1999 Citroen Saxo VTR 16v - The (very) subtle sleeper
Discussion
Ok so everybody's idea of a sleeper might be an E30 BMW with an M5 V10 shoe-horned into it, but this little Saxo my girlfriend has owned for around 6 and a half years can be a bit of a giggle when you want it to be! It's not a heroic track car, or a fibreglass bodykitted stain, it's a road car, pure and simple. It's used everyday, rarely washed, sometimes serviced and never fails to deliver a smile to your face when you find a decent bit of road. Here's a brief history of old reliable:
It's 2004 and I haven't yet met the lady in question, but she bought the car to use to travel to and from Uni in Jan 2004, believing that once Uni had finished, the car would move on and so would she. It was a tool really, not a lot more:
In 2005, I met my future girlfriend (and the mother of my future kids!) and had just sold a Saxo myself (a 1.4 modified for looks....I know I know
)
I managed to persuede her to remove the plastic/chrome numberplate trims, and one day while she was at work I took her headlamps apart and sprayed the insides black with rattle cans. £130 IN-Pro headlamps for the princely sum of £8. Result.
Next I convinced her that lowering the car was the way to go. I think she liked the looks, I liked the lack of body-roll (the side effect being a lack of suspension travel). The car also employed a set of mk1.5 rear lamps for a short while, not that anyone other than a Saxo geek will tell the difference without comparing pics!
2006 brought fame and fortune to the little French tin (without any actual fortune and a very slight amount of fame on Discovery channel). Chris Barrie's production team for his new "Massive Speed" series were hunting down a bog standard original Saxo among the Saxo interweb forums (a tall order you'll agree!). With a standard car lined up to appear next to the each-to-their-own modified version, the team were happy. At the last minute, the standard car had to pull out and Nat's little VTR was draughted in:
Now Chris Barrie, although no dwarf (no pun intended) is not a giant man. He does look giant compared with the height of that bonnet, but the team remained proffessional and overlooked the fact that the 'stock' car was at least an inch lower than the modified one:
Later in the year, a set of Xsara VTR alloy wheels appeared on eBay, priced at £120 or so. Given that these were also used as Saxo VTS wheels, which regularly sold for £250-£300 at the time, the word 'Xsara' in the auction title halved their value happily. Within days they're found their way onto the VTR:
2007 was a quiet year for the Saxo. It continued to provide daily transportation, often averaging 40mpg and asking for nothing more than wear and tear parts expected of a car of that vintage. One of these parts was a replacement radiator, which was upgraded to a 520mm core VTS spec unit:
2008 saw chav activity one the front and rear of the Saxo. A Xsara VTR I had owned for about 3months had arrived in my hands wearing a "cherished" reg of M3 VTR. After a brief attempt to release the money from this rather cheesey accessory, the decision was made that it was no longer cheesey and in fact very cool. A second decision was made (about 30mins later) that this would make an ideal birthday present for the beloved girlfriend and the details processed:
(Now we could shout to the world "Look! A Saxo VTR!!!")
Sadly, you may be shocked to hear that over the years, the Saxo as a model has attracted a certain breed of owners who are less savoury characters than the good folk of PH. We'll call them, I dunno....chavs or something. It's a sad fact that for every sound, decently prepared or standard Saxo, there is a 4 wheeled abortion owned by these "chavs" to equal it.
Sadly, a pair of these "chavs" found the little VTR and decided they wished to purchase some parts from it, but without exchanging any funds or permission:
The police came, covered the car in dust, sang the praises of their fingerprint database and got shirty with me for suggesting it'll be hard to track the buggers down, before ringing 4 days later to conclude they hadn't managed to track the buggers down. I saw a Saxo with two missing arches about 3 miles away being driven by two "chavs", who on seeing the VTR started to race away as fast as possible. I got all the details and the rough area they were from, handed them to the police and waited to be told they didn't have any reason to question them. We then recieved a questionaire from Hampshire police two weeks later, asking if we were happy with the service we recieved
Anyway, I think this is called digressing...
The year 2009 made up for this. The arches were duly replaced once we'd moved house (because of pregnancy, not chavs) and the car spruced back up to spec:
Sometime later I found myself in possesion of a rotten mk1 VTS. Weeks later the VTR engine fell out of the VTR and landed on my garage floor:
While I had the VTS parts sat around, it seemed a missed oppourtunity not to upgrade the car 30bhp or so! The front end ended up looking like this:
With a bit of lifting, bolting, wiring and swearing, 24hrs later we were lift-off!
However, in that 24hrs, I'd attempted to remove the cambelt cover and replace the cambelt. Seemed silly not to really. But it would be even sillier to round off a bolt, dread having to drill the bolt out and decide to peer through the top of the cover at a belt that had done ?K miles (101,000 as it turned out!) and decide it was probably ok for another 6months and my limited free time was running out.
3 weeks later, while enjoying the 135bhp/ton and close-ratio gearing, I had a premonition of the cambelt snapping. It had happened to me before. I felt a shudder down my spine, pulled out of the petrol station and drove off telling myself to snap out of it (these puns get worse!)
10 minutes later, the engine died. 2 weeks later I removed the valves:
One very snapped cambelt and 12 very bent valves (number one piston surviving everything oddly enough)
The head was rebuilt with fresh valves, new head gasket, new timing belt and tensioner and new water pump. Lesson learned!
Fast-forward to 2010 and the Saxo still plods on. The VTS lump and short gearing have shaved 5mpg off the average return, but it's a small pay-off for the fact you're driving a car everyone (who cares that is) is sure has 90bhp. Given that you often get pushed around by 318i's, A4 1.9TDI's and other Saxo VTR's, it's a good defanition of a sleeper on a small scale!
To rein in the rampant 120 French stallions however, the brakes were upgraded. Standard VTS' use the same brakes as the VTR. They're rubbish in both. Que Xsara VTS/306 GTi-6 283mm upgrade:
And that's where we are now! The front suspension is rattling it's nuts off, and I have a Magnex full stainless system to fit (complete with boy racer 3.5inch tailpipe....but it was cheaper than a standard new system). But otherwise the little chav chariot continues it's daily service while being thrapped to death in the name of hot hatch fun. Essay over!
It's 2004 and I haven't yet met the lady in question, but she bought the car to use to travel to and from Uni in Jan 2004, believing that once Uni had finished, the car would move on and so would she. It was a tool really, not a lot more:
In 2005, I met my future girlfriend (and the mother of my future kids!) and had just sold a Saxo myself (a 1.4 modified for looks....I know I know
)I managed to persuede her to remove the plastic/chrome numberplate trims, and one day while she was at work I took her headlamps apart and sprayed the insides black with rattle cans. £130 IN-Pro headlamps for the princely sum of £8. Result.
Next I convinced her that lowering the car was the way to go. I think she liked the looks, I liked the lack of body-roll (the side effect being a lack of suspension travel). The car also employed a set of mk1.5 rear lamps for a short while, not that anyone other than a Saxo geek will tell the difference without comparing pics!
2006 brought fame and fortune to the little French tin (without any actual fortune and a very slight amount of fame on Discovery channel). Chris Barrie's production team for his new "Massive Speed" series were hunting down a bog standard original Saxo among the Saxo interweb forums (a tall order you'll agree!). With a standard car lined up to appear next to the each-to-their-own modified version, the team were happy. At the last minute, the standard car had to pull out and Nat's little VTR was draughted in:
Now Chris Barrie, although no dwarf (no pun intended) is not a giant man. He does look giant compared with the height of that bonnet, but the team remained proffessional and overlooked the fact that the 'stock' car was at least an inch lower than the modified one:
Later in the year, a set of Xsara VTR alloy wheels appeared on eBay, priced at £120 or so. Given that these were also used as Saxo VTS wheels, which regularly sold for £250-£300 at the time, the word 'Xsara' in the auction title halved their value happily. Within days they're found their way onto the VTR:
2007 was a quiet year for the Saxo. It continued to provide daily transportation, often averaging 40mpg and asking for nothing more than wear and tear parts expected of a car of that vintage. One of these parts was a replacement radiator, which was upgraded to a 520mm core VTS spec unit:
2008 saw chav activity one the front and rear of the Saxo. A Xsara VTR I had owned for about 3months had arrived in my hands wearing a "cherished" reg of M3 VTR. After a brief attempt to release the money from this rather cheesey accessory, the decision was made that it was no longer cheesey and in fact very cool. A second decision was made (about 30mins later) that this would make an ideal birthday present for the beloved girlfriend and the details processed:
(Now we could shout to the world "Look! A Saxo VTR!!!")
Sadly, you may be shocked to hear that over the years, the Saxo as a model has attracted a certain breed of owners who are less savoury characters than the good folk of PH. We'll call them, I dunno....chavs or something. It's a sad fact that for every sound, decently prepared or standard Saxo, there is a 4 wheeled abortion owned by these "chavs" to equal it.
Sadly, a pair of these "chavs" found the little VTR and decided they wished to purchase some parts from it, but without exchanging any funds or permission:
The police came, covered the car in dust, sang the praises of their fingerprint database and got shirty with me for suggesting it'll be hard to track the buggers down, before ringing 4 days later to conclude they hadn't managed to track the buggers down. I saw a Saxo with two missing arches about 3 miles away being driven by two "chavs", who on seeing the VTR started to race away as fast as possible. I got all the details and the rough area they were from, handed them to the police and waited to be told they didn't have any reason to question them. We then recieved a questionaire from Hampshire police two weeks later, asking if we were happy with the service we recieved
Anyway, I think this is called digressing...The year 2009 made up for this. The arches were duly replaced once we'd moved house (because of pregnancy, not chavs) and the car spruced back up to spec:
Sometime later I found myself in possesion of a rotten mk1 VTS. Weeks later the VTR engine fell out of the VTR and landed on my garage floor:
While I had the VTS parts sat around, it seemed a missed oppourtunity not to upgrade the car 30bhp or so! The front end ended up looking like this:
With a bit of lifting, bolting, wiring and swearing, 24hrs later we were lift-off!
However, in that 24hrs, I'd attempted to remove the cambelt cover and replace the cambelt. Seemed silly not to really. But it would be even sillier to round off a bolt, dread having to drill the bolt out and decide to peer through the top of the cover at a belt that had done ?K miles (101,000 as it turned out!) and decide it was probably ok for another 6months and my limited free time was running out.
3 weeks later, while enjoying the 135bhp/ton and close-ratio gearing, I had a premonition of the cambelt snapping. It had happened to me before. I felt a shudder down my spine, pulled out of the petrol station and drove off telling myself to snap out of it (these puns get worse!)
10 minutes later, the engine died. 2 weeks later I removed the valves:
One very snapped cambelt and 12 very bent valves (number one piston surviving everything oddly enough)
The head was rebuilt with fresh valves, new head gasket, new timing belt and tensioner and new water pump. Lesson learned!
Fast-forward to 2010 and the Saxo still plods on. The VTS lump and short gearing have shaved 5mpg off the average return, but it's a small pay-off for the fact you're driving a car everyone (who cares that is) is sure has 90bhp. Given that you often get pushed around by 318i's, A4 1.9TDI's and other Saxo VTR's, it's a good defanition of a sleeper on a small scale!
To rein in the rampant 120 French stallions however, the brakes were upgraded. Standard VTS' use the same brakes as the VTR. They're rubbish in both. Que Xsara VTS/306 GTi-6 283mm upgrade:
And that's where we are now! The front suspension is rattling it's nuts off, and I have a Magnex full stainless system to fit (complete with boy racer 3.5inch tailpipe....but it was cheaper than a standard new system). But otherwise the little chav chariot continues it's daily service while being thrapped to death in the name of hot hatch fun. Essay over!
Nice little car, But
randlemarcus said:
So aside from changing the lights, the wheels, the wheel arches, and shoving a bean
tin on the back, it looks like a french hatch, which are rare for their standard running yes?
Good sleeper, chap...
I have to say I agree.. 30bhp doesnt really ofset the exterior mods you madetin on the back, it looks like a french hatch, which are rare for their standard running yes?
Good sleeper, chap...
I'd point you towards
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
As an example of how to do sleeper properly.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
As an example of how to do sleeper properly.
Think people might be misreading this....I use the term 'sleeper' very lightly! It's purely a sleeper to anyone who thinks it's a VTR. It's not a sleeper in the grand scheme of things really is it? It's more of a history thread on one of my cars, that's all. You know, petrolhead website and all that!
slipstream 1985 said:
hmm, would it not have been cheaper to put vtr badge and plastic strips on a vts to start with? however you obviously have some sense as i spy a tvr in the garage. 
Haha yes, that's our Chim. She was thinking about switching the VTR for a Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo but decided to hang onto it and plan to get the dream TVR of hers too, which luckily worked out. The Saxo is my daily commuter, the TVR is the weekend toy! Normally, yeah it would be cheaper to rebadge a VTR (if you actually set out to do this intentionally!), but basically the O/H had owned the car for such a long time, we knew it inside out. She's also very attatched to it, in fact she had previously considered the upgrade to a VTS but having to get rid of the VTR was one of the negatives on the pros/cons list. She said this Saxo with the VTS engine would be the ideal solution, but wasn't cost effective to do.
But....I ended up with a 1998 VTS with rotten chassis legs a year or so later. There was never a plan to fit a VTS setup to this car, it just so happened that it seemed rude not to! The VTS owed me very little, so I sold what I didn't need off it (which paid for the car) and then used the engine and gearbox etc in the VTR. I then sold the VTR engine on (as it was in very good health) and actually ended up in the green. When we informed the insurance about the conversion, we ended up slightly in the red again!
And then very much in the red when the cambelt snapped! But it could have happened to any car, was just bad luck!
i remember said:
I like this, for some reason
Thats now 2 saxo's i like, Track_cit and this
Keep it quiet, people might hear you!Thats now 2 saxo's i like, Track_cit and this
On a serious note, I have a friend who's very much anti-Saxo. He won't take up the offer of having a go in this one, because he's worried that "if I like it, I'll have alot of people to apologise to!"
It's one of those cars people love to hate I think. You get pushed around and baited like theres no tomorrow in it, especially by other boy racer types and sales reps/management in big German stuff on every journey. It actually becomes a bit of a chore!
My ex GF had a VTR and I loved it, so bought myself a VTS. I had the VTS and a Pug 206 GTi and whilst both were nice enough warm hatches, I preferred the VTS for all but motorway driving. I got rid of it in the end as the local garage f
ked it and I needed to spend £1300 getting it right and after that it sort of soured it (Oil leak, so I took it in and they said Oh it's a tiny leak and causing no problems, we'll do it when you bring it for a service in a couple of weeks. Next week the cam belt went - the oil had actually been dripping on the belt and it slipped and destroyed the engine. fkers said it wasn't their fault)
ked it and I needed to spend £1300 getting it right and after that it sort of soured it (Oil leak, so I took it in and they said Oh it's a tiny leak and causing no problems, we'll do it when you bring it for a service in a couple of weeks. Next week the cam belt went - the oil had actually been dripping on the belt and it slipped and destroyed the engine. fkers said it wasn't their fault)
Really like this fella, your saxo story is spookily close to mine, fiancee bought her VTR in 04 aand met me in 05, i lowered it, fitted the earlier lights and Xsara wheels as they were only £50 as opposed to the £200 for the identical VTS equivalents we sold it in 07 but after seeing this i kinda wish we hadnt, it was a great little car that never set a foot wrong
TVR Moneypit said:
Kitchski said:
Think people might be misreading this....I use the term 'sleeper' very lightly! It's purely a sleeper to anyone who thinks it's a VTR. It's not a sleeper in the grand scheme of things really is it? It's more of a history thread on one of my cars, that's all. You know, petrolhead website and all that!
Sod the nay-sayers. I like it.Who's is the Chim?
Lovely,
Best left like that.
I had a 2001 VTR for my first motor, ended up modding the engine to 145hp + 50hp of NOS, Cage, seats, Suspension, big brakes. It was two tone silver/grey so i put some 15" OZ Superleggera's on it in grey. Best way to keep it looking unchav wise.
I think a nice little T25 Turbo or Rotrex Charger would work a treat on that
Best left like that.
I had a 2001 VTR for my first motor, ended up modding the engine to 145hp + 50hp of NOS, Cage, seats, Suspension, big brakes. It was two tone silver/grey so i put some 15" OZ Superleggera's on it in grey. Best way to keep it looking unchav wise.
I think a nice little T25 Turbo or Rotrex Charger would work a treat on that
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