Costin Sports Roadster - number 3
Discussion
Hello folks!
No idea if this is the best location for this thread but I've been building (and lurking) for years and find myself faced with a day in front of the PC. Figured it was time for a thread. If anyone wants to move it, feel free.
I'll jump in at the start, and say - this may (WILL) be a long one, and I know there are a bunch of different ways I could have done things. My facilities and budget when I first started where nowhere near as useful as they are now, and I've rehashed a bunch of things, often numerous times, as the build has progressed. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but please ignore the messy garage you may spot.
I hope it provides some enjoyment!
Prologue.
I helped Joe T (formerly of Specialist Automotive, and sadly, also formerly of the land of the living) assemble a rolling chassis and body that we took to the Detling kit car show in 2009. The appearance of that one certainly divided opinion, but the shape is generally quite appealing and I knew I'd never get a chance to own something with history like it, and a fundamentally sound structural design, so in 2010, i committed to buy one off him. That became known as Chassis no 3. It's the last of the "factory" moulded bodies and the most complete chassis that Joe had available before his untimely and tragic demise. Chris Holloway has had Chassis no 2 on the road (mostly) since 2004. Since his car was semi-completed by the "factory" until they ran out of cash, he ended up with no windscreen, headlight fairings, and no seats. I therefore resolved to build mine to the best of my ability to the factory spec as a tribute to the late Frank Costin and Joe Tavani. I just hope I finish it off before it finishes me!
The Detling showcar.
Chris Holloway and No 2. First time he sat in the right seat in his car. De-moulded by us about 2 days earlier. He's a superb laminator, as it turns out, he just didn't know. Another photo of the completed seat somewhere further on.
The idea is to end up with a fair-weather car that's fun, unique and quick, and gives an excellent basis for later upgrades or performance improvements. Because it's a home-build, it'll need to go through IVA, and I've been building it with reference to the manual from the start; however, I'm still not fitting doors! I'm 6', my Mrs is 5'4" and we can both step over the sides. Who needs doors? Or a roof... It's already a light car, so I'll be trying to keep it that way, but will save carbon mods for later on; I don't like the look of it, so the only reason I'd use it would be weight savings as it'll be covered from view anyway, and it's just not worth the expense to me at this stage. I've made a few tweaks as I've gone along to try and keep the notoriously leaky K-series reliable, and yes, i did consider other options. Originality won through, and I love the idea of using a car that no-one will recognise to upstage faster things with a supposedly fragile and small engine. To try and help - my cylinder head has been DVA'd and fitted with slightly lumpier cams, and the 19k mile bottom end was stripped and checked over. Once I'm on the road, the ECU's going to KMaps.
So...
When I started, +/- 10 months or so.
Say Hello to Joel. He taught me to TIG weld, and despite being several years younger, is amazing at it. Something to do with being on the welding bench at BAE Systems I guess. Chassis is just resting in the body, no mountings, no wheels, nothing.
Fast forward about 8 years. Delay is because of budget/time/it's just me working on it for the most part. And I keep re-doing things because of, y'know, development.
She's actually running in this photo, and was driven on my 74 yard test track immediately after it was taken. Mrs' bestie's husband in the passenger seat. Also, my car still has no name but I have decided it's a she. I'll wait until I know what her personality is on the road before naming her.
If you want more detail on anything, I have about 1400 photos. And an astonishing memory for stuff I'm interested in, so by all means, ask questions. But beware, you might get a long answer!
Following on from the photo above, and fast forward another year or two...
Started bodywork. Who would have thought that a 25 year old poorly-moulded nugget of fibreglass would need weeks and weeks of block sanding and filling to get it straight for paint! Also, the sharp eyed will notice headlight covers and completed headlight buckets. The screen surround has also been bonded in using carbon fibre. Don't worry, it has a steel tube liner as well.
A few other entertaining (to me) highlights before I sign off and await the inevitable tirade of "I wouldn't have done it like that". They're in no particular order, but they might be interesting!
Custom warning light module. DIY photo-etched PCB made in the kitchen, and a fascia produced by another Costin owner who happens to own a laser-etching machine.
First time my car ever had wheels fitted! I was younger and thinner then. Annoyingly, it came to pieces less than 30 minutes later is it couldn't be stored mobile.
Just missing a few bits, steering wheel for one thing. Rack's on though.
I needed a gearknob, all the ones from Halfords are dreadful. And since earlier Costins are normally made of wood, time for a sort of tribute.
Coolant pipework, expertly formed in one go by Alan. At the time, he said these were the most challenging parts he'd made in the 45 years he's been bending pipe. Doesn't look it in this photo, but the front end has some serious shapes in it. I'm an air conditioning and controls engineer by trade, so the copper mockup that went to Alan is visible in the background. Expensive, but worth it to get it right, especially when it's being bent to shape in the real for beer money.
The serious shapes, mainly for fitting past the front suspension. And yes, the thermostat is way the hell down the front. Aiming to reduce thermal shock by making the majority of the coolant warm up before it opens up and dumps a radiator full of cold. Seems to work quite well. For the Elise/MGF crowd, the one fitted is an EliseParts 82 degree PRRT.
Another one from Alan. This became his new "most challenging piece" ever. The legs off the front are my addition, but he formed the whole hoop from one piece, in one go, and it fitted like a glove first time. This is the liner for the windscreen surround, in 2.64mm seamless steel. This one cost a couple of pints, and he's even more narked about this than he was the coolant pipes, as it'll be bonded into the surround and never seen again...
My first ever piece of moulded fibreglass. The first of many, as it turns out. This is the main gauge pod.
Wiper mechanism. Motor is ex-Peugeot 205, and with the fusebox set up correctly, gives high speed, low, programmable intermittent (VW-style) as well as one wipe with a short squirt, and 3 with an extended squirt. On the washer jets, I mean. All controlled by Vauxhall Combo column stalks. Difficult to see what's happening here, but the bar between the spindles also extends out to the body bulkheads at the sides to stop the body flexing. It's removable in sections, which means the linkage lengths can be set up on the bench, tested, and then installed in the car. Wiper motor just about visible as the black lump behind the plate in the middle. No idea why it's so bloody blurry!
The brains of the car, the main fusebox. Again, put together in the garage. There's a lot more added to it since, but this got 80% of the car working. Fully colour coded in the Lucas scheme, as that's what the engine loom wiring was based on. The controls engineer in my head wouldn't let me do it all in one colour..
For amusment; the last iteration of wiring loom following on from this is now fully plug-and-play and it's sectional, so the dashboard portion for instance can be removed if I want to add a circuit without gutting the rest of the car. Because the engine is from a late model MGZR, unless I've misunderstood the IVA requirements of emissions, it must have all the same emissions control gear - which I believe also includes OBD. So the car has a functional OBD2 port. I've also fitted a low-coolant warning light integrated into the main gauge pod, and a two-stage low fuel light. Driveway testing destroyed two fuel pumps because they hate being run low on fuel for extended periods, something I should have seen coming, so I have a float switch in the main tank and one in the swirl pot around the pump. Fuel light comes on solid when the main tank is low, and flashes when the swirl pot gets low. Wiring also includes... ahem, electric mirrors. The ones I thought suited the car most are from a Mk1 Eunos roadster, JDM spec. and happened to be electric. If they've got motors in, they may as well work... Owing to it's MGZR origins, the engine's an EU3 version with sequential injection and coil on plug ignition. It's also running on an MGTF ECU, though, which means I have built in engine bay fan control which the ZR was never set up for. Something to do with the engine being in the wrong end?
Engine bay. Big green lump at the front is the airbox. Fits a K and N cone filter, but has rails for a standard MGZR panel as well. Options, options... Draws air through a vent in the body directly above. I'll probably upgrade to a carbon airbox of my own design later on, and step up the induction pipe size, but will save these for later mods. This is the only car I've ever owned, despite having driven 500k miles in company vehicles, and it's a project for life so in the interests of short term cost and long term entertainment/ease of manufacture, GRP it is for now.
Few more photos with bodywork in progress, taken mostly at random...
The sharp eyed among you on this one may notice a hole in the body that runs between the top of the "buttresses" on the body. The whole car is literally 37" high, and will be midnight blue, so that's a slot for a high-level brake light. The average road user these days isn't always the most observant.
Seat for Chris's Chassis No 2., directly off the mould. Mine followed a couple of weeks later.
Interior largely assembled. All surfaces will be upholstered. There are good-sized storage bins outboard of the seats between the chassis and body with lockable lids, passenger side one almost fits Mrs' handbag. Drivers one is slightly deeper, as that has no coolant pipes below, so will be where the small socket set and jack will live. I can't describe how annoyed I'd be if I was left by the side of the road, in a car I'd built for want of a 10mm socket.
Supporting frame for spare wheel. Don't worry, will only be a space saver, and I'll be fitting a heatshield beneath. This will also double as the boot floor support, but I'm planning to make the entire boot box a removable item for those days when you want to drop a few kgs' and just go fast, like trackdays.
Apologies for small, crappy resolution pictures. They're way better than that on the phone, if anyone knows of a way for them to be uploaded full-size and resolution, please let me know.
I'll probably bung a few more photos on here as and when time allows, but for some reason despite normally liking my anonymity I felt the need to share my project.
By the way - because what I'm doing with this thing is pretty much prototyping, my build is a bit of an odd one. I basically am building the car all in one go, and then disassembling so I can coat the chassis and finish stuff off knowing that it all fits together. So despite currently being driveable and every last thing on it working, it does have to come to pieces again, right back to bare chassis at which time I'll panel it. Once all that's done, it's basically going to be much like most other kit car builds. First job on mine is to build the kit!!
Right, signing off for a bit. Time/boredom dependent, more photo updates at random.
Enjoy!
No idea if this is the best location for this thread but I've been building (and lurking) for years and find myself faced with a day in front of the PC. Figured it was time for a thread. If anyone wants to move it, feel free.
I'll jump in at the start, and say - this may (WILL) be a long one, and I know there are a bunch of different ways I could have done things. My facilities and budget when I first started where nowhere near as useful as they are now, and I've rehashed a bunch of things, often numerous times, as the build has progressed. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but please ignore the messy garage you may spot.
I hope it provides some enjoyment!
Prologue.
I helped Joe T (formerly of Specialist Automotive, and sadly, also formerly of the land of the living) assemble a rolling chassis and body that we took to the Detling kit car show in 2009. The appearance of that one certainly divided opinion, but the shape is generally quite appealing and I knew I'd never get a chance to own something with history like it, and a fundamentally sound structural design, so in 2010, i committed to buy one off him. That became known as Chassis no 3. It's the last of the "factory" moulded bodies and the most complete chassis that Joe had available before his untimely and tragic demise. Chris Holloway has had Chassis no 2 on the road (mostly) since 2004. Since his car was semi-completed by the "factory" until they ran out of cash, he ended up with no windscreen, headlight fairings, and no seats. I therefore resolved to build mine to the best of my ability to the factory spec as a tribute to the late Frank Costin and Joe Tavani. I just hope I finish it off before it finishes me!
The Detling showcar.
Chris Holloway and No 2. First time he sat in the right seat in his car. De-moulded by us about 2 days earlier. He's a superb laminator, as it turns out, he just didn't know. Another photo of the completed seat somewhere further on.
The idea is to end up with a fair-weather car that's fun, unique and quick, and gives an excellent basis for later upgrades or performance improvements. Because it's a home-build, it'll need to go through IVA, and I've been building it with reference to the manual from the start; however, I'm still not fitting doors! I'm 6', my Mrs is 5'4" and we can both step over the sides. Who needs doors? Or a roof... It's already a light car, so I'll be trying to keep it that way, but will save carbon mods for later on; I don't like the look of it, so the only reason I'd use it would be weight savings as it'll be covered from view anyway, and it's just not worth the expense to me at this stage. I've made a few tweaks as I've gone along to try and keep the notoriously leaky K-series reliable, and yes, i did consider other options. Originality won through, and I love the idea of using a car that no-one will recognise to upstage faster things with a supposedly fragile and small engine. To try and help - my cylinder head has been DVA'd and fitted with slightly lumpier cams, and the 19k mile bottom end was stripped and checked over. Once I'm on the road, the ECU's going to KMaps.
So...
When I started, +/- 10 months or so.
Say Hello to Joel. He taught me to TIG weld, and despite being several years younger, is amazing at it. Something to do with being on the welding bench at BAE Systems I guess. Chassis is just resting in the body, no mountings, no wheels, nothing.
Fast forward about 8 years. Delay is because of budget/time/it's just me working on it for the most part. And I keep re-doing things because of, y'know, development.
She's actually running in this photo, and was driven on my 74 yard test track immediately after it was taken. Mrs' bestie's husband in the passenger seat. Also, my car still has no name but I have decided it's a she. I'll wait until I know what her personality is on the road before naming her.
If you want more detail on anything, I have about 1400 photos. And an astonishing memory for stuff I'm interested in, so by all means, ask questions. But beware, you might get a long answer!
Following on from the photo above, and fast forward another year or two...
Started bodywork. Who would have thought that a 25 year old poorly-moulded nugget of fibreglass would need weeks and weeks of block sanding and filling to get it straight for paint! Also, the sharp eyed will notice headlight covers and completed headlight buckets. The screen surround has also been bonded in using carbon fibre. Don't worry, it has a steel tube liner as well.
A few other entertaining (to me) highlights before I sign off and await the inevitable tirade of "I wouldn't have done it like that". They're in no particular order, but they might be interesting!
Custom warning light module. DIY photo-etched PCB made in the kitchen, and a fascia produced by another Costin owner who happens to own a laser-etching machine.
First time my car ever had wheels fitted! I was younger and thinner then. Annoyingly, it came to pieces less than 30 minutes later is it couldn't be stored mobile.
Just missing a few bits, steering wheel for one thing. Rack's on though.
I needed a gearknob, all the ones from Halfords are dreadful. And since earlier Costins are normally made of wood, time for a sort of tribute.
Coolant pipework, expertly formed in one go by Alan. At the time, he said these were the most challenging parts he'd made in the 45 years he's been bending pipe. Doesn't look it in this photo, but the front end has some serious shapes in it. I'm an air conditioning and controls engineer by trade, so the copper mockup that went to Alan is visible in the background. Expensive, but worth it to get it right, especially when it's being bent to shape in the real for beer money.
The serious shapes, mainly for fitting past the front suspension. And yes, the thermostat is way the hell down the front. Aiming to reduce thermal shock by making the majority of the coolant warm up before it opens up and dumps a radiator full of cold. Seems to work quite well. For the Elise/MGF crowd, the one fitted is an EliseParts 82 degree PRRT.
Another one from Alan. This became his new "most challenging piece" ever. The legs off the front are my addition, but he formed the whole hoop from one piece, in one go, and it fitted like a glove first time. This is the liner for the windscreen surround, in 2.64mm seamless steel. This one cost a couple of pints, and he's even more narked about this than he was the coolant pipes, as it'll be bonded into the surround and never seen again...
My first ever piece of moulded fibreglass. The first of many, as it turns out. This is the main gauge pod.
Wiper mechanism. Motor is ex-Peugeot 205, and with the fusebox set up correctly, gives high speed, low, programmable intermittent (VW-style) as well as one wipe with a short squirt, and 3 with an extended squirt. On the washer jets, I mean. All controlled by Vauxhall Combo column stalks. Difficult to see what's happening here, but the bar between the spindles also extends out to the body bulkheads at the sides to stop the body flexing. It's removable in sections, which means the linkage lengths can be set up on the bench, tested, and then installed in the car. Wiper motor just about visible as the black lump behind the plate in the middle. No idea why it's so bloody blurry!
The brains of the car, the main fusebox. Again, put together in the garage. There's a lot more added to it since, but this got 80% of the car working. Fully colour coded in the Lucas scheme, as that's what the engine loom wiring was based on. The controls engineer in my head wouldn't let me do it all in one colour..
For amusment; the last iteration of wiring loom following on from this is now fully plug-and-play and it's sectional, so the dashboard portion for instance can be removed if I want to add a circuit without gutting the rest of the car. Because the engine is from a late model MGZR, unless I've misunderstood the IVA requirements of emissions, it must have all the same emissions control gear - which I believe also includes OBD. So the car has a functional OBD2 port. I've also fitted a low-coolant warning light integrated into the main gauge pod, and a two-stage low fuel light. Driveway testing destroyed two fuel pumps because they hate being run low on fuel for extended periods, something I should have seen coming, so I have a float switch in the main tank and one in the swirl pot around the pump. Fuel light comes on solid when the main tank is low, and flashes when the swirl pot gets low. Wiring also includes... ahem, electric mirrors. The ones I thought suited the car most are from a Mk1 Eunos roadster, JDM spec. and happened to be electric. If they've got motors in, they may as well work... Owing to it's MGZR origins, the engine's an EU3 version with sequential injection and coil on plug ignition. It's also running on an MGTF ECU, though, which means I have built in engine bay fan control which the ZR was never set up for. Something to do with the engine being in the wrong end?
Engine bay. Big green lump at the front is the airbox. Fits a K and N cone filter, but has rails for a standard MGZR panel as well. Options, options... Draws air through a vent in the body directly above. I'll probably upgrade to a carbon airbox of my own design later on, and step up the induction pipe size, but will save these for later mods. This is the only car I've ever owned, despite having driven 500k miles in company vehicles, and it's a project for life so in the interests of short term cost and long term entertainment/ease of manufacture, GRP it is for now.
Few more photos with bodywork in progress, taken mostly at random...
The sharp eyed among you on this one may notice a hole in the body that runs between the top of the "buttresses" on the body. The whole car is literally 37" high, and will be midnight blue, so that's a slot for a high-level brake light. The average road user these days isn't always the most observant.
Seat for Chris's Chassis No 2., directly off the mould. Mine followed a couple of weeks later.
Interior largely assembled. All surfaces will be upholstered. There are good-sized storage bins outboard of the seats between the chassis and body with lockable lids, passenger side one almost fits Mrs' handbag. Drivers one is slightly deeper, as that has no coolant pipes below, so will be where the small socket set and jack will live. I can't describe how annoyed I'd be if I was left by the side of the road, in a car I'd built for want of a 10mm socket.
Supporting frame for spare wheel. Don't worry, will only be a space saver, and I'll be fitting a heatshield beneath. This will also double as the boot floor support, but I'm planning to make the entire boot box a removable item for those days when you want to drop a few kgs' and just go fast, like trackdays.
Apologies for small, crappy resolution pictures. They're way better than that on the phone, if anyone knows of a way for them to be uploaded full-size and resolution, please let me know.
I'll probably bung a few more photos on here as and when time allows, but for some reason despite normally liking my anonymity I felt the need to share my project.
By the way - because what I'm doing with this thing is pretty much prototyping, my build is a bit of an odd one. I basically am building the car all in one go, and then disassembling so I can coat the chassis and finish stuff off knowing that it all fits together. So despite currently being driveable and every last thing on it working, it does have to come to pieces again, right back to bare chassis at which time I'll panel it. Once all that's done, it's basically going to be much like most other kit car builds. First job on mine is to build the kit!!
Right, signing off for a bit. Time/boredom dependent, more photo updates at random.
Enjoy!
Hello hello!
Thank you both for the kind words. Didn’t expect any replies to that one, to be honest - much less any from another Costin owner. Congrats, I always liked the look of the F4, very pretty little beast.
There’s a fair amount of info on his designs floating around online, but since JoeT’s passing, not much on mine. So the short history is this...
Circa 1993 - Costin Ltd was founded with the original aim to reproduce Costin-Nathans with steel chassis, I believe. This was quickly determined not to be much of a money spinner, and someone decided instead that a fresh project would be a good one. This resulted in the Sports Roadster. One prototype was built which used an A-series (albeit a bloody powerful one, think it was a 1396 with a funky head and ginormous valves), had the same chassis as the ‘production’ car except for some slight differences around the engine bay, and no body to speak of.
Bill Barranco (Mk1 MX5 designer I believe) was contracted and had a bash at the body design, and Frank Costin designed the chassis and made sure Bill’s design had the air molecules moving the right way. Chassis number 2 (Chris Holloway’s car) was almost built, 5 other chassis were made and one other body, and... the money dried up.
Enter Joe Tavani and Chris Holloway on separate but related eBay adventures. Joe saw the white body that I now own on eBay, and decided ‘that looks nice. I’ll put my own chassis under that’, and set off to Wales. On arrival, history relates that the farmer that had the body knew another farmer that had the prototype, and HE knew another one that had the chassis. Turned out to be 5 more chassis and the complete body mould. Joe bought the lot.
Chris Holloway found the prototype (known affectionately as the Dustbin) also on eBay, and related searching led him to chassis number 2. He bought number 2, the Dustbin of course being number 1.
3 years pass, in which Joe repairs the body mould and has another pulled from it for his own use, planning to install a VVc. About that time, I got in touch with him with an interest in helping out. About 2 years later, we go to Detling with the black car. Nobody buys one, but the reception was favourable. Undefeated, back to Joe’s, and I take the white body, the only other original, a chassis and a load of wishbones home.
Joe sadly passed away about 6 months after that at the age of 42 from a rare form of meningitis.
About two years later, I finally pull my finger out, with what you saw in my last post.
Further technical detail;
Front uprights, hubs and rack - Chevette
Original drivetrain - Rover 100 GTi 1.4 16v
Target weight (for mine anyway!) around 590-600kg
Chassis - bespoke, properly stressed space frame in the truest sense of the word, I.e., all joints bendy and will still work.
Front suspension - bespoke unequal double wishbone
Rear suspension - DeDion, 4 parallel links and a Panhard rod.
I’m aiming for about 140bhp when the 1.4’s fully tweaked; she’s got a big valve DVA head and lumpy cams already, but is on the stock MEMS3 ECU until IVA at least.
On the subject of other Costins - I saw Protos at Goodwood FOS 7-8 years ago along with Frank Costin’s eldest son Ron, with whom he built it; awesome bit of kit!
Also found an Amigo for sale (which I couldn’t afford, but I went and sat in!), which is the one that raced LeMans in I think 69/70. Currently fitted with a firebreathing Blydenstein 2.3ltr Vauxhall slant four and weighing 630kg!
And... the prototype Costin-Nathan has been fully and magnificently restored, and is at Beaulieu. Roger Nathan took it for a spin with the owner around the grounds, and by one account, he was NOT hanging about...
There’s also a Costin-Nathan coupe space frame in build in Kent, which I believe is another one-off. Frank designed the space frame based on his monocoque (only he would do it that way round) in order to try and make the CNs cheaper to produce, but it never became a car. It was, however, the idea that led to mine, the Roadster.
Apologies for multiple posts, phone’s p!ssing about!!
More photos to follow if you’re not dead from boredom yet.
What’s the history of the F4?
Thank you both for the kind words. Didn’t expect any replies to that one, to be honest - much less any from another Costin owner. Congrats, I always liked the look of the F4, very pretty little beast.
There’s a fair amount of info on his designs floating around online, but since JoeT’s passing, not much on mine. So the short history is this...
Circa 1993 - Costin Ltd was founded with the original aim to reproduce Costin-Nathans with steel chassis, I believe. This was quickly determined not to be much of a money spinner, and someone decided instead that a fresh project would be a good one. This resulted in the Sports Roadster. One prototype was built which used an A-series (albeit a bloody powerful one, think it was a 1396 with a funky head and ginormous valves), had the same chassis as the ‘production’ car except for some slight differences around the engine bay, and no body to speak of.
Bill Barranco (Mk1 MX5 designer I believe) was contracted and had a bash at the body design, and Frank Costin designed the chassis and made sure Bill’s design had the air molecules moving the right way. Chassis number 2 (Chris Holloway’s car) was almost built, 5 other chassis were made and one other body, and... the money dried up.
Enter Joe Tavani and Chris Holloway on separate but related eBay adventures. Joe saw the white body that I now own on eBay, and decided ‘that looks nice. I’ll put my own chassis under that’, and set off to Wales. On arrival, history relates that the farmer that had the body knew another farmer that had the prototype, and HE knew another one that had the chassis. Turned out to be 5 more chassis and the complete body mould. Joe bought the lot.
Chris Holloway found the prototype (known affectionately as the Dustbin) also on eBay, and related searching led him to chassis number 2. He bought number 2, the Dustbin of course being number 1.
3 years pass, in which Joe repairs the body mould and has another pulled from it for his own use, planning to install a VVc. About that time, I got in touch with him with an interest in helping out. About 2 years later, we go to Detling with the black car. Nobody buys one, but the reception was favourable. Undefeated, back to Joe’s, and I take the white body, the only other original, a chassis and a load of wishbones home.
Joe sadly passed away about 6 months after that at the age of 42 from a rare form of meningitis.
About two years later, I finally pull my finger out, with what you saw in my last post.
Further technical detail;
Front uprights, hubs and rack - Chevette
Original drivetrain - Rover 100 GTi 1.4 16v
Target weight (for mine anyway!) around 590-600kg
Chassis - bespoke, properly stressed space frame in the truest sense of the word, I.e., all joints bendy and will still work.
Front suspension - bespoke unequal double wishbone
Rear suspension - DeDion, 4 parallel links and a Panhard rod.
I’m aiming for about 140bhp when the 1.4’s fully tweaked; she’s got a big valve DVA head and lumpy cams already, but is on the stock MEMS3 ECU until IVA at least.
On the subject of other Costins - I saw Protos at Goodwood FOS 7-8 years ago along with Frank Costin’s eldest son Ron, with whom he built it; awesome bit of kit!
Also found an Amigo for sale (which I couldn’t afford, but I went and sat in!), which is the one that raced LeMans in I think 69/70. Currently fitted with a firebreathing Blydenstein 2.3ltr Vauxhall slant four and weighing 630kg!
And... the prototype Costin-Nathan has been fully and magnificently restored, and is at Beaulieu. Roger Nathan took it for a spin with the owner around the grounds, and by one account, he was NOT hanging about...
There’s also a Costin-Nathan coupe space frame in build in Kent, which I believe is another one-off. Frank designed the space frame based on his monocoque (only he would do it that way round) in order to try and make the CNs cheaper to produce, but it never became a car. It was, however, the idea that led to mine, the Roadster.
Apologies for multiple posts, phone’s p!ssing about!!
More photos to follow if you’re not dead from boredom yet.
What’s the history of the F4?
I’ll try not to hijack in your thread but the F4 has quite a history.
My involvement with the cars of Johnny Walker goes back to quite a way to when I bought my first of their JW4 F4 cars as a restoration project. Over the subsequent 7 years I bought, restored and sold 3 more JW4’s and in the process acquired a lot of the factory archives which included some documents in relation to Walker’s collaboration with Frank Costin on the Costin Walker F4.
The Costin was something a bit different to my JW4’s and for Costin it was a break from his tradition of building wooden monocoques as instead he chose to adopt a space-frame construction; in his words to "carry it to its logical ultimate". The chassis of this car is reputed to be one of the stiffest space-frames ever produced for its weight.
I was interested to find the owner not to buy the car but I wanted to share some of the documents and drawings I had with them.
The documents I had described in great detail the history of the cars development and its ultimate sale. Only one prototype of the Costin Walker was built and this was debuted at the 1969 Racing Car show at Olympia. Between 1969 and 71 the car underwent some development first by Frank Costin and then later by Tony Hilder of Piper cars but The history of the prototype was short lived when in 1971 during an F4 race at Lydden, the car spun striking the bank which caused damage to the front suspension upright and steering rack. Rather than rebuilding the car a disillusioned and financially strained Walker sought to sell the car.
The cars remains passed through two subsequent owners but my breadcrumb trail ended with a magazine cutting from 1991 where then then owner of the remains was seeking information about it's past.
As luck would have it the owners name in the article was quite unusual and after a session of googling I was able to find somebody with the same name but also promisingly working in the motorsports industry. An enquiring email was sent and luck was again on my side as I had not only found the right person but also they were still the owner of the car having by then had it for nearly 40 years.
I arranged to meet the owner Denis and I was grateful that he was also willing to show me the car and fill in a few blanks about its history and whereabouts over the preceding years. Denis had bought the car in 1976, 5 years after its Lydden accident. back then it was in a sorry state having languished in a damp and draughty barn for 5 years and it's original 85bhp imp engine and jack knight gearbox had long since gone. After a period of storage Denis had set out to restore the car but at the time I first saw it in 2016 the car was still very much in pieces with very little worn having been completed. A pleasant afternoon was spent kicking tyres and talking cars then I went on my way back home. A few more emails were exchanged between us over the next few weeks as I found out more about the cars history and we shared information and then that was it.
Out of the blue last spring I received an email from Denis explaining that he was thinking of selling. I wasn't looking for another project as by now I was mid-way through the restoration of my third JW4 but this car meant something to me and these opportunities don't come along everyday. I'm not sure my partner Dawn entirely understands my passion about old cars or why I would pay quite what it did for a pile of dusty rotten old car parts designed by some slightly famous bloke but I nevertheless did.
I finally made a start on the restoration at the start of this year, Initially just loosely assembling the various parts to check fit and to see what’s missing. I’m at the stage now where It’s complete and the missing parts have all been fabricated but the original items still need quite a bit of attention to get them back to a useable condition.
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/62tQP3az.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/jUKuowLd" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/jUKuowLd.png[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/YgyNm3Ny" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/YgyNm3Ny.jpg)
My involvement with the cars of Johnny Walker goes back to quite a way to when I bought my first of their JW4 F4 cars as a restoration project. Over the subsequent 7 years I bought, restored and sold 3 more JW4’s and in the process acquired a lot of the factory archives which included some documents in relation to Walker’s collaboration with Frank Costin on the Costin Walker F4.
The Costin was something a bit different to my JW4’s and for Costin it was a break from his tradition of building wooden monocoques as instead he chose to adopt a space-frame construction; in his words to "carry it to its logical ultimate". The chassis of this car is reputed to be one of the stiffest space-frames ever produced for its weight.
I was interested to find the owner not to buy the car but I wanted to share some of the documents and drawings I had with them.
The documents I had described in great detail the history of the cars development and its ultimate sale. Only one prototype of the Costin Walker was built and this was debuted at the 1969 Racing Car show at Olympia. Between 1969 and 71 the car underwent some development first by Frank Costin and then later by Tony Hilder of Piper cars but The history of the prototype was short lived when in 1971 during an F4 race at Lydden, the car spun striking the bank which caused damage to the front suspension upright and steering rack. Rather than rebuilding the car a disillusioned and financially strained Walker sought to sell the car.
The cars remains passed through two subsequent owners but my breadcrumb trail ended with a magazine cutting from 1991 where then then owner of the remains was seeking information about it's past.
As luck would have it the owners name in the article was quite unusual and after a session of googling I was able to find somebody with the same name but also promisingly working in the motorsports industry. An enquiring email was sent and luck was again on my side as I had not only found the right person but also they were still the owner of the car having by then had it for nearly 40 years.
I arranged to meet the owner Denis and I was grateful that he was also willing to show me the car and fill in a few blanks about its history and whereabouts over the preceding years. Denis had bought the car in 1976, 5 years after its Lydden accident. back then it was in a sorry state having languished in a damp and draughty barn for 5 years and it's original 85bhp imp engine and jack knight gearbox had long since gone. After a period of storage Denis had set out to restore the car but at the time I first saw it in 2016 the car was still very much in pieces with very little worn having been completed. A pleasant afternoon was spent kicking tyres and talking cars then I went on my way back home. A few more emails were exchanged between us over the next few weeks as I found out more about the cars history and we shared information and then that was it.
Out of the blue last spring I received an email from Denis explaining that he was thinking of selling. I wasn't looking for another project as by now I was mid-way through the restoration of my third JW4 but this car meant something to me and these opportunities don't come along everyday. I'm not sure my partner Dawn entirely understands my passion about old cars or why I would pay quite what it did for a pile of dusty rotten old car parts designed by some slightly famous bloke but I nevertheless did.
I finally made a start on the restoration at the start of this year, Initially just loosely assembling the various parts to check fit and to see what’s missing. I’m at the stage now where It’s complete and the missing parts have all been fabricated but the original items still need quite a bit of attention to get them back to a useable condition.
Edited by smokey mow on Monday 1st June 18:19
That F4 is something of a handsome thing, for a Costin anyway, and a single seater at that! Certainly very purposeful, Frank sure knew how to complicate a space frame.
Interesting to see, like the CN spaceframe, there are two distinct generations. Mine is based on Frank’s later ‘modular’ concept, which was also used in the TMC Costin, and is substantially less complicated and again, derived from the monocoques. I think he looked at the planes he put the sheets in on the monos and then replaced each with a triangulated bulkhead, if you follow. The Roadster one is definitely extremely rigid, beautifully triangulated and fully self-determinate. It’s what drew me to the car in the first place!
Wonder what happened to the rollover pylon? I suspect probably didn’t pass scrutineering at some point in its’ past, plus if it’s the car I think it is, was the Imp engine a damn sight bigger than it was originally fitted with...?
Looks like a very entertaining project, I’m pleased myself, Chris H and co are not the only loons around. And you’re right, my Mrs couldn’t figure why I was so excited to find some Shuvit uprights and hubs on eBay aeons ago. They were actually my first part for the car; made my brother in law laugh actually. He was looking at building something Locosty at the time, and had found a set of Cortina uprights which he duly bought. In his own words ‘every car project begins with uprights!’
The appearance of ALL Costins divides opinion more than marmite. Mine has grown on me over the years, and whilst I wouldn’t change it, I wouldn’t describe it as beautiful myself. However, I clearly recall an instant from Detling on the second day with the black car.
There was a family with a pushchair, and the husband made a beeline for the Ferrari’d MR2s on the stand next to ours. His wife stopped, having noticed the black car, and went and grabbed her husband and said ‘you can build one of those if you like, that’s pretty’. They do seem to be something of a female-friendly shape, though I’m not entirely certain why.
Interesting to see, like the CN spaceframe, there are two distinct generations. Mine is based on Frank’s later ‘modular’ concept, which was also used in the TMC Costin, and is substantially less complicated and again, derived from the monocoques. I think he looked at the planes he put the sheets in on the monos and then replaced each with a triangulated bulkhead, if you follow. The Roadster one is definitely extremely rigid, beautifully triangulated and fully self-determinate. It’s what drew me to the car in the first place!
Wonder what happened to the rollover pylon? I suspect probably didn’t pass scrutineering at some point in its’ past, plus if it’s the car I think it is, was the Imp engine a damn sight bigger than it was originally fitted with...?
Looks like a very entertaining project, I’m pleased myself, Chris H and co are not the only loons around. And you’re right, my Mrs couldn’t figure why I was so excited to find some Shuvit uprights and hubs on eBay aeons ago. They were actually my first part for the car; made my brother in law laugh actually. He was looking at building something Locosty at the time, and had found a set of Cortina uprights which he duly bought. In his own words ‘every car project begins with uprights!’
The appearance of ALL Costins divides opinion more than marmite. Mine has grown on me over the years, and whilst I wouldn’t change it, I wouldn’t describe it as beautiful myself. However, I clearly recall an instant from Detling on the second day with the black car.
There was a family with a pushchair, and the husband made a beeline for the Ferrari’d MR2s on the stand next to ours. His wife stopped, having noticed the black car, and went and grabbed her husband and said ‘you can build one of those if you like, that’s pretty’. They do seem to be something of a female-friendly shape, though I’m not entirely certain why.
slowinfastout said:
Any update?
Not sure if you mean me or the OP but work on my Costin is still progressing albeit slowly at the moment.Mechanically it’s complete, rolling on its wheels and would run if I was to put fuel and oil in the engine and box. Final hurdle has been restoring the aluminium bodywork or more accurately , finding someone that can do it for a reasonable price.
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