Not a what car post - F87 M2 vs W205 C63s vs RS3 8V
Discussion
I've been lucky enough to own a good example of each of these over the last couple of years. They were all 2016 models worth circa £30-35k and in my eyes at least are all direct competitors to each other in the used car market (despite the C63s being the class above).
What I personally look for in a car is something that makes you proud to own it, you look back at it in the car park. It sounds great, it handles well on small A and B roads (which is really the only place you can exercise a modern performance car without ending up in prison). Power just needs to be 'ample' (whatever that means). Its all about making swift progress for me. It also needs to be good value, reasonably bork free and economical given I'm a Yorkshireman.
I thought I'd very briefly share my thoughts from an owners perspective on these three. My conclusions are probably a little contentious and against the norm.
Firstly came the F87 M2. I paid £33k at 6000 miles, I ran it for about 5 months and 4000 miles. Averaged 27mpg.
I enjoyed this car but ultimately felt the interior was lack luster and the engine just didn't have enough fizz for the money. I also found the DCT box a bit agricultural. In many ways I preferred my brothers M135i (mainly because it felt 90% of the car for £20k less).
Maybe with a few mods this could have been special but I didn't want to mod it as it was still in warrenty and those days are behind me.
Next came the C63s. I paid £36.5k at 36,000 miles. I ran it for 4 months and 6000miles. 22mpg in that time.
Widely regarded as 'the daddy' (in this small grouping anyway). Yes it was epicly fast, 503BHP and 700NM of torque always will be. The interior looked great and felt high quality. The seats were fantastic but it it creaked and rattled like a geriatric, probably because it was so stifly sprung and the NVH so bad even in comfort setting.
I was actually pretty disappointed in the quality of the interior in the end after trying it's replacement (The RS3). I enjoyed the noise it made and the odd bit of tail out action but ultimately I never jelled with it.
It felt like a one trick pony (fast in a straight line) and there was rarely the space to use all the performance other than a motorway slip road which quickly gets boring.
And last but not least, the underdog. The Audi RS3, I paid £30k at 42,000 miles.
Ok maybe I'm still in the honeymoon period with this one and to be fair this car does have a few choice mods which really bring it alive but wow. I think it's absolutely fantastic.
It sounds great (shock horror .. better than the C63!) ... I love the 4wd traction in all weathers. The DSG box is the best of the bunch. The interior is great and is near silent with no creaks or rattles and is nicer than the M2 whilst not being as fancy as the C63.
The magride means it's far more comfortable and rides better than both the Merc and BM whilst it's firm (but still rides great) in the sports setting. It handles very nicely and whilst it might tend to understeer at the limit...It doesn't really matter as I honestly don't think I'll be approaching those limits on a regular basis anyway.
I've been shocked how much I've instantly warmed to this RS3 when I really didn't think I would.
I think what owning these three cars has taught me is to a certain extent you've got to ignore what the magazines / bloggers and forum posters say about a car and make up your own decision after test driving each.
If you were to believe what you read the C63s should have been the 'best' suited to what I want followed by the M2 followed by the RS3 whereas in my humble opinion the opposite is true.
Any thoughts or similar musings?
What I personally look for in a car is something that makes you proud to own it, you look back at it in the car park. It sounds great, it handles well on small A and B roads (which is really the only place you can exercise a modern performance car without ending up in prison). Power just needs to be 'ample' (whatever that means). Its all about making swift progress for me. It also needs to be good value, reasonably bork free and economical given I'm a Yorkshireman.
I thought I'd very briefly share my thoughts from an owners perspective on these three. My conclusions are probably a little contentious and against the norm.
Firstly came the F87 M2. I paid £33k at 6000 miles, I ran it for about 5 months and 4000 miles. Averaged 27mpg.
I enjoyed this car but ultimately felt the interior was lack luster and the engine just didn't have enough fizz for the money. I also found the DCT box a bit agricultural. In many ways I preferred my brothers M135i (mainly because it felt 90% of the car for £20k less).
Maybe with a few mods this could have been special but I didn't want to mod it as it was still in warrenty and those days are behind me.
Next came the C63s. I paid £36.5k at 36,000 miles. I ran it for 4 months and 6000miles. 22mpg in that time.
Widely regarded as 'the daddy' (in this small grouping anyway). Yes it was epicly fast, 503BHP and 700NM of torque always will be. The interior looked great and felt high quality. The seats were fantastic but it it creaked and rattled like a geriatric, probably because it was so stifly sprung and the NVH so bad even in comfort setting.
I was actually pretty disappointed in the quality of the interior in the end after trying it's replacement (The RS3). I enjoyed the noise it made and the odd bit of tail out action but ultimately I never jelled with it.
It felt like a one trick pony (fast in a straight line) and there was rarely the space to use all the performance other than a motorway slip road which quickly gets boring.
And last but not least, the underdog. The Audi RS3, I paid £30k at 42,000 miles.
Ok maybe I'm still in the honeymoon period with this one and to be fair this car does have a few choice mods which really bring it alive but wow. I think it's absolutely fantastic.
It sounds great (shock horror .. better than the C63!) ... I love the 4wd traction in all weathers. The DSG box is the best of the bunch. The interior is great and is near silent with no creaks or rattles and is nicer than the M2 whilst not being as fancy as the C63.
The magride means it's far more comfortable and rides better than both the Merc and BM whilst it's firm (but still rides great) in the sports setting. It handles very nicely and whilst it might tend to understeer at the limit...It doesn't really matter as I honestly don't think I'll be approaching those limits on a regular basis anyway.
I've been shocked how much I've instantly warmed to this RS3 when I really didn't think I would.
I think what owning these three cars has taught me is to a certain extent you've got to ignore what the magazines / bloggers and forum posters say about a car and make up your own decision after test driving each.
If you were to believe what you read the C63s should have been the 'best' suited to what I want followed by the M2 followed by the RS3 whereas in my humble opinion the opposite is true.
Any thoughts or similar musings?
Edited by John Laverick on Wednesday 19th May 22:03
cerb4.5lee said:
I wouldn't say no to any of those, and they are all really nice I reckon. 
It is funny how we all like different things though, because I really like the DCT in my F82 M4...whereas I thought that the DSG in the Audi TTS I had was really poor, and the mag ride was miles too hard.
I really like the DCT too, it works well enough in auto and can feel, quite dramatic when on it. Everyone seems to think the M2 is a big step up from the 135/140 from a driving experience point of view. The interior is too similar in the OG to the lesser cars. Personally I really like the N55 and think it sounds great, better than the S55 or the B58 in my M140i.It is funny how we all like different things though, because I really like the DCT in my F82 M4...whereas I thought that the DSG in the Audi TTS I had was really poor, and the mag ride was miles too hard.
Not surprised to hear the OP’s comments on the Merc quality wise. The A and C class cars that I’ve experienced have been pretty underwhelming especially when you start prodding and poking them.
RS3’s do sound good, really good. I’ve not experienced one up close so can’t comment on the other bits.
Court_S said:
Not surprised to hear the OP’s comments on the Merc quality wise. The A and C class cars that I’ve experienced have been pretty underwhelming especially when you start prodding and poking them.
I always think about you when I'm in the GLC and there is a black piece of trim that goes around the centre console...and if you push it-it creaks and moves around a fair bit! However for me personally I really like the look of the Mercedes interior and I sat in the back the other day and I thought that the interior in the front looked really good(especially in comparison to a BMW interior because I've never liked the BMW interiors(they are very well screwed together though but just really bland to look at/sit in for me).
cerb4.5lee said:
I always think about you when I'm in the GLC and there is a black piece of trim that goes around the centre console...and if you push it-it creaks and moves around a fair bit!
However for me personally I really like the look of the Mercedes interior and I sat in the back the other day and I thought that the interior in the front looked really good(especially in comparison to a BMW interior because I've never liked the BMW interiors(they are very well screwed together though but just really bland to look at/sit in for me).
I think Merc used to make a good looking interior, they just weren’t very well made.However for me personally I really like the look of the Mercedes interior and I sat in the back the other day and I thought that the interior in the front looked really good(especially in comparison to a BMW interior because I've never liked the BMW interiors(they are very well screwed together though but just really bland to look at/sit in for me).
The latest ones are just chintz central. I hate them. I much prefer BMW’s latest offerings which feel like a big step up from the last of the F series cars....shame most are hideous now!
Court_S said:
I think Merc used to make a good looking interior, they just weren’t very well made.
The latest ones are just chintz central. I hate them. I much prefer BMW’s latest offerings which feel like a big step up from the last of the F series cars....shame most are hideous now!
It is the speedo/rev counter dials that I can't come to terms with in the recent BMW's(Merc and Audi do the digital thing far better for me)...and I don't know what they were thinking. BMW need to bring back analogue dials I reckon! The latest ones are just chintz central. I hate them. I much prefer BMW’s latest offerings which feel like a big step up from the last of the F series cars....shame most are hideous now!
cerb4.5lee said:
I wouldn't say no to any of those, and they are all really nice I reckon.
It is funny how we all like different things though, because I really like the DCT in my F82 M4...whereas I thought that the DSG in the Audi TTS I had was really poor, and the mag ride was miles too hard.
Just shows how people like different things I suppose. I only had very minor complaints about the low speed smoothness of the DCT box.It is funny how we all like different things though, because I really like the DCT in my F82 M4...whereas I thought that the DSG in the Audi TTS I had was really poor, and the mag ride was miles too hard.
I thought the ZF in my brothers M135i was better then the DCT overall. I find the DSG very smooth and just as fast as the DCT.
All were better than the gearbox in the C63!
Macron said:
How did you do depreciation wise? 4 months ownership for a C63, how did you move it on?
Interesting you say your modding days are behind you but the modded one is your fave! What’s been done to it?
I did a private PX of the C63 (plus cash my way) for the RS3 (I've only ever done this once before about 10 years ago).Interesting you say your modding days are behind you but the modded one is your fave! What’s been done to it?
My man maths works out that the C63 cost £1000 in depreciation plus a set of rear tyres (£400) in the 4 months and 6000 miles I had it. Not bad really for a car if this ilk and value.
When I say my modding days are over I mean I'm not paying for them. I don't mind buying a car tastefully modded by someone else though!
The RS3 has the following:
Stage 1 remap plus 2ndary cat removal, air filter and hard pipe plus intercooler. About 420bhp apparently.
It has eibach springs and H&R rear roll bar plus Reyland front discs and uprated pads.
All adds together into a nicely balanced package.
Edited by John Laverick on Thursday 20th May 18:12
John Laverick said:
Just shows how people like different things I suppose. I only had very minor complaints about the low speed smoothness of the DCT box.
I thought the ZF in my brothers M135i was better then the DCT overall. I find the DSG very smooth and just as fast as the DCT.
All were better than the gearbox in the C63!
Yes and it was the low speed stuff that I didn't like with the DSG(it was very good at the fast stuff though), but the DCT still suffers a bit with that though to be fair. I'm another big fan of the ZF8 and I had it in a 640d, I also much prefer the ZF8 to the 9 speed auto that I have in the GLC. I thought the ZF in my brothers M135i was better then the DCT overall. I find the DSG very smooth and just as fast as the DCT.
All were better than the gearbox in the C63!
I think BMW also prefer the ZF8 over their DCT as well, because the current M3/M4/M5 have lost the DCT and they have the ZF8 auto now.
cerb4.5lee said:
It is the speedo/rev counter dials that I can't come to terms with in the recent BMW's(Merc and Audi do the digital thing far better for me)...and I don't know what they were thinking. BMW need to bring back analogue dials I reckon!
True, I don’t like the latest BMW digital dials either; they’re ugly as sin. Personally really like the LCI2 dials in my 140i.cerb4.5lee said:
Yes and it was the low speed stuff that I didn't like with the DSG(it was very good at the fast stuff though), but the DCT still suffers a bit with that though to be fair. I'm another big fan of the ZF8 and I had it in a 640d, I also much prefer the ZF8 to the 9 speed auto that I have in the GLC.
I think BMW also prefer the ZF8 over their DCT as well, because the current M3/M4/M5 have lost the DCT and they have the ZF8 auto now.
Was the DCT not ditched because of the move to AWD? I’m guessing there are probably better economies of scale if they run the ZF8 too because they’ll be buying more.I think BMW also prefer the ZF8 over their DCT as well, because the current M3/M4/M5 have lost the DCT and they have the ZF8 auto now.
The ZF8 is a great gearbox. Mine was a later one so was very smooth even in sport, whereas the earlier M135i’s had a bit more of a shunt on up shifts.
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