Fitting brake pads without he shims.....?

[911Fiddler]

Anybody have experience of fitting 996 brake pads without the shims/weights, ie the stick on part? Presumably squealing is likely to happen?

[sportsandclassic]

Hi,

Why would you not want the damping shims? I know they are not used in track use. Have had some cars that have not had them installed and been fine and others that squeel under light braking.

Mike

[s_mcneil]

Don't the shims also work with the piston, ie the metal parts sits in the caliper piston hole? You don't have to renew the shim on every pad change but my understanding is you do need the shim itself. Could be wrong though...

[thegoose]

s_mcneil said:

You don't have to renew the shim on every pad change but my understanding is you do need the shim itself. Could be wrong though...

The shim is self-adhesive so how do you re-use them after they've already thousands of miles under harsh conditions?

[Ray Singh]

fit them if possible - the squeeking under braking will drive you insane other wise.....

[BliarOut]

thegoose said:

s_mcneil said:

You don't have to renew the shim on every pad change but my understanding is you do need the shim itself. Could be wrong though...

The shim is self-adhesive so how do you re-use them after they've already thousands of miles under harsh conditions?

Peel 'em off and stick 'em on the new pads. Easy enough when you change the pads on a Sunday and realise you've forgotten to buy new ones half way through

[s_mcneil]

thegoose said:

The shim is self-adhesive so how do you re-use them after they've already thousands of miles under harsh conditions?

You don't have to restick to reuse, they just slot in, the stickiness goes quite quickly anyway.

[chris7676]

I didn't bother as my last ones were stuck to the pads so had problems changing the pads. Hardly any squeeling.

[khushy]

I have been told that Sypders dont use the shims!

[stegefal]

They're inexpensive (£12 a caliper?)and my brakes are quiet, so I'm happy with them.

What I hated when I first did my brakes on this particualr car was that someone had blatantly not changed the caliper pin kit and guide plates ever, which then took some serious hammering to get off! They'd could've just cleaned them and given them a rub down with a bit of wet 'n dry and a bit of copper grease.... Lazy.

[911Fiddler]

Cheers for comments.
Mike; reason why I am thinking of it is that I have noticed that after fresh fitment of pads etc with the associated clean down, the car handling improves greatly -smoother running more precise steering etc, significantly nicer & more Porsche magic. The only relevant influence to this effect I believe is the slight pad-dragging that takes place once the brakes are used, slightly rusted, full of crud etc. The cause here is lack is pad retraction or even the retention of a slight amount of 'on' pressure onto the disk. I have proved this effect to myself a number of times by carrying out a full pad/caliper clean out and each time being pleased by the lovely effect. The current annoyance really is that the effect doesnt last long enough and so I am considering operating without the shims (the boss/spring item going inside the piston is the bit I was interested in eliniating) to see if I get a better assembly. The boss/spring assemblies have to be perfectly concentric with the pistons to assure free-est pad movement, and thats a tall order I think. If I am lucky I will get better pad retraction/release.

[Slippydiff]

911Fiddler said:

Cheers for comments.
Mike; reason why I am thinking of it is that I have noticed that after fresh fitment of pads etc with the associated clean down, the car handling improves greatly -smoother running more precise steering etc, significantly nicer & more Porsche magic. The only relevant influence to this effect I believe is the slight pad-dragging that takes place once the brakes are used, slightly rusted, full of crud etc. The cause here is lack is pad retraction or even the retention of a slight amount of 'on' pressure onto the disk. I have proved this effect to myself a number of times by carrying out a full pad/caliper clean out and each time being pleased by the lovely effect. The current annoyance really is that the effect doesnt last long enough and so I am considering operating without the shims (the boss/spring item going inside the piston is the bit I was interested in eliniating) to see if I get a better assembly. The boss/spring assemblies have to be perfectly concentric with the pistons to assure free-est pad movement, and thats a tall order I think. If I am lucky I will get better pad retraction/release.

You've most likely checked, but if the work you've carried out makes that much difference to the car, are you sure one or more of the pistons isn't sticking ?

[996TT_STEVO]

Shims stop them from squealing and more importantly the pad clanking of the disc... the reason I don't run them (track car) is they would fry and more than likely catch fire.

[PHOENIXUK]

996TT_STEVO said:

Shims stop them from squealing and more importantly the pad clanking of the disc... the reason I don't run them (track car) is they would fry and more than likely catch fire.

What yer big man said..

[911Fiddler]

Pad clanking: yip thats going to happen I guess without the boss/spring parts of the shims -nice one thanks.
Slippydiff -calipers are much newer than the car so should have fully free pistons, but will check each one. I think the oldest caliper I have is 2006, the others are newer (renovation last year)

[StuB]

My DS2500 pads with no shims were driving me nuts with the clanking, no squealing. Bedded in just fine on a TD though and no longer clanking either.