1972 Alfa Romeo Guilia 2000 GT Veloce
Discussion
As requested in my Easter Car Buying Trip thread a RR thread for the car, which I will try and keep up to date.
Since selling my 996 last summer I’ve been undecided about what to replace it with. I wanted something fun to drive, with enough space to go away for a weekend with my wife and the dog which ruled out most 2 seaters, and ideally relatively cheap to run. If a classic I wanted something with readily available spares and repair panels, old cars rust and I don’t have the time for fabricating or the appetite to pay for fabrication of panels.
I’d looked at MGBs with a view to doing a Zetec engine swap and possible Frontline suspension upgrades, but there wasn’t any overlap between what a solid car now sells for and what I was prepared to pay. If a 944 S2 was a decade older and tax exempt I would probably have had one of those last year! I’ve fancied an Elise S1 for years, but it would hardly get used. I came close to buying a Abarth 595 and Clio 182 Trophy, thinking my wife can use it instead of the Caravelle day to day, but she wasn’t keen on either.
Then I stumbled upon this 1972 Alfa Romeo Giulia 2000 GT Veloce. I’ve always admired the looks of the 105 series coupes, but thought they were beyond me. This wasn’t as it’s tatty but solid, the only exception to that being the boot opening channel/gutter which is holed. Maybe tatty is being unfair to it, it’s a 6ft car. It ticks all the boxes, and with the added bonus that anything I spend on it is likely to add to its value.
A few pictures from the advert:
It has a twin spark engine from an Alfa 75 which is a pretty common engine swap, as used by Alfaholics in their GTA-R. The early 8v twin sparks were an evolution of the Nord twin cam engine, so it uses the original engine mounts, sump etc. This one is still running the 75 fuel injection/inlet and variable valve timing (I was surprised for a 1987 engine!). It has some other nice Alfaholics bits including full exhaust, suspension, front anti roll bar, and GTA wheels.
There was one downside, it was 600 miles away in Elgin. After many messages, images and conversations with the seller a number of agreed, and a plan hatched for an Easter road trip to collect it. It was a long 5week wait to see the car!
We made a family trip of it, minus the dog who we left with friends, stopping with family, and to see a famous wizarding viaduct and steam train. I love the west of Scotland, and the drive across following the Caledonian canal, Loch Lochy and Loch Ness didn’t disappoint either.
On collection the car was found better than expected, what had appeared to be rust setting into the joints between bonnet skin and frame was cavity wax, and the hoard of spares was even more plentiful than expected!
Loaded up
At Cairn Lodge services, a services with a castle is a first for me!
The Caravelle did admirably, and despite being on the rivet in 4th up most of the hills on the return it did 32mpg over 1450miles, cruising at a smidge under 70. Our first long trip in that too.
Trailer duly returned on route I drove the car the last 110miles back, and my local nice roads route with each child once back. The steering is wonderfully direct, but is very keen to follow the tramlines on the motorway with its current setup.
It’s pretty noisy on the motorway so I was glad of my noise cancelling headphones, there’s a straight through rear exhaust box on it at moment so I could still enjoy the engine noise over The Intercooler's Alfa episode & Chris Harris’ podcast!
There’s not too much that needs doing, but the list as it currently stands:
- Investigate a large dead zone at top of brake pedal. The slop at the top of the pedal is disconcerting and isn’t nicely matched to the very short throttle travel, not ideal for heal and toe. These dual circuit system cars are notoriously difficult to bleed and need a caliper on each circuit to the bled simultaneously.
- Investigate smell of petrol in garage, I will probably replace all rubber hoses except the cooling ones which have been done recently.
- Remove dukes of hazards air horns!!
- Relocate Alfa 75 relays from the inner wing as the bonnet stay currently rests on one of them.
- Add switched usb sockets to cabin.
- Add rear seat belts (the mounting points are there but it never had them)
- Refit rear exhaust silencer
I haven’t spent any significant time underneath it yet, hopefully I’ll have a chance this weekend and will report back with my findings. Hopefully nothing horrific!
Since selling my 996 last summer I’ve been undecided about what to replace it with. I wanted something fun to drive, with enough space to go away for a weekend with my wife and the dog which ruled out most 2 seaters, and ideally relatively cheap to run. If a classic I wanted something with readily available spares and repair panels, old cars rust and I don’t have the time for fabricating or the appetite to pay for fabrication of panels.
I’d looked at MGBs with a view to doing a Zetec engine swap and possible Frontline suspension upgrades, but there wasn’t any overlap between what a solid car now sells for and what I was prepared to pay. If a 944 S2 was a decade older and tax exempt I would probably have had one of those last year! I’ve fancied an Elise S1 for years, but it would hardly get used. I came close to buying a Abarth 595 and Clio 182 Trophy, thinking my wife can use it instead of the Caravelle day to day, but she wasn’t keen on either.
Then I stumbled upon this 1972 Alfa Romeo Giulia 2000 GT Veloce. I’ve always admired the looks of the 105 series coupes, but thought they were beyond me. This wasn’t as it’s tatty but solid, the only exception to that being the boot opening channel/gutter which is holed. Maybe tatty is being unfair to it, it’s a 6ft car. It ticks all the boxes, and with the added bonus that anything I spend on it is likely to add to its value.
A few pictures from the advert:
It has a twin spark engine from an Alfa 75 which is a pretty common engine swap, as used by Alfaholics in their GTA-R. The early 8v twin sparks were an evolution of the Nord twin cam engine, so it uses the original engine mounts, sump etc. This one is still running the 75 fuel injection/inlet and variable valve timing (I was surprised for a 1987 engine!). It has some other nice Alfaholics bits including full exhaust, suspension, front anti roll bar, and GTA wheels.
There was one downside, it was 600 miles away in Elgin. After many messages, images and conversations with the seller a number of agreed, and a plan hatched for an Easter road trip to collect it. It was a long 5week wait to see the car!
We made a family trip of it, minus the dog who we left with friends, stopping with family, and to see a famous wizarding viaduct and steam train. I love the west of Scotland, and the drive across following the Caledonian canal, Loch Lochy and Loch Ness didn’t disappoint either.
On collection the car was found better than expected, what had appeared to be rust setting into the joints between bonnet skin and frame was cavity wax, and the hoard of spares was even more plentiful than expected!
Loaded up
At Cairn Lodge services, a services with a castle is a first for me!
The Caravelle did admirably, and despite being on the rivet in 4th up most of the hills on the return it did 32mpg over 1450miles, cruising at a smidge under 70. Our first long trip in that too.
Trailer duly returned on route I drove the car the last 110miles back, and my local nice roads route with each child once back. The steering is wonderfully direct, but is very keen to follow the tramlines on the motorway with its current setup.
It’s pretty noisy on the motorway so I was glad of my noise cancelling headphones, there’s a straight through rear exhaust box on it at moment so I could still enjoy the engine noise over The Intercooler's Alfa episode & Chris Harris’ podcast!
There’s not too much that needs doing, but the list as it currently stands:
- Investigate a large dead zone at top of brake pedal. The slop at the top of the pedal is disconcerting and isn’t nicely matched to the very short throttle travel, not ideal for heal and toe. These dual circuit system cars are notoriously difficult to bleed and need a caliper on each circuit to the bled simultaneously.
- Investigate smell of petrol in garage, I will probably replace all rubber hoses except the cooling ones which have been done recently.
- Remove dukes of hazards air horns!!
- Relocate Alfa 75 relays from the inner wing as the bonnet stay currently rests on one of them.
- Add switched usb sockets to cabin.
- Add rear seat belts (the mounting points are there but it never had them)
- Refit rear exhaust silencer
I haven’t spent any significant time underneath it yet, hopefully I’ll have a chance this weekend and will report back with my findings. Hopefully nothing horrific!
Excellent well done, welcome to the world of 105 Alfa’s’. I will follow the thread. I think I remember this one popping up, I’m currently trying to sell one so keeping a close eye on the market.
You might realise yours has the front grill from an earlier 1750 GTV, that’s a good thing to me, it’s much prettier.
The 8V single plug Nord engine as fitted at the time in a Spider was the first in the world to use variable valve timing, even before the twin spark.
You should be able to take that slack out of the brake pedal, but be careful because it’s very easy to find the brakes jammed on, the dual circuit master cylinder is a bit weird like that.
Edit
Other interesting oddities on yours, no bumper over riders and cloverleaf not serpent badges on the rear pillars. Nice.
Am I only seeing two vent slots under the grill? Very unusual for a 2000GTV is that.
You might realise yours has the front grill from an earlier 1750 GTV, that’s a good thing to me, it’s much prettier.
The 8V single plug Nord engine as fitted at the time in a Spider was the first in the world to use variable valve timing, even before the twin spark.
You should be able to take that slack out of the brake pedal, but be careful because it’s very easy to find the brakes jammed on, the dual circuit master cylinder is a bit weird like that.
Edit
Other interesting oddities on yours, no bumper over riders and cloverleaf not serpent badges on the rear pillars. Nice.
Am I only seeing two vent slots under the grill? Very unusual for a 2000GTV is that.
Edited by velocemitch on Friday 25th April 07:33
velocemitch said:
Excellent well done, welcome to the world of 105 Alfa’s’. I will follow the thread. I think I remember this one popping up, I’m currently trying to sell one so keeping a close eye on the market.
You might realise yours has the front grill from an earlier 1750 GTV, that’s a good thing to me, it’s much prettier.
The 8V single plug Nord engine as fitted at the time in a Spider was the first in the world to use variable valve timing, even before the twin spark.
You should be able to take that slack out of the brake pedal, but be careful because it’s very easy to find the brakes jammed on, the dual circuit master cylinder is a bit weird like that.
Edit
Other interesting oddities on yours, no bumper over riders and cloverleaf not serpent badges on the rear pillars. Nice.
Am I only seeing two vent slots under the grill? Very unusual for a 2000GTV is that.
I’m aware of most of that lot, and have the original bits. I will check the slots below the grill, the front valence has been replaced but maybe that included the lower grille. You might realise yours has the front grill from an earlier 1750 GTV, that’s a good thing to me, it’s much prettier.
The 8V single plug Nord engine as fitted at the time in a Spider was the first in the world to use variable valve timing, even before the twin spark.
You should be able to take that slack out of the brake pedal, but be careful because it’s very easy to find the brakes jammed on, the dual circuit master cylinder is a bit weird like that.
Edit
Other interesting oddities on yours, no bumper over riders and cloverleaf not serpent badges on the rear pillars. Nice.
Am I only seeing two vent slots under the grill? Very unusual for a 2000GTV is that.
Edited by velocemitch on Friday 25th April 07:33
HughG said:
velocemitch said:
Excellent well done, welcome to the world of 105 Alfa’s’. I will follow the thread. I think I remember this one popping up, I’m currently trying to sell one so keeping a close eye on the market.
You might realise yours has the front grill from an earlier 1750 GTV, that’s a good thing to me, it’s much prettier.
The 8V single plug Nord engine as fitted at the time in a Spider was the first in the world to use variable valve timing, even before the twin spark.
You should be able to take that slack out of the brake pedal, but be careful because it’s very easy to find the brakes jammed on, the dual circuit master cylinder is a bit weird like that.
Edit
Other interesting oddities on yours, no bumper over riders and cloverleaf not serpent badges on the rear pillars. Nice.
Am I only seeing two vent slots under the grill? Very unusual for a 2000GTV is that.
I’m aware of most of that lot, and have the original bits. I will check the slots below the grill, the front valence has been replaced but maybe that included the lower grille. You might realise yours has the front grill from an earlier 1750 GTV, that’s a good thing to me, it’s much prettier.
The 8V single plug Nord engine as fitted at the time in a Spider was the first in the world to use variable valve timing, even before the twin spark.
You should be able to take that slack out of the brake pedal, but be careful because it’s very easy to find the brakes jammed on, the dual circuit master cylinder is a bit weird like that.
Edit
Other interesting oddities on yours, no bumper over riders and cloverleaf not serpent badges on the rear pillars. Nice.
Am I only seeing two vent slots under the grill? Very unusual for a 2000GTV is that.
Edited by velocemitch on Friday 25th April 07:33
There’s an early press photo somewhere which shows one with just 2 as well.
velocemitch said:
I’m interested to know because I’ve only ever seen one 2000GTV with two slots……. Mine! It’s original too. I believe the very first ones had that, then they changed to four. Yours being a 1972 car will be an early one too.
There’s an early press photo somewhere which shows one with just 2 as well.
There’s an early press photo somewhere which shows one with just 2 as well.
I’m afraid the other holes were just hidden!
Part of my justification for buying a classic was that it doesn’t matter too much if it sits and doesn’t get used, and I can take my time fixings things. Well that has come to be, the problem now is that I want something drivable, so I need to get on with this before I do something silly and buy a 987 Boxster or 2ZZ MR2. A convertible would round off the fleet nicely though…
So to start bringing things up to date.
Late last summer the smell of fuel in the garage was getting pretty bad. The boot of the car also smells of fuel, and the lift pump fitment in the tank isn’t particularly satisfactory, so I had put it down to that. Until I went to move the car shortly after parking it and found a patch on the floor.
Investigation revealed the 2 rubber lines from the hardlines to the fuel regulator which are well buried under the Alfa 75 inlet to be pretty nasty.
I was hoping to use the car the following day, and as thoughts of a standalone ECU and throttle bodies over the winter were already well established, I didn’t think I could go too far wrong with fuel hose from Amazon as a short term fix. The only hose on prime rated for injection system was braided, so I ordered that. I initially struggled to get these to seal onto the hard lines, then removed the braid locally to the clamp and it sealed up fine, but split the hose between the clamp and the braid. So that was that, next stop throttle bodies.
So to start bringing things up to date.
Late last summer the smell of fuel in the garage was getting pretty bad. The boot of the car also smells of fuel, and the lift pump fitment in the tank isn’t particularly satisfactory, so I had put it down to that. Until I went to move the car shortly after parking it and found a patch on the floor.
Investigation revealed the 2 rubber lines from the hardlines to the fuel regulator which are well buried under the Alfa 75 inlet to be pretty nasty.
I was hoping to use the car the following day, and as thoughts of a standalone ECU and throttle bodies over the winter were already well established, I didn’t think I could go too far wrong with fuel hose from Amazon as a short term fix. The only hose on prime rated for injection system was braided, so I ordered that. I initially struggled to get these to seal onto the hard lines, then removed the braid locally to the clamp and it sealed up fine, but split the hose between the clamp and the braid. So that was that, next stop throttle bodies.
Watching this thread.
Seems like we have exactly the same tastes, I was even looking at this car when it was for sale I think and looking at visiting it while dropping in on the inlaws.
Every car you have mentioned I've either lusted after or owned, even down to the 2zz MR2, but I've not been brave enough to drop into the world of classic cars... Yet. Very nearly with a mx5 converted MGB.
Currently enjoying my Caterham, but Guilia had to be one of my favourite classics.
Seems like we have exactly the same tastes, I was even looking at this car when it was for sale I think and looking at visiting it while dropping in on the inlaws.
Every car you have mentioned I've either lusted after or owned, even down to the 2zz MR2, but I've not been brave enough to drop into the world of classic cars... Yet. Very nearly with a mx5 converted MGB.
Currently enjoying my Caterham, but Guilia had to be one of my favourite classics.
Dift said:
Watching this thread.
Seems like we have exactly the same tastes, I was even looking at this car when it was for sale I think and looking at visiting it while dropping in on the inlaws.
Every car you have mentioned I've either lusted after or owned, even down to the 2zz MR2, but I've not been brave enough to drop into the world of classic cars... Yet. Very nearly with a mx5 converted MGB.
Currently enjoying my Caterham, but Guilia had to be one of my favourite classics.
Yes it sounds like it. There’s in your garage that I have considered at some point too! Seems like we have exactly the same tastes, I was even looking at this car when it was for sale I think and looking at visiting it while dropping in on the inlaws.
Every car you have mentioned I've either lusted after or owned, even down to the 2zz MR2, but I've not been brave enough to drop into the world of classic cars... Yet. Very nearly with a mx5 converted MGB.
Currently enjoying my Caterham, but Guilia had to be one of my favourite classics.
so this is also a trial post! I found a reasonably priced set of Jnvey DCOE 45mm on a Zetec manifold with throttle mechanism, fuel rail, air intake temp sensor and throttle position sensors. I knew I'd need a different fuel rail, and a bit more digging post purchase shows that it was from a Ginetta running a 1.8 with injectors only rated for 125hp.
Jenvey do lots of injectors, Pico this and Bosch that, starting from about £100 each, so set costs almost as much as I paid for the throttle bodies
I decided to try some equivalent Ford/Bosch ones from a ST170 which are rates for 330cc / 230hp, a set of 4 for £26 refurbished, or if they are duff but fit/work, then £100/set new.
Meanwhile I was researching ECU options and Alfaholics do a 3d mappable kit, which it transpires is an Emerald K6+. I toyed with the idea of building a megajolt system, but decided on it was worth paying for the establish/supported route and base map as a decent starting point.
I found details of suitable inlet manifolds from Jenvey, Alfaholics and AHM. Alfaholics were the only one of the 3 who I could get hold of to discuss availability and spacing, so I ordered one of theirs, a gasket, distributor blanking plates, silicone hoses set along with the ECU.
I got the Alfa 75 induction system off and wasn't very pleased with how the fuel hardlines were fitted. I scratched my head for a bit trying to work out exactly what they are (they measure as 13.0mm OD) and the best way to support them, something along the lines of bulkhead fittings and a bracket, but what fittings!
So this is how it sat for most of the winter waiting for me to have a lightbulb moment on the fuel lines, time to investigate further, or the weather to warm up so I want to start driving it again!
Jenvey do lots of injectors, Pico this and Bosch that, starting from about £100 each, so set costs almost as much as I paid for the throttle bodies
I decided to try some equivalent Ford/Bosch ones from a ST170 which are rates for 330cc / 230hp, a set of 4 for £26 refurbished, or if they are duff but fit/work, then £100/set new.
Meanwhile I was researching ECU options and Alfaholics do a 3d mappable kit, which it transpires is an Emerald K6+. I toyed with the idea of building a megajolt system, but decided on it was worth paying for the establish/supported route and base map as a decent starting point.
I found details of suitable inlet manifolds from Jenvey, Alfaholics and AHM. Alfaholics were the only one of the 3 who I could get hold of to discuss availability and spacing, so I ordered one of theirs, a gasket, distributor blanking plates, silicone hoses set along with the ECU.
I got the Alfa 75 induction system off and wasn't very pleased with how the fuel hardlines were fitted. I scratched my head for a bit trying to work out exactly what they are (they measure as 13.0mm OD) and the best way to support them, something along the lines of bulkhead fittings and a bracket, but what fittings!
So this is how it sat for most of the winter waiting for me to have a lightbulb moment on the fuel lines, time to investigate further, or the weather to warm up so I want to start driving it again!
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