Project 993... ! ? !
Project 993... ! ? !
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Kananga

Original Poster:

1,171 posts

187 months

Friday 16th September 2011
quotequote all
Hi all,

About 6 years ago i bought a 993 C2S, one of the best cars I've ever owned. It was an Ocean Blue car with (rare) black leather, c.41k mls when i bought it and in good general condition. Over 9-months or so, i fixed up the various bits on the car that i wasn't happy with, eventually even having a full interior re-trim by Southbound which made the car feel brand new inside. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of selling the car and regretted it almost immediately - even tried to buy it back without any success.

Anyway, i kept my eye out for another good condition C2S but couldn't find anything for 9-12 months. Eventually, an interesting car came up for sale on pistonheads out in the west country:
- 1998 993 C4S
- 19k mls
- Arctic Silver / full black leather
- Extensive history file
- etc

The car was priced well below comparable low-mileage cars because it had been recorded as a Category-D insurance write-off (non-economic repair). Now, i'd NEVER considered buying a Cat-registered car and just dismissed the advert and continued my search (without much joy). Eventually, i called up the seller of the 993 and spoke to him about the car's history. He sent me a series of photographs showing the accident damage (pre-repair) and was able to put me in touch with the chap who owned the car when the accident took place and the body repair shop that carried out the work. To cut a long story short, the car had suffered panel damage to three of the body panels, and was written off on the basis of non-economic repair (essentially comparison of the salvage value vs a full OPC repair +911 rental to the owner for the 6 estimated weeks of the repair).

I did more research and discovered the 1998 car was one of the last 993's produced and was first purchased into a collection and was only driven a few hundred miles per year in its early life.

Still v sceptical (but intrigued), i went to have a look at the car - probably out of desperation at the time - but was surprised to find that it seemed to be in very good condition. The interior condition fully reflected the mileage, the leather on the dash/seats/etc all immaculate. Mechanically it seemed fantastic, no clicking on the check-straps, no signs of corrosion anywhere, including the front/rear screen areas. Had a test drive and it seemed to drive perfectly, no signs that it had been damaged/repaired. Spoke to a few close friends who thought i was crazy to consider buying a Cat-registered vehicle but i figured i would have an inspection carried out (just out of curiousity). Arranged with the seller to have the car dropped off with a chap called Crispin Manners (from the Oak Tree Garage) to be inspected. The report came back with some niggles but nothing hideous. The worst issue was that some of the paintwork wasn't perfect - it had likely been painted in a body shop that wasn't fully dust-free, and a UV lamp showed some minor specs in the paint on one of the front wings and rear arches. Crispin thought mechanically the car was immaculate and suggested i not be put off (for the right money of course).

Still the sceptic, i decided to have another inspection carried out. The owner agreed for me to have the car transported closer to home where I had my regular service agent give the car a full inspection. Again, the report (including road test) was v positive on the car's condition + soundness.

I bought and have now owned the car for just over 3-years, during which time it hasn't missed a beat. I haven't had any major issues with it at all, MOTs all passed with flying colours, services all carried out without any issues coming up. GT-One have given it a thorough inspection recently and agree that it is a lovely example.

Anyway, after that rambling intro... here's the thing. At the moment, I can't see myself ever wanting/needing to sell it. Sure, it isn't a C2S but i still think the car is great. Even though it doesn't feel fast anymore, there's just something about the 993 that is just special and makes me enjoy it. And IMHO no water-cooled car will ever match it for sheer kudos.

So... i'm thinking of embarking on a mission, to turn the car into a 'new' 993 as much as possible. What will this involve ? The following:
- Full strip down + engine-out + windows out respray (more below)
- When it's stripped down, the body will be fully checked against the pre-repair pics (in case any attention needed)
- Top-end Engine rebuild with any relevant components upgraded if needed
- Golden-rod + RS fork (already ordered from the US - thanks Jackal!)
- New clutch (not really needed but have felt a slight judder recently)
- New suspension arms (already had Bilstein HDs put on a couple of years ago)
- All new seals/gaskets/rubber trims/etc

Had this car not had the CatD status, i'd be repainting back to factory Artic Silver, no question. However, given the history, i'm actually thinking that this is a good excuse to change the colour, especially if i go for the engine rebuild. For the new colour, its a toss up between the Blues: Mexico, Riviera, Maritime or RS Blue (MUST be a porsche colour). As part of the strip-down i'd aim to try and have all weak points addressed (eg. inspection of rear chassis, etc) and would probably have a lot of bits powder coated (having been inspired by Jackal's 993!)

The car is with Pete/Craig at GT-One at the moment, and I'm getting a quote for the work mentioned above - essentially a combination of GT-One + Specialised, both of whom have great reputations, and importantly work together well. As i live in the south-east, i'll be able to pop in while all the work is being done (i would like to be as involved as possible and see the progress every few days, etc).

I KNOW that i may never recoup the full cost of the above in terms of resale, and obviously some will be put off by the idea of the colour change. However, i'm approaching this with the following thoughts:
- i bought the car at a reasonable discount vs a non-Cat example
- no plans to sell the car anytime soon
- i doubt i'll find a mint low-mileage example for a lot less than £40k+
- the process would identify any weak points in the original repair which I would address
- hopefully SOME of the cost will be valued by any future buyer... AND
- i'm hoping it will turn out to be a really special car when all done.

Anyway, i'm 70/30 in favour of going ahead (subject to not having cardiac arrest when i get the final estimate) and will record all of the work that is done, including the strip-down/etc, probably posting the progress up here...

Sorry for the long-winded post - views welcome!

(Also - thanks to all who responded on the previous thread about body shop recommendations!)


Edited by Kananga on Saturday 17th September 10:01

Emeye

9,781 posts

254 months

Friday 16th September 2011
quotequote all
I'd say go for it (as long as the quote doesn't kill you). Whatever makes you happy - I never understand people obsessed with keeping a car it's std colour if the respray is done to a high quality. I almost bought a 993 a few years ago - wish I had when I had the chance, kids has put pay to my 911 ownership plans for a while.

Kananga

Original Poster:

1,171 posts

187 months

Friday 16th September 2011
quotequote all
Thanks... am sort of viewing this is my own version of a Singer-911 (in a manner of speaking!)

Cedric's Dad

91 posts

204 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
Love your passion!

Riviera pleasesmile

jackal

11,251 posts

313 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
How about going the whole hog and getiing it dipped !

I would blast and lacquer/powder coat all the suspension, subframes and uprights etc.. buying new would cost £££££

I guess only you can decide whats the right thing to do. Just to offer an alternative viewpoint, if the car works as is and looks good then why not spend 10k on a nice elise s1 (or something equivalent) which cant lose a penny and will offer totally different driving experience albeit just as engaging. More recoverable capital and a wider range of motoring experiences at your fingertips.

TonyB66

243 posts

201 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
Cobalt Blue? - I'm slightly biased as my 996C2 is but its a great colour and had quite a few nice comments about it from Joe Public during my ownership.

Kananga

Original Poster:

1,171 posts

187 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
Cedric's Dad said:
Love your passion!

Riviera pleasesmile
Thanks! Riviera definitely in the running and is a front-runner as i think it was available when the 993 was being produced. I was just wondering if its a touch too light ? wanted a really strong primary colour (but don't think orange/viper suits the 993 as much as blue)...

jackal said:
How about going the whole hog and getiing it dipped !

I would blast and lacquer/powder coat all the suspension, subframes and uprights etc.. buying new would cost £££££

I guess only you can decide whats the right thing to do. Just to offer an alternative viewpoint, if the car works as is and looks good then why not spend 10k on a nice elise s1 (or something equivalent) which cant lose a penny and will offer totally different driving experience albeit just as engaging. More recoverable capital and a wider range of motoring experiences at your fingertips.
Fully agree with you re blast/powder-coating the lot. Was thinking about getting it dipped, but have read (and been advised by some people) that the 993's body is good enough not to warrant it. Will check what the incremental price difference would be.

You're absolutely right to suggest the alternative which is no-doubt a more sensible way to part with 10k. Thing is, i genuinely think the 993 is timeless. We're lucky to have a couple of other toys in the garage which are faster / more focussed (including an immaculate CSL up until recently which i really regret selling). Without doubt, there are a dozen cars that are faster/sharper to drive, but there's something about the 993 that makes it a treasure to own. If i'm honest, i can't put my finger on it, have thought about selling it a few times but couldn't bring myself to advertise it!

TonyB66 said:
Cobalt Blue? - I'm slightly biased as my 996C2 is but its a great colour and had quite a few nice comments about it from Joe Public during my ownership.
Thanks - i love Cobalt, great colour but was looking for something more striking... havent seen cobalt in the flesh for some time so maybe i should go check it out before finalising... thanks!

Nurburgsingh

5,561 posts

269 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
That Jackal has got a lot to answer for !!!! Lol


I'd also say go for it, if it's a keeper then ignore the nah Sayers and pooh poohers !


The dipping process is amazing, and it allows for a perfect internal paint job. I'm that the same carpet glue was used in the 993 as the 968 given the era and believe me dipping might just be the only answer!

For me it's riviera... But then I'm basing that on pics of an RS which looks amazing in riviera. never seen a wide body one in riviera....

Can anyone photoshop a pic of your current car into the colours you have shortlisted?

We fully expect a build thread though!

cragswinter

21,429 posts

227 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
I'm not that keen on riviera myself, though it does lend itself to the 993 shape more than others, maritime would be my choice.

However, how about building an homage to the final edition 911. Do a search (it will pop up on rennlist) for comedian jerry seinfelds "final edition" 993. It was the last ever off the line. Iirc:

C4s (definatly wide body)
Riviera blue
Hollow spoke alloys
Alloy painted to exterior colour
Hard backed sports seats to exterior colour
Twin grill rear deck lid
Badged as 911S

I think that was it? Stunning looking car as well smile

Andiroo

248 posts

280 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
And the nicest blue of all you missed...... RS Blue wink

Kananga

Original Poster:

1,171 posts

187 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all

Nurburgsingh said:
That Jackal has got a lot to answer for !!!! Lol

I'd also say go for it, if it's a keeper then ignore the nah Sayers and pooh poohers !

The dipping process is amazing, and it allows for a perfect internal paint job. I'm that the same carpet glue was used in the 993 as the 968 given the era and believe me dipping might just be the only answer!

For me it's riviera... But then I'm basing that on pics of an RS which looks amazing in riviera. never seen a wide body one in riviera....

Can anyone photoshop a pic of your current car into the colours you have shortlisted?

We fully expect a build thread though!
Build thread for sure, will probably put together a detailed book on the project and include the original damage pics for completeness. Definitely been inspired by Jackal's work, just wish I had the time/expertise to do some of it myself to save costs. For choice I'd love to see the different colours side-by-side in the flesh, so it would be easier to judge, but a photoshop would be really helpful if possible.


cragswinter said:
I'm not that keen on riviera myself, though it does lend itself to the 993 shape more than others, maritime would be my choice.

However, how about building an homage to the final edition 911. Do a search (it will pop up on rennlist) for comedian jerry seinfelds "final edition" 993. It was the last ever off the line.
Thanks! Just did - search but couldn't find it - will have a look on rennlist this afternoon. Love the idea of the hollow-spokes and twin grill of the c2s... Will definitely take under consideration.


Andiroo said:
And the nicest blue of all you missed...... RS Blue wink
Is that the colour from the audi rs2's of old ? Wonder how it compares to the other blues... ?

Shadow62

1,083 posts

241 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
My 993 is riviera and I looooove it.

To see what can be done along the line I think you are taking have a look at that black widebody 993 ninemeister did a few years back. There was a thread and YouTube clip knocking about

Kananga

Original Poster:

1,171 posts

187 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
Shadow62 said:
My 993 is riviera and I looooove it.

To see what can be done along the line I think you are taking have a look at that black widebody 993 ninemeister did a few years back. There was a thread and YouTube clip knocking about
Yup - riviera definitely strong contender for the project!! The YouTube video of the 9m car seems to have disappeared. I've seen it before and it looked stunning. I guess one alternative is to just hand the car to 9m for the entire project but I sort of like the idea of having it close by so I can personally go see the progress regularly.

Andiroo

248 posts

280 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
it is the RS2 colour mate, plus a '3GT2 colour if I remember correctly wink





Ah yes cloud9

carcrazypop

579 posts

195 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
Hi,
As already said, deffo go for it ! especially if it's a keeper.

Also, a big yes to Riviera as I'm a big fan of bright, 'different' colours for cars if being used as a weekend toy.

I've had several 993's over the years in what I'd describe as the conservative colours, silvers/blues etc, and these are fine if you're using the car on a more regular basis.

When I was looking for my current 993, I knew it was going to be a bit of a toy, so I wanted one completely different, and ended up buying the mint green one from Virgin earlier this year; as well as the colour, it's also got black wheels, black carrera decals, 100cell cats, small RS bodykit & M033 suspension.

I had a 996t before, and was a bit nervous about the change, but in all honesty, I don't regret the change one bit, and am absolutely loving the 993; it brings a smile to my face every time I open the garage door.

I'm gradually improving the car as funds permit, and recently has a new windscreen so had all the surround & scuttle treated at the same time as well as a Swissvax treatment.

I spoke to the guy at Shorade, the Porsche approved bodyshop who'd done the work for me, about a possible back to bare metal full respray in the future, and he muttered numbers at me like £7-8k, which made me choke slightly.

Needless to say, that particular project is well into the future !!

Anyway, good luck with the project, and I'm sure you'll love it as much as I do mine. smile


Kananga

Original Poster:

1,171 posts

187 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
Andiroo- thanks - like the colour - added to the short-list.

carcrazypop said:
Hi,
As already said, deffo go for it ! especially if it's a keeper.

Also, a big yes to Riviera as I'm a big fan of bright, 'different' colours for cars if being used as a weekend toy.

I've had several 993's over the years in what I'd describe as the conservative colours, silvers/blues etc, and these are fine if you're using the car on a more regular basis.

When I was looking for my current 993, I knew it was going to be a bit of a toy, so I wanted one completely different, and ended up buying the mint green one from Virgin earlier this year; as well as the colour, it's also got black wheels, black carrera decals, 100cell cats, small RS bodykit & M033 suspension.

I had a 996t before, and was a bit nervous about the change, but in all honesty, I don't regret the change one bit, and am absolutely loving the 993; it brings a smile to my face every time I open the garage door.

I'm gradually improving the car as funds permit, and recently has a new windscreen so had all the surround & scuttle treated at the same time as well as a Swissvax treatment.

I spoke to the guy at Shorade, the Porsche approved bodyshop who'd done the work for me, about a possible back to bare metal full respray in the future, and he muttered numbers at me like £7-8k, which made me choke slightly.

Needless to say, that particular project is well into the future !!

Anyway, good luck with the project, and I'm sure you'll love it as much as I do mine. smile
Thanks for the views! Fully agreed it needs to be a striking colour - RS bodykit could be an interesting idea if it fits the C4S... Yours looks great, I think the side graphics look good on the bright colours... Another friend of mine had suggested grand-prix white but it almost feels too 'safe' in today's world where everything seems to be white...

Bare metal for 7k sounds very good vs the estimate I had for a (non bare metal) colour change. Will need to bottom out the figures with Specialised. Was yours mint green from factory ? Or did it have a colour change ?

Mine current has RSR mufflers but I'm wondering about ordering the Fister Stage 3's and some 100 cell cats like yours.

I suspect a full interior strip + dip may be overkill but need to think about it some more!

Emeye

9,781 posts

254 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
carcrazypop said:
That's the colour I'd want my 911 in. What colour is that? smile

carcrazypop

579 posts

195 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
Kananga said:
Thanks for the views! Fully agreed it needs to be a striking colour - RS bodykit could be an interesting idea if it fits the C4S... Yours looks great, I think the side graphics look good on the bright colours... Another friend of mine had suggested grand-prix white but it almost feels too 'safe' in today's world where everything seems to be white...

Bare metal for 7k sounds very good vs the estimate I had for a (non bare metal) colour change. Will need to bottom out the figures with Specialised. Was yours mint green from factory ? Or did it have a colour change ?

Mine current has RSR mufflers but I'm wondering about ordering the Fister Stage 3's and some 100 cell cats like yours.

I suspect a full interior strip + dip may be overkill but need to think about it some more!
Mine was an original special factory order in that colour, 1 of 4 RHD mint green 993's, I've even got the original purchase order form requesting the colour.

One word of warning, especially if you're not thick skinned, if you go for any 'marmite' colour, there will be those who love it, and then those that hate it, so don't expect everyone to love your car as you do.

The main thing is to go for something you love, and don't get hung up too much on other peoples preferences, life's too short !

Good Luck.

carcrazypop

579 posts

195 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
Emeye said:
That's the colour I'd want my 911 in. What colour is that? smile
Mint Green, colour code 22R.

cragswinter

21,429 posts

227 months

Saturday 17th September 2011
quotequote all
ok last air cooled ever built was a black one for jerry but his riviera is shown with some of his other collection here:




& his turbo S: