My entry into the murky motor trade world
Discussion
I am a 40 something lifelong car enthusiast (probably similar to a large proportion of Pistonhead readers?) and despite working in an office all my life I do tinker with cars and use man maths in most of my car purchases.
I would rate my mechanical skills as a 6/10 - I can do the basics and my largest job was to change the springs, shocks, lower arms and driveshafts on my weekend toy. I haven't done much engine work other than basic servicing and changing coil packs and my bodywork skills consist of touching up stone chips and using t-cut so next to zero.
After thinking about it for a long time and not doing anything about it, I have taken inspiration from Mikedknight (£1k to £500k thread) and Toaster Pilot (12 cars in 12 months) and decided to take the plunge into the murky world of the Motor Trade. Now before you all get excited I won't be dealing in high end Lambos or Ferraris - this is a hobby and I have given myself a £500 budget.
I have seen readers on Pistonheads get some absolute bargains such as a good MOT'd Focus for under £200 and barges for next to zero but I could not find a decent car that I would be confident in being able to sell plus as I am doing this as a hobby and not a trader I'm not keen on buying a car and ticking the "sold to a trader" box so any purchase will be registered in my name. Registering a car in my name and quickly selling it on again could be a problem for a potential buyer - I am happy to hear of other readers experiences here?
So what I decided to do was either:
1. find a spares or repair car that I could either fix easily and sell on with a good story to a potential buyer
2. find a spares or repair car with lots of good parts than I could strip and sell parts off
After visiting a well known auction site and watching for all of about 3 days i came close on an Audi A4 Avant (£310 sold) and a Mercedes CLK cabrio (got to £500 and I lost interest) before I came across a 2001 Audi TT listed at £400 buy it now.
Despite the £180k miles and fact it couldn't be driven it had very good history, looked clean, 10 months MOT and lots of new parts. Reason for sale was that the clutch pedal had lost pressure and was on the floor and having replaced the master cylinder and checking pipework the garage had advised the owner it is the slave cylinder situated within the gearbox and an £800 labour job.
I offered £300 but the seller said he had other offers and someone coming the next morning to look at it and would contact me again if it didn't sell. To my delight I got a message the next afternoon asking if I was still interested and would I pay £350? I looked at the cost of a man plus transporter from the seller to my house and agreed £120 with a transport company. The deal was done with the seller and yesterday morning I was off to buy an unseen spares or repair car with the transporter arriving about 15mins after me to take the car home.
The car turned out to be exactly as described, started and ran but couldn't be put into gear due to the clutch and the bodywork, wheels and history were all good. Here she is:
I would rate my mechanical skills as a 6/10 - I can do the basics and my largest job was to change the springs, shocks, lower arms and driveshafts on my weekend toy. I haven't done much engine work other than basic servicing and changing coil packs and my bodywork skills consist of touching up stone chips and using t-cut so next to zero.
After thinking about it for a long time and not doing anything about it, I have taken inspiration from Mikedknight (£1k to £500k thread) and Toaster Pilot (12 cars in 12 months) and decided to take the plunge into the murky world of the Motor Trade. Now before you all get excited I won't be dealing in high end Lambos or Ferraris - this is a hobby and I have given myself a £500 budget.
I have seen readers on Pistonheads get some absolute bargains such as a good MOT'd Focus for under £200 and barges for next to zero but I could not find a decent car that I would be confident in being able to sell plus as I am doing this as a hobby and not a trader I'm not keen on buying a car and ticking the "sold to a trader" box so any purchase will be registered in my name. Registering a car in my name and quickly selling it on again could be a problem for a potential buyer - I am happy to hear of other readers experiences here?
So what I decided to do was either:
1. find a spares or repair car that I could either fix easily and sell on with a good story to a potential buyer
2. find a spares or repair car with lots of good parts than I could strip and sell parts off
After visiting a well known auction site and watching for all of about 3 days i came close on an Audi A4 Avant (£310 sold) and a Mercedes CLK cabrio (got to £500 and I lost interest) before I came across a 2001 Audi TT listed at £400 buy it now.
Despite the £180k miles and fact it couldn't be driven it had very good history, looked clean, 10 months MOT and lots of new parts. Reason for sale was that the clutch pedal had lost pressure and was on the floor and having replaced the master cylinder and checking pipework the garage had advised the owner it is the slave cylinder situated within the gearbox and an £800 labour job.
I offered £300 but the seller said he had other offers and someone coming the next morning to look at it and would contact me again if it didn't sell. To my delight I got a message the next afternoon asking if I was still interested and would I pay £350? I looked at the cost of a man plus transporter from the seller to my house and agreed £120 with a transport company. The deal was done with the seller and yesterday morning I was off to buy an unseen spares or repair car with the transporter arriving about 15mins after me to take the car home.
The car turned out to be exactly as described, started and ran but couldn't be put into gear due to the clutch and the bodywork, wheels and history were all good. Here she is:
The car is now home and sat on my driveway looking rather nice for an old TT but unable to go anywhere under it's own power despite starting and sounding good.
The work required to change the slave cylinder is well beyond my mechanical skill so i will be stripping for parts I can sell on and then weighing in whatever is left. Again due to my lack of skill selling off the engine, gearbox or other large parts is a no go and the value of these on a 180k mile car probably wouldn't be worth the effort. However the 18 inch wheels are in good condition with 4 nearly new budget tyres and as these fit various cars in the VAG group I hope to sell these on for good money.
The bumpers, bonnet, rear hatch and doors are all good and the wings are good with just a small bubble of rust under the surface on one.
I am confident there is enough money in the parts to get £400+ back pretty quickly and hopefully more. I am looking into whether a scrappy will collect the car with no wheels as my original plan to fit space savers is looking more expensive than I anticipated with the 3 extra I require looking likely to cost £60 plus!
Entering the cars details online for a scrap quote I would get £120 to £170 for the car so hopefully at least £100 with the engine, gearbox, shell and some panels still in place. Anyone with experience getting part stripped cars taken away and scrapped feel free to let me know.
No doubt there will be people who think this is not a great idea, but I am not looking to make a huge profit and enjoy a bit of wheeling and dealing and at worst will lose £500. Any encouragement gratefully received!
The work required to change the slave cylinder is well beyond my mechanical skill so i will be stripping for parts I can sell on and then weighing in whatever is left. Again due to my lack of skill selling off the engine, gearbox or other large parts is a no go and the value of these on a 180k mile car probably wouldn't be worth the effort. However the 18 inch wheels are in good condition with 4 nearly new budget tyres and as these fit various cars in the VAG group I hope to sell these on for good money.
The bumpers, bonnet, rear hatch and doors are all good and the wings are good with just a small bubble of rust under the surface on one.
I am confident there is enough money in the parts to get £400+ back pretty quickly and hopefully more. I am looking into whether a scrappy will collect the car with no wheels as my original plan to fit space savers is looking more expensive than I anticipated with the 3 extra I require looking likely to cost £60 plus!
Entering the cars details online for a scrap quote I would get £120 to £170 for the car so hopefully at least £100 with the engine, gearbox, shell and some panels still in place. Anyone with experience getting part stripped cars taken away and scrapped feel free to let me know.
No doubt there will be people who think this is not a great idea, but I am not looking to make a huge profit and enjoy a bit of wheeling and dealing and at worst will lose £500. Any encouragement gratefully received!
Yes I will do the work myself with help from my son who is one year into a mechanics course at college.
I expect lots of comments about the fine line between trading and private etc. but at this stage I am £470 down so let's not worry about that yet. If anyone else has experience of doing this in their spare time I'd be keen to hear about it.
I expect lots of comments about the fine line between trading and private etc. but at this stage I am £470 down so let's not worry about that yet. If anyone else has experience of doing this in their spare time I'd be keen to hear about it.
av185 said:
Presumably as it's effectively a trade you will be paying tax and vat.
As a trader, purchasers of your cars will also have certain rights.
Good luck.
VAT would only apply if registered for VAT and with a £500 purchase budget for each car, even with a few hundred £'s profit on each car sold, a lot of stock would need to be sold to reach the current VAT Threshold.As a trader, purchasers of your cars will also have certain rights.
Good luck.
Sounds like a nice way to start off...giving it a go, from home, car registered in your own name.
I am no expert on the little grey area here where you will look to make a profit and if you should be reporting it the government to give them their share, one or two cars a year Im sure its not a problem they wont be beating down your door but if your hobby ends up doing this 20 or 30 times a year...I don't think the private sale approach would cut the mustard.
I guess my look outs would be:
-Be sure on taxation etc as above
-If you flip a cheap car be aware that buyers of cheap cars often have very unreasonable expectations and will come back knocking if anything goes wrong regardless of the law and CRA - it could end up being a load of hassle
-Are you really reporting all your costs or just the main ones? All the little costs be it a new bolt or putting tax on a car for a month account for every penny so you know exactly what you are making
Good luck!
I am no expert on the little grey area here where you will look to make a profit and if you should be reporting it the government to give them their share, one or two cars a year Im sure its not a problem they wont be beating down your door but if your hobby ends up doing this 20 or 30 times a year...I don't think the private sale approach would cut the mustard.
I guess my look outs would be:
-Be sure on taxation etc as above
-If you flip a cheap car be aware that buyers of cheap cars often have very unreasonable expectations and will come back knocking if anything goes wrong regardless of the law and CRA - it could end up being a load of hassle
-Are you really reporting all your costs or just the main ones? All the little costs be it a new bolt or putting tax on a car for a month account for every penny so you know exactly what you are making
Good luck!
coldel said:
Sounds like a nice way to start off...giving it a go, from home, car registered in your own name.
I am no expert on the little grey area here where you will look to make a profit and if you should be reporting it the government to give them their share, one or two cars a year Im sure its not a problem they wont be beating down your door but if your hobby ends up doing this 20 or 30 times a year...I don't think the private sale approach would cut the mustard.
I guess my look outs would be:
-Be sure on taxation etc as above
-If you flip a cheap car be aware that buyers of cheap cars often have very unreasonable expectations and will come back knocking if anything goes wrong regardless of the law and CRA - it could end up being a load of hassle
-Are you really reporting all your costs or just the main ones? All the little costs be it a new bolt or putting tax on a car for a month account for every penny so you know exactly what you are making
Good luck!
If a certain youtuber is to be believed “Calvin diary of a car trader” the number is 6!I am no expert on the little grey area here where you will look to make a profit and if you should be reporting it the government to give them their share, one or two cars a year Im sure its not a problem they wont be beating down your door but if your hobby ends up doing this 20 or 30 times a year...I don't think the private sale approach would cut the mustard.
I guess my look outs would be:
-Be sure on taxation etc as above
-If you flip a cheap car be aware that buyers of cheap cars often have very unreasonable expectations and will come back knocking if anything goes wrong regardless of the law and CRA - it could end up being a load of hassle
-Are you really reporting all your costs or just the main ones? All the little costs be it a new bolt or putting tax on a car for a month account for every penny so you know exactly what you are making
Good luck!
Personally I would fix the slave cylinder rather than trying to sell relatively common car parts.
I recently broke a E46 330i for parts (I wanted the engine) and the amount of time wasters and idiots I got trying to sell really good condition parts has reminded me not to bother in future. I got a few hundred quid back selling a few large items and scrapped the rest.
You say you don't have the mechanical abilities but everyone has to start somewhere and would be rewarding for you and your son to help fix the car. I helped my dad fit a new clutch to my car when I was 17 with us both having no previous experience and it gave me the confidence to do all the spannering on my cars over the last 15 years,
I recently broke a E46 330i for parts (I wanted the engine) and the amount of time wasters and idiots I got trying to sell really good condition parts has reminded me not to bother in future. I got a few hundred quid back selling a few large items and scrapped the rest.
You say you don't have the mechanical abilities but everyone has to start somewhere and would be rewarding for you and your son to help fix the car. I helped my dad fit a new clutch to my car when I was 17 with us both having no previous experience and it gave me the confidence to do all the spannering on my cars over the last 15 years,
coldel said:
Sounds like a nice way to start off...giving it a go, from home, car registered in your own name.
I am no expert on the little grey area here where you will look to make a profit and if you should be reporting it the government to give them their share, one or two cars a year Im sure its not a problem they wont be beating down your door but if your hobby ends up doing this 20 or 30 times a year...I don't think the private sale approach would cut the mustard.
I guess my look outs would be:
-Be sure on taxation etc as above
-If you flip a cheap car be aware that buyers of cheap cars often have very unreasonable expectations and will come back knocking if anything goes wrong regardless of the law and CRA - it could end up being a load of hassle
-Are you really reporting all your costs or just the main ones? All the little costs be it a new bolt or putting tax on a car for a month account for every penny so you know exactly what you are making
Good luck!
Thanks - I appreciate the reply.I am no expert on the little grey area here where you will look to make a profit and if you should be reporting it the government to give them their share, one or two cars a year Im sure its not a problem they wont be beating down your door but if your hobby ends up doing this 20 or 30 times a year...I don't think the private sale approach would cut the mustard.
I guess my look outs would be:
-Be sure on taxation etc as above
-If you flip a cheap car be aware that buyers of cheap cars often have very unreasonable expectations and will come back knocking if anything goes wrong regardless of the law and CRA - it could end up being a load of hassle
-Are you really reporting all your costs or just the main ones? All the little costs be it a new bolt or putting tax on a car for a month account for every penny so you know exactly what you are making
Good luck!
I am doing this as responsibly as I can without it being financially ruinous in the early stages and if it does reach a stage where there is real profit i would pay any tax due.
I didn't need to drive the car home but if a car is MOT'd and can be driven home I found I could buy motor insurance online for 1 day for £34. There were even options to insure the car for a few hours!
If it gets to the stage where I need to look into trade plates and motor trade insurance (£2,500 a year I was quoted for selling cars) then it will have been a huge success and become a career, but I am a very long way from there and realistically don't expect this to happen. My son may well do this in the long term as he progresses through college and gains experience.
What you have highlighted regarding flipping a cheap car is my main concern and partly what made me decide to buy this one and break it. I can see myself buying and selling a car in a short period of time in the near future if it is available cheap enough or has a simple issue I can fix. If i register it in my name and hold onto it for a couple of months then I would see this as a private sale of my own car. If I do then I will decide if it is worth doing it again or not. Would probably have to SORN it as insurance and tax would likely wipe out any profit. Something to think about if I look at buying and selling a whole car and would be interested in hearing other readers experiences.
I will report every cost other than my time so at present the only costs have been the car and the transporter total of £470. The fuel I used to drive to buy the car and return home was about £15. There is over a quarter of a tank in the TT I bought so I will get the £15 back from that and if there is extra I will put in in my daily driver and pay £1.20 a litre back into my car trading fund. I will syphon the petrol out and measure how much there is so I can do this fairly accurately. I will keep very strict records of costs and report in full on here and not a rose tinted version.
lost in espace said:
I think your biggest worry is a neighbour reporting you for stripping cars, there are all sorts of environmental rules and regs. Keep it low key!
Thanks - good advice! I have a good sized driveway and get on well with the neighbours. They know i fix my own cars and never complain. I only envisage doing one car at a time and this one will be kept under a cover as soon as I start taking parts off it.PaulGT3 said:
Personally I would fix the slave cylinder rather than trying to sell relatively common car parts.
I recently broke a E46 330i for parts (I wanted the engine) and the amount of time wasters and idiots I got trying to sell really good condition parts has reminded me not to bother in future. I got a few hundred quid back selling a few large items and scrapped the rest.
You say you don't have the mechanical abilities but everyone has to start somewhere and would be rewarding for you and your son to help fix the car. I helped my dad fit a new clutch to my car when I was 17 with us both having no previous experience and it gave me the confidence to do all the spannering on my cars over the last 15 years,
Thanks for the reply and sharing your experience. I've never done a clutch change on any car and if it was a fairly simple one I would take your advice and do it. A Focus, Fiesta or something similar would be worth a go but the slave cylinder on a TT is listed as a 10 hour job by a dealer and everything I have read online says it is a pig of a job. Also the 4 wheel drive train is pretty heavy and I'm not sure this is the car to practice my skills on.I recently broke a E46 330i for parts (I wanted the engine) and the amount of time wasters and idiots I got trying to sell really good condition parts has reminded me not to bother in future. I got a few hundred quid back selling a few large items and scrapped the rest.
You say you don't have the mechanical abilities but everyone has to start somewhere and would be rewarding for you and your son to help fix the car. I helped my dad fit a new clutch to my car when I was 17 with us both having no previous experience and it gave me the confidence to do all the spannering on my cars over the last 15 years,
I appreicate your comments about selling the parts and will prepare for the time wasters and idiots!
Definitely get yourself an engine hoist and pull the engine out if you're breaking it. Don't go leaving easy money on the table. It's not too difficult, especially on a car that's being broken as you can cut corners (cut driveshafts in half, saw through coolant hoses, etc).
Stick the shell on Facebook marketplace and someone will be around to collect it (won't get anything for it once stripped)
Stick the shell on Facebook marketplace and someone will be around to collect it (won't get anything for it once stripped)
Based on how you describe yourself, I'd say it's within your capability to swap drop the gearbox and swap the slave cylinder. It's only nuts and bolts - it went together so it'll come apart.
The effort you'd put into breaking it is far greater than the job in hand. I'd say you're better off fixing, tidying and flipping it for max profit for minimal effort.
As someone else mentioned about, you can also sell 6 cars per year before being considered a trader, so worry about that down the line
The effort you'd put into breaking it is far greater than the job in hand. I'd say you're better off fixing, tidying and flipping it for max profit for minimal effort.
As someone else mentioned about, you can also sell 6 cars per year before being considered a trader, so worry about that down the line
Thanks Ecsy - I have been thinking about an engine hoist for a while as I'm sure it will come in handy. If I buy one I will probably split the cost 50/50 between my personal money and money allocated to this project as in the ling run I would use it for both.
Appreciate the info regarding selling the shell as I have read conflicting info as to whether a scrappy would even take it, whether they would pay for it or if I would have to pay to have it taken away. FB selling page in my area (around the Colchester area) is very active so that's a good idea. Wouldn't of thought of putting the shell on there but I guess worth a try when the time comes.
Appreciate the info regarding selling the shell as I have read conflicting info as to whether a scrappy would even take it, whether they would pay for it or if I would have to pay to have it taken away. FB selling page in my area (around the Colchester area) is very active so that's a good idea. Wouldn't of thought of putting the shell on there but I guess worth a try when the time comes.
I just remembered a guy down the other end of the road I live is very active on the VW scene and has several MK 1 and 2 golfs and runs a well followed instagram page so I have messaged him to see if he needs any parts or knows anyone that does. Only spoken to him briefly a few times when I've walked past and seen him working on the cars but worth a go.
I always figured the 6 cars a year thing was an urban myth, though I have to concede I spent the first decade or so of this century crossing my fingers it was true!
Best of luck with it OP. This sort of thing ends up in my watch list quite regularly, despite it being at least ten years since I moved anything on with a view to making a bit of pocket money. I like to daydream!
Best of luck with it OP. This sort of thing ends up in my watch list quite regularly, despite it being at least ten years since I moved anything on with a view to making a bit of pocket money. I like to daydream!
av185 said:
Presumably as it's effectively a trade you will be paying tax and vat.
As a trader, purchasers of your cars will also have certain rights.
Good luck.
Agreed, I see trading motors as a scaled up version of being a simple eBay seller. You can sell 1000 items with no problems, then you get that scam buyer who will never be happy, wants his money back and the to keep item.As a trader, purchasers of your cars will also have certain rights.
Good luck.
I would start off small, say one or two cars a month and see how it goes.
Anyone remember the guy who sold an A3 on here years ago and then three months later the guy tried to take him to small claims court for £6500 of work when he'd driven about 10k miles in the car.
As a private seller you can tell hm to 'do one', as a registered trader you can be taken to the cleaners and see your small profits wiped out by a disgruntled buyer.
I really don't understand why you think breaking it is a better option than fixing it.
A dealer says it's a 10 hour job, ok. It's going to be a couple of Saturday's work for you and your lad - who isn't exactly not going to benefit from the experience.
What's the worst than can happen? You have a partially dismantled TT on your drive, which is what you were suggesting anyway. The alternative is a clean and tidied up TT that you sell for £999 with say, 9 months MOT.
A dealer says it's a 10 hour job, ok. It's going to be a couple of Saturday's work for you and your lad - who isn't exactly not going to benefit from the experience.
What's the worst than can happen? You have a partially dismantled TT on your drive, which is what you were suggesting anyway. The alternative is a clean and tidied up TT that you sell for £999 with say, 9 months MOT.
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