997 turbo over rev ranges

[NickBB]

hi, the cars is 3 1/2 yrs old, manual, and has had 65 range 3, and 4 range 4. (none in ranges 5 or 6 ).

Would anyone have a view as to whether that all sounds totally normal?

thanks in advance

Nick

[911Thrasher]

How are Rev3,4,5 and 6 defined?

[NickBB]

The printout the OPC gave me shows "Number of ignitions, range 1"

etc etc. With no actual definition....

[Lordglenmorangie]

The chap to ask is Henry at Virgin cars.

[NickBB]

thx vm

[Gibbo205]

Hi there

That is perfectly normal.

4 in range 4 is not possible, needs to be above 10.

Range 1 is approaching limiter
Range 2 is hitting/bouncing of limiter
Range 3 is down changing say from 3rd to 2nd a little to early
Range 4 is a bad mis-shift
Range 5 is a very big mis-shift
Range 6 is engine BOOM BANG.

An OPC won't have issue with Range 1-3.
They will seek permission before placing warranty on a car with 10 or more ignitions in range 4 or above and dependend when they happened.

[Lordglenmorangie]

NickBB said:

thx vm

Hi Nick, I had a extremely bad experience with my OPC and Porsche regarding last year regarding this over rev nonsense , Henry was able to sooth my furrowed brow, thus preventing me from jumping of a cliff

[NickBB]

Gibbo205 said:

Hi there

That is perfectly normal.

4 in range 4 is not possible, needs to be above 10.

Range 1 is approaching limiter
Range 2 is hitting/bouncing of limiter
Range 3 is down changing say from 3rd to 2nd a little to early
Range 4 is a bad mis-shift
Range 5 is a very big mis-shift
Range 6 is engine BOOM BANG.

An OPC won't have issue with Range 1-3.
They will seek permission before placing warranty on a car with 10 or more ignitions in range 4 or above and dependend when they happened.

THats great, thanks. The story is that i've had in mind for a while to buy a 997tt when they creep under 50k.
....I made the fatal error of going to look at one last week... 2008 with carbon brakes... in white.. and ended up buying it (incidentally, they offered me a ridiculous price for my 997s. I told him i wanted 4k more.. and they hardly put up a fight. Suggests they couldnt wait to shift the tt i guess). Anyway, just before i phoned thru the deposit, i wanted to check the over-runs. He sent a print-out of the diagnostics, and said this "Hi Nick, Please find attached rev range report for the Turbo.
Basically there are 6 ranges, this car has been in ranges 1-4 (4 only 4 times) basically 1-4 is not a problem and quite normal as this just means its hit the red line/rev limiter, ranges 5-6 is more serious and normally would result in us not being able to apply for a warranty."

He also told me they do a compression test etc and send off to porsche before they get the go-ahead to retail/warranty it.

I thought long and hard about a gtr, but aside from servicing/reliability etc, i find that nothing comapares to the ergonomics and driving feel of the 911. I also really miss the 996tt i had...

Icidentally, i drove a c63 at Merc world last week... great sound, nice interior, but felt quite detached from a driving point of view. MB world well worth a visit by the way, and Brooklands museum.

cheers
Nick

[nxi20]

This is what Durametric have as the actual rev triggers (I suspect that the values are slightly different depending on what the model is (GT3, GT2, Turbo or Carrera), but you get the idea):

Durametric is capable of displaying the engine over-rev information. On the 987 and 997, this is broken into six catagories: ranges 1 - 6.

Range 1 - 7200-7500 (7300 - 7500 for 911)
Range 2 - 7500-7700
Range 3 - 7700-7900
Range 4 - 7900-8400
Range 5 - 8400-9500
Range 6 - 9500 and up. This occurs when the engine is mechanically overreved by shifting into a lower gear and mechanically exceeding the rev-limiter.

The number shown is each spark ignition over the rev-limiter. The hours displayed next to each range value is the number of operating hours when the last ignition occured.

[NickBB]

THanks v much.

[NickBB]

Fwiw, when i went to try the tt, there was a Cayman R there, so i gave that a go (never having driven one before, and keeping an open mind given that it was in a similar price range to the tt i was looking at).

Have to say i was rather underwhelmed. Tho coming out of a 997s the cayman was not going to feel straight-line fast. It clearly handled really well tho, and i can imagine a great car for the track. Ride was too harsh for me (again not an issue on track). Also thought the exhaust noise was very tame. £60+ k tho.... that's a not far from nearly-new 997 money...

[Gibbo205]

NickBB said:

THats great, thanks. The story is that i've had in mind for a while to buy a 997tt when they creep under 50k.
....I made the fatal error of going to look at one last week... 2008 with carbon brakes... in white.. and ended up buying it (incidentally, they offered me a ridiculous price for my 997s. I told him i wanted 4k more.. and they hardly put up a fight. Suggests they couldnt wait to shift the tt i guess). Anyway, just before i phoned thru the deposit, i wanted to check the over-runs. He sent a print-out of the diagnostics, and said this "Hi Nick, Please find attached rev range report for the Turbo.
Basically there are 6 ranges, this car has been in ranges 1-4 (4 only 4 times) basically 1-4 is not a problem and quite normal as this just means its hit the red line/rev limiter, ranges 5-6 is more serious and normally would result in us not being able to apply for a warranty."

He also told me they do a compression test etc and send off to porsche before they get the go-ahead to retail/warranty it.

I thought long and hard about a gtr, but aside from servicing/reliability etc, i find that nothing comapares to the ergonomics and driving feel of the 911. I also really miss the 996tt i had...

Icidentally, i drove a c63 at Merc world last week... great sound, nice interior, but felt quite detached from a driving point of view. MB world well worth a visit by the way, and Brooklands museum.

cheers
Nick

Only ranges 1-2 are hitting the limiter and its perfectly normal for there to be thousands of ignitions in this area.
Some people say range 3 is possible from hitting the limiter hard, but could just be selecting a lower gear to early.

Range 4 upwards are bad mis-shifts. The car your looking at only has range 1-3 so your OK, 4 ignitions in range 4 will be anomoly as they have be 10 or higher so an OPC would not have issue placing a warranty on the car as long as the rest of the 111 point check passes.

[NickBB]

THank you. Interestingly it was specced with short-shift.

I found it really stiff, and ive asked them to replace it with the normal linkage. (i'll keep the original in case i want to change back).

It may just be me, but apart from the stiffness of it, i found it made me more likely to miss a gear.

Having said that a mate has a 996tt and put a short shirt on it and he loves it.

[kegscy]

Hi

I've been looking at a possible 997 purchase with the following over-rev report: (current hours 1030)

Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 1 8282
Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 2 677
Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 3 21
Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 4 7
Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 5 2
Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 6 1
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 1 1025
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 2 1025
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 3 984
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 4 984
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 5 984
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 6 892


I'm concerned about the range 6 one, 138 hours ago, - but is this just a glitch as its a one off, as has been mentioned here before?
What about the range 5 one?

Any thoughts from the collective PH experts gratefully received !

Kegscy

[mm450exc]

Nobody can tell you if the engine will be ok. But probably it will.

I had the following when I got my car with 6k on the clock. Range 4/5/6 is now about 350hrs ago and going strong! Not burning any oil unless I get the headers glowing on the track.

Range 4: 3
Range 5: 2
Range 6: 1

[bing]

Mate I'm in a similar situation 23 odd in Rev Range 4 and 0 in 5 & 6, waiting to see if OPC warrenty it. See here:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[mm450exc]

They will warranty it - did on mine.

[MadMark981]

kegscy said:

Hi

I've been looking at a possible 997 purchase with the following over-rev report: (current hours 1030)

Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 1 8282
Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 2 677
Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 3 21
Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 4 7
Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 5 2
Number of Ignitions at speed > Maximum speed, range 6 1
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 1 1025
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 2 1025
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 3 984
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 4 984
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 5 984
Operating Hours counter reading at overspeed, range 6 892

I'm concerned about the range 6 one, 138 hours ago, - but is this just a glitch as its a one off, as has been mentioned here before?
What about the range 5 one?

Any thoughts from the collective PH experts gratefully received !

Kegscy

Looks like the previous owner gave it a proper ragging before he sold / part ex'd it (5 hours of running time ago) and may well have down changed a little too early 46 hrs ago .... RR5 & RR6 are almost certainly spurious readings. An OPC might want a "boroscope inspection" as 7 ignitions in RR4 is getting close to their limit of 10!

[kegscy]

Thanks all for your input, - meant to say its 997 turbo if that makes any difference....

Have checked your thread Bing - Thanks - but you didn't have any RR5 or 6's......

Is there any way I can check whether these are false/spurious?

Cheers

Edited by kegscy on Tuesday 2nd July 14:57

[Rockster]

kegscy said:

Thanks all for your input, - meant to say its 997 turbo if that makes any difference....

Have checked your thread Bing - Thanks - but you didn't have any RR5 or 6's......

Is there any way I can check whether these are false/spurious?

Cheers

Edited by kegscy on Tuesday 2nd July 14:57

No way I know of to know but I suspect they are. In some cases the numbers just do not "look" right. Not scientific I admit.

Anyhow, briefly I believe that non-zero over rev numbers are stored in the higher rev ranges when the Porsche diagnostics computer is used to read the rev numbers out. This is to put something there that is given the inside knowledge of what numbers are possible a way to know the range counters have been tampered with. Note too the diagnostics computer bundles this info up and sends it to the factory (is my info).

If the ranges were all zero who's to say the zeros were real or from tampering?

By placing non-zero yet (based on some unpublished algorithm) impossible numbers in the over rev counters Porsche has a way to know the numbers are ok or not ok.

All that talk about sending the numbers to Porsche for approval prior to offering a warranty just gives someone at Porsche time to run the numbers through some application which spits either a pass or fail (aka tamper) based on the numbers and their plausibility.

'course, there could be more to it than this. Someone at Porsche knowing what the true possible numbers can be I guess could look at the numbers and decide the over revs while real are below some hard threshold and thus the engine is safe (safe enough at any rate) to offer a warranty while another identical engine with higher (and real) numbers Porsche could decide the numbers are too high and elect to refuse to offer a warranty on the car and its engine.