Buying 997. Dealer vs Specialist vs ?
Discussion
Hello,
I have had a Boxster S for 5 years now and despite the engine blowing and costing me £7grand to replace, its been the best drive I have ever had.
The awful lack of any type of sympathy from Porsche (it was out of warranty), even after the rebuild at Hartech proved (via an amazing, insightful, detailed report provided on completion of the job) that is was Porsches fault - to cut a long story short they hadnt cleaned the engine properly before construction which lead to gradual starvation of oil.
Anyway, the point i am aiming to get accross is that I love porsches and am looking to buy a 997 but would like a comprehensive warranty for the life of ownership of the car.
I have been to the OPC and looked at a few cars. I have £35k to £40k to spend. And was very impressed by their 24 month waranty and promises of no-nonsense replacements, ceurtesy cars and pick-up/delivery etc. And also I appreciated the security of knowing that the OPC would not re-sell any car and have all the gear to hook up to the ECU to make sure the car has not been tracked or thrashed.
Also, the OPC will pretty much guarantee the car is mint by touching uo any paintwork before you get the car and all that malarky to ensure your used car is as close to a minter as possible.
So, i was ready to sign up and buy a 55 reg 997 3.8S. However, then i started noticing the specialists and whilst none of them provided a 24month warranty, thier prices were much more reasonable and obvioulsy you could get a newer/lower milage car for your money.
I have done a few searched on the forums here and seeen quite a few complaints about OPC service, which worries me as i was going to buy the car this weekend but am now having second thoughts.
Should i be looking at the specialsts more closely and buying 3rd party warranties or stick to the OPC for peice of mind?
Any advice apreciated (rather have advice from people who have actually had first hand experience rather than non-porsche owners with second or third hand stories please)
Thanks
I have had a Boxster S for 5 years now and despite the engine blowing and costing me £7grand to replace, its been the best drive I have ever had.
The awful lack of any type of sympathy from Porsche (it was out of warranty), even after the rebuild at Hartech proved (via an amazing, insightful, detailed report provided on completion of the job) that is was Porsches fault - to cut a long story short they hadnt cleaned the engine properly before construction which lead to gradual starvation of oil.
Anyway, the point i am aiming to get accross is that I love porsches and am looking to buy a 997 but would like a comprehensive warranty for the life of ownership of the car.
I have been to the OPC and looked at a few cars. I have £35k to £40k to spend. And was very impressed by their 24 month waranty and promises of no-nonsense replacements, ceurtesy cars and pick-up/delivery etc. And also I appreciated the security of knowing that the OPC would not re-sell any car and have all the gear to hook up to the ECU to make sure the car has not been tracked or thrashed.
Also, the OPC will pretty much guarantee the car is mint by touching uo any paintwork before you get the car and all that malarky to ensure your used car is as close to a minter as possible.
So, i was ready to sign up and buy a 55 reg 997 3.8S. However, then i started noticing the specialists and whilst none of them provided a 24month warranty, thier prices were much more reasonable and obvioulsy you could get a newer/lower milage car for your money.
I have done a few searched on the forums here and seeen quite a few complaints about OPC service, which worries me as i was going to buy the car this weekend but am now having second thoughts.
Should i be looking at the specialsts more closely and buying 3rd party warranties or stick to the OPC for peice of mind?
Any advice apreciated (rather have advice from people who have actually had first hand experience rather than non-porsche owners with second or third hand stories please)
Thanks
Sorry, I also wanted to ask how much I should be aiming to haggle off the price at the OPC or Specialist.
A friend just bought a new Cayman S and haggled £6k off the price. Thats was about 10%. Seeing as the car is used and about half its original vaule should i be aiming to knock about 5% off their asking price? Or what?
Last time i was so excited at buying the car I paid the full sticker price and forgot to haggle!
thanks
A friend just bought a new Cayman S and haggled £6k off the price. Thats was about 10%. Seeing as the car is used and about half its original vaule should i be aiming to knock about 5% off their asking price? Or what?
Last time i was so excited at buying the car I paid the full sticker price and forgot to haggle!
thanks
I would buy from an OPC with the 2 year warranty as it provides piece of mind plus you might find Porsche more willing to help when you actually spend money with them and their dealer network.
Forget buying a car on mileage/year buy on condition alone, lets face it they all look the same and a 2004 997 is the same car as a 2008 one. (gen2 excepted late 2008 to date)
You get a lot more off a new Porsche than a secondhand one, aim for the price you are willing to pay.
Good luck with the search.
Forget buying a car on mileage/year buy on condition alone, lets face it they all look the same and a 2004 997 is the same car as a 2008 one. (gen2 excepted late 2008 to date)
You get a lot more off a new Porsche than a secondhand one, aim for the price you are willing to pay.
Good luck with the search.
Edited by Wills2 on Thursday 16th June 22:53
To be honest, I think it's pretty simple.
If you want the kind of comprehensive warranty that would cover the catastrophic engine problems your Boxster had, then an OPC warranty is the only way to go. That doesn't actually mean you need to buy from an OPC of course - you could buy from a specialist dealer, wait 90 days, pay for the inspection + anything that needs fixing and then get your warranty.
There are disadvantages of course - questionably service from OPCs (although some people swear by them), higher service costs and no opportunity for anything remotely non-standard.
The other option is to buy from a specialist but put it on something like Hartech's plan. If I was local to them, and the warranty type back up was important to me I think that's the route I'd take.
If you want the kind of comprehensive warranty that would cover the catastrophic engine problems your Boxster had, then an OPC warranty is the only way to go. That doesn't actually mean you need to buy from an OPC of course - you could buy from a specialist dealer, wait 90 days, pay for the inspection + anything that needs fixing and then get your warranty.
There are disadvantages of course - questionably service from OPCs (although some people swear by them), higher service costs and no opportunity for anything remotely non-standard.
The other option is to buy from a specialist but put it on something like Hartech's plan. If I was local to them, and the warranty type back up was important to me I think that's the route I'd take.
There's two ways of looking at this.
One: Stick with an OPC approved car and get their warranty. Yes, you've not had a good experience up until now, but as you say, your car wasn't covered by them to start with. If possible, use a different OPC to the one you've already (not) dealt with. They have good cars at the money you're talking about, which should get you into anything from a 55 to 07 C2 or C2s.
Two: Keep up the research and use a Specialist Porsche dealer. There are loads out there, most genuine enthusiasts who love nothing more than to chat Porsche. i.e. they're not only out to take your money.
Names that spring to mind that a) stock quality cars and b) have a warranty worth talking about are: 911BOX, 911Virgin, Paragon and Autobahn. All these either provide 12 months in the sticker price, or at a slight additional cost. Also, Paragon will let you extend the cover after the first year, and some dealers like RSJ Sports Cars have a service/warranty scheme that you pay monthly for.
It is possible to get a quality car and the after sales backup as long as you do your homework, as I did. Good Luck!
One: Stick with an OPC approved car and get their warranty. Yes, you've not had a good experience up until now, but as you say, your car wasn't covered by them to start with. If possible, use a different OPC to the one you've already (not) dealt with. They have good cars at the money you're talking about, which should get you into anything from a 55 to 07 C2 or C2s.
Two: Keep up the research and use a Specialist Porsche dealer. There are loads out there, most genuine enthusiasts who love nothing more than to chat Porsche. i.e. they're not only out to take your money.
Names that spring to mind that a) stock quality cars and b) have a warranty worth talking about are: 911BOX, 911Virgin, Paragon and Autobahn. All these either provide 12 months in the sticker price, or at a slight additional cost. Also, Paragon will let you extend the cover after the first year, and some dealers like RSJ Sports Cars have a service/warranty scheme that you pay monthly for.
It is possible to get a quality car and the after sales backup as long as you do your homework, as I did. Good Luck!
Note about haggling: Check the PH classifieds in your target range. There will be plenty of cars at OPC's and specialists. It should be easy to find similar age / spec / mileage (not that we care about that too much!) cars to compare and work out what sort of deal you could try for. Some specialists won't move too much from the 'sticker' price, but then you'll be getting a cheaper relative car than the OPC in the first place.
Thanks for the advice. I agree about the Hartech option. I am not local to Hartech at all though thats the problem. They just gave the best deal on the engine build.
The only specialists I am local to are Autobahn and 911virgin. Both seem to have no cars in stock of the spec I am after at the moment anyway so perhaps OPC it must be.
The car I am most favourible to is on at £37500. Do you think trying for £35000 would be too ambitious?
Many Thanks Guys
The only specialists I am local to are Autobahn and 911virgin. Both seem to have no cars in stock of the spec I am after at the moment anyway so perhaps OPC it must be.
The car I am most favourible to is on at £37500. Do you think trying for £35000 would be too ambitious?
Many Thanks Guys
Yeah, considered the turbo but the mrs won't have it. We had a scooby that did 0-60 in 4 seconds (just been nicked - but thats another thread) and that was too much for her.
I know the c2s will be nearly just as fast (and probly quicker 0-100) but I'm not telling her that. It's the word 'turbo' that scares her.
Anyway, the car I was after has gone but they have a nice 4s in Sutton coldfield: Vehicle Ident Number:WP0ZZZ99Z6S734175
On for £40k. If I could get them down to 37500 I would have it.. There are a few similar private ones around 35k but it scares me that they could have been thrashed.
Hmm, what shall I do? It's starting tostress me to not have a definative course of action to follow...! I'm scared I may do an unwise impulse buy like I did spending 30k on a suburu..
I know the c2s will be nearly just as fast (and probly quicker 0-100) but I'm not telling her that. It's the word 'turbo' that scares her.
Anyway, the car I was after has gone but they have a nice 4s in Sutton coldfield: Vehicle Ident Number:WP0ZZZ99Z6S734175
On for £40k. If I could get them down to 37500 I would have it.. There are a few similar private ones around 35k but it scares me that they could have been thrashed.
Hmm, what shall I do? It's starting tostress me to not have a definative course of action to follow...! I'm scared I may do an unwise impulse buy like I did spending 30k on a suburu..
Edited by PorscheRider on Friday 17th June 08:05
OP - sorry to hear about your Boxster. It's good that it didn't put too much of a damper on your enthusiasm for the car, though!
I've got an unthrashed (Porsche wouldn't put the warranty on it if it were) one not too far from you with Porsche warranty through to Feb 2013.
Less than you're thinking of spending, though, so that may put it out of contention
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2861951.htm
I guess the downsides of getting a car privately (but with warranty) are:
- finance
- won't be prepped as well as from an OPC
- if it goes bang shortly afterwards you'd sort it with an OPC at their cost instead of giving it back to them and getting something else
I've got an unthrashed (Porsche wouldn't put the warranty on it if it were) one not too far from you with Porsche warranty through to Feb 2013.
Less than you're thinking of spending, though, so that may put it out of contention
http://pistonheads.com/sales/2861951.htm
I guess the downsides of getting a car privately (but with warranty) are:
- finance
- won't be prepped as well as from an OPC
- if it goes bang shortly afterwards you'd sort it with an OPC at their cost instead of giving it back to them and getting something else
all2ofme said:
I've got an unthrashed (Porsche wouldn't put the warranty on it if it were)
Really?I'm not suggestiong yours is - but Porsche couldn't know if it was thrashed. They may be able to check over-revs, but they wouldn't be able to tell whether the owner was letting it warm up for 20 mins each day before flooring it, or whether it was thrashed to the redline from stone cold on a regular basis.
The advantage of the OPC warranty is that if it has been thrashed to death and goes bang, they should pay up. But the idea that an OPC warranty is proof that it hasn't is stretching the truth slightly.
That's true - good points. Stretching the truth wasn't my intent. (Even slightly!)
I'd hope that posters here do the warming up, cooling down etc. things as a matter of course, but you're right, that's hardly guaranteed.
Knowing about over-revs is one good thing better than nothing, though, and having a warranty applied by an OPC after checking the car over would go a good way to making me more comfortable about a prospective purchase. You'd not be in a better position in terms of how the car's been treated if you were buying directly from an OPC, either. Especially with a plate starting with R
I'd hope that posters here do the warming up, cooling down etc. things as a matter of course, but you're right, that's hardly guaranteed.
Knowing about over-revs is one good thing better than nothing, though, and having a warranty applied by an OPC after checking the car over would go a good way to making me more comfortable about a prospective purchase. You'd not be in a better position in terms of how the car's been treated if you were buying directly from an OPC, either. Especially with a plate starting with R
PorscheRider - you can get finance elsewhere if you look. Often the deposits and balloons aren't quite as good (i.e. you'll have to put more down), but the APR is usually better. Have a look.
As to Hatfields Cobalt Blue car - I looked at it and briefly considered it (I've just bought a Cayman S from East London) - nice colour, decent spec without being OTT, but I was concerned that it wasn't prepped that well. I drove another 997 from there of that vintage and it felt a little tired to me, as did a Cayman I tried. Not sure if, or what, that's indicative of, but thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth.
As to Hatfields Cobalt Blue car - I looked at it and briefly considered it (I've just bought a Cayman S from East London) - nice colour, decent spec without being OTT, but I was concerned that it wasn't prepped that well. I drove another 997 from there of that vintage and it felt a little tired to me, as did a Cayman I tried. Not sure if, or what, that's indicative of, but thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth.
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