and my hopes and dreams it keeps the rain out. It didn't/doesn't, so inside the carpets are getting soggy which may be a problem further down the line, for now I am hoping to just nurse it through until I can either replace the screen myself or get somebody who has done it before to do it.

Onto the good news. The car has been, mechanically, pretty faultless up to going off the road. I think that the battery is on the way out, or it has a parasitic drain somewhere as it goes flat after a couple of days being stood. I do have a brand new one which isn't quite as beefy that was in the old metro so potentially that might be brought into service.

Onto the pile of bits I have slowly been hording together like a magpie.

Looking ahead, long term, I want to get a set of the TF 304mm AP Racing brakes for the car. Not sure when this will happen but I want to make sure I can fit them under my wheels. The current set "square spokes" apparently do fit with a massive spacer, but I am not a fan of the wheel style. I did manage to get hold of an extremely good condition set of 11 spokes for under my wheel budget (still keeping below the £250 limit on one part) but the tyres are totally shot. This is a good thing as it means I can spend my time saving and researching for the best tyres (under £250 total) to fit. My mate swears by Falkens on his but he is using 15" wheels vs my 16" wheels. Another issue is the size to buy, being MR, the handing can be snappy if the back end goes so rather than going for a square setup of 215/40/16, a lot of owners go for a staggered setup of 195/45/16 front and 205/45/16 rear, as per the MGF Trophy cars. Anyways, have a nice photo of the wheels;



Next bits - Polybushes. I think I mentioned earlier that I managed to get hold of a full car kit of some good quality unbranded polybushes for the car. Being 19 years old, I suspect that the rubber bushes around the car are all a bit knackered so I am going to get them fitted as I work my way around the car doing other bits and pieces.

Next - Audio. Currently, 19 year old paper speakers are woeful at best. I have been doing some research and it transpires that the speakers I had fitted in the Metro will fit into the MGF as well. I have a set of Infinity Components which were excellent in the Metro so will be making their way into the MGF at some point (you can see them on the toolbox next to the exhaust in the below photo). Being a later Mk2 MGF, mine also has the rear speaker bar which puts a speaker behind the headrests. These are a bit of an odd size of 4x6" but there is enough choice for me that once all other jobs are complete, I might get a set just to try and improve the quality as well.

Finally, Exhaust! This was a bit of a random purchase, I was speaking with one of my mates who has an MGF and the cause of me buying mine (not sure if I am thankful of that yet) and he has a mk1 with a 120bhp 1.8 fitted. On the earlier 16v K series cars (I am happy to be corrected about this), they were all fitted with a "4 bolt" exhaust manifold (google if you are interested for a photo) which was quite restrictive and were a smaller internal diameter to a later "6 bolt" manifold. So he was looking for a later exhaust manifold and downpipe and after a look on eBay, I found a listing for a full stainless exhaust system, manifold, downpipe and backbox. After a bit of a chat he agreed to buy mine for some beer tokens to offset the cost of the stainless set and so I bought the stainless system. Once again, still under budget for the £250 limit on single parts.
(This is after a quick polish)


So that is hopefully everything caught up to present day. I am hoping to make a start on the poly bushes this weekend if the weather is ok as it needs the backbox removing anyways to access some of them. Here's a photo of the car on a random drive out we had;