Safety: 986 v 987
Discussion
Hi
Short question: as far as I can tell Porsches aren't NCAP rated. However, does anyone happen to know:
(a) whether the 987 is a significantly "safer" car than the 986 in terms of a crash/roll?; and/or
(b) whether there is any objective and reliable info out there as to where say a facelifted 986 would rank safety-wise against say your average very safe family/commuter box like a Focus (either first gen focus or latest gen)?
It's just that I prefer the looks of the 987 and I've been reading of £10k early 987s come December / Jan. This would really be the upper limit of my budget, but if the 987 was also significantly safer it would be another reason to get it, as my girlfriend will also be in it / driving it.
Background:
Having just passed my test at the age of 26, I had a previous thread in the general discussion forum on which car to buy or whether to buy one at all, and in the end was recommended a hire car company (Enterprise) that would actually let me rent cars even though I have held my licence for less than 12 months (which seems to be a requirement of most). So I kind of came to the decision that I would save myself the money and the hassle and just rent one if I ever fancied a day / weekend trip somewhere. However, I'm now thinking that if I don't start building my no claims then insurance is forever going to cost me a fortune, and especially something like a 911, where I was recently quoted £1800 plus COMPULSORY excess of £3000!
Anyway, long story short and through a combination of man maths and self-motivation / delusion, combined with the fact that insurance on a 1.0l Fiat Panda is about £1200, and insurance on a Boxter is about £1600 (albeit with a large excess), I'm now considering taking the plunge and (a) buying my first car; and (b) making it one I will enjoy, given I do not actually need one.
I am a long time lurker of the Porsche forum here, having wanted a Fezza 'when I grow up' as a kid, but now wanting a Porsche as an adult.
Short question: as far as I can tell Porsches aren't NCAP rated. However, does anyone happen to know:
(a) whether the 987 is a significantly "safer" car than the 986 in terms of a crash/roll?; and/or
(b) whether there is any objective and reliable info out there as to where say a facelifted 986 would rank safety-wise against say your average very safe family/commuter box like a Focus (either first gen focus or latest gen)?
It's just that I prefer the looks of the 987 and I've been reading of £10k early 987s come December / Jan. This would really be the upper limit of my budget, but if the 987 was also significantly safer it would be another reason to get it, as my girlfriend will also be in it / driving it.
Background:
Having just passed my test at the age of 26, I had a previous thread in the general discussion forum on which car to buy or whether to buy one at all, and in the end was recommended a hire car company (Enterprise) that would actually let me rent cars even though I have held my licence for less than 12 months (which seems to be a requirement of most). So I kind of came to the decision that I would save myself the money and the hassle and just rent one if I ever fancied a day / weekend trip somewhere. However, I'm now thinking that if I don't start building my no claims then insurance is forever going to cost me a fortune, and especially something like a 911, where I was recently quoted £1800 plus COMPULSORY excess of £3000!
Anyway, long story short and through a combination of man maths and self-motivation / delusion, combined with the fact that insurance on a 1.0l Fiat Panda is about £1200, and insurance on a Boxter is about £1600 (albeit with a large excess), I'm now considering taking the plunge and (a) buying my first car; and (b) making it one I will enjoy, given I do not actually need one.
I am a long time lurker of the Porsche forum here, having wanted a Fezza 'when I grow up' as a kid, but now wanting a Porsche as an adult.
Edited by Chunk49 on Wednesday 26th October 16:47
Edited by Chunk49 on Wednesday 26th October 16:48
Edited by Chunk49 on Wednesday 26th October 16:49
Flat6time said:
Well seing as the excess is so much higher, I recommend you dont crash it, that way it won't matter what the differences in safety are.
Thanks for that - can't say I was planning on crashing it to be honest. Any input on the question about safety of 986 v 987 (other than not crashing it)?
gary71 said:
The active safety features are more important, such as ESP and fitting decent tyres.
If you have a choice between a boxster and a focus it shouldn't be too hard to make the decision!
If I do decide to take the plunge and buy a car it won't be a Focus, it was just an example. It's more a choice between say a £7,000 facelift 986 and say a £10,000 early 987 (if prices do end up there come December/Jan), bearing in mind that I would be happier paying for the cheaper car, but not if the 987 is significantly safer / the 986 is significantly less safe, whichever way you want to look at it.If you have a choice between a boxster and a focus it shouldn't be too hard to make the decision!
Chunk49 said:
Hi
Short question: as far as I can tell Porsches aren't NCAP rated. However, does anyone happen to know:
(a) whether the 987 is a significantly "safer" car than the 986 in terms of a crash/roll?; and/or
(b) whether there is any objective and reliable info out there as to where say a facelifted 986 would rank safety-wise against say your average very safe family/commuter box like a Focus (either first gen focus or latest gen)?
It's just that I prefer the looks of the 987 and I've been reading of £10k early 987s come December / Jan. This would really be the upper limit of my budget, but if the 987 was also significantly safer it would be another reason to get it, as my girlfriend will also be in it / driving it.
Background:
Having just passed my test at the age of 26, I had a previous thread in the general discussion forum on which car to buy or whether to buy one at all, and in the end was recommended a hire car company (Enterprise) that would actually let me rent cars even though I have held my licence for less than 12 months (which seems to be a requirement of most). So I kind of came to the decision that I would save myself the money and the hassle and just rent one if I ever fancied a day / weekend trip somewhere. However, I'm now thinking that if I don't start building my no claims then insurance is forever going to cost me a fortune, and especially something like a 911, where I was recently quoted £1800 plus COMPULSORY excess of £3000!
Anyway, long story short and through a combination of man maths and self-motivation / delusion, combined with the fact that insurance on a 1.0l Fiat Panda is about £1200, and insurance on a Boxter is about £1600 (albeit with a large excess), I'm now considering taking the plunge and (a) buying my first car; and (b) making it one I will enjoy, given I do not actually need one.
I am a long time lurker of the Porsche forum here, having wanted a Fezza 'when I grow up' as a kid, but now wanting a Porsche as an adult.
My WAG is they're about the same. They both have the same basic structure, weight, safety protection, etc.Short question: as far as I can tell Porsches aren't NCAP rated. However, does anyone happen to know:
(a) whether the 987 is a significantly "safer" car than the 986 in terms of a crash/roll?; and/or
(b) whether there is any objective and reliable info out there as to where say a facelifted 986 would rank safety-wise against say your average very safe family/commuter box like a Focus (either first gen focus or latest gen)?
It's just that I prefer the looks of the 987 and I've been reading of £10k early 987s come December / Jan. This would really be the upper limit of my budget, but if the 987 was also significantly safer it would be another reason to get it, as my girlfriend will also be in it / driving it.
Background:
Having just passed my test at the age of 26, I had a previous thread in the general discussion forum on which car to buy or whether to buy one at all, and in the end was recommended a hire car company (Enterprise) that would actually let me rent cars even though I have held my licence for less than 12 months (which seems to be a requirement of most). So I kind of came to the decision that I would save myself the money and the hassle and just rent one if I ever fancied a day / weekend trip somewhere. However, I'm now thinking that if I don't start building my no claims then insurance is forever going to cost me a fortune, and especially something like a 911, where I was recently quoted £1800 plus COMPULSORY excess of £3000!
Anyway, long story short and through a combination of man maths and self-motivation / delusion, combined with the fact that insurance on a 1.0l Fiat Panda is about £1200, and insurance on a Boxter is about £1600 (albeit with a large excess), I'm now considering taking the plunge and (a) buying my first car; and (b) making it one I will enjoy, given I do not actually need one.
I am a long time lurker of the Porsche forum here, having wanted a Fezza 'when I grow up' as a kid, but now wanting a Porsche as an adult.
Edited by Chunk49 on Wednesday 26th October 16:47
Edited by Chunk49 on Wednesday 26th October 16:48
Edited by Chunk49 on Wednesday 26th October 16:49
If you're thinking a Cayman vs a Boxster generally hardtops are safer in rollovers than softtops/roadsters because the hard top can prevent intrusion into the cabin from objects the car encounters when it rolls over.
The federal government (USA government) crash tests cars sold in the USA and has rankings for them.
Look here:
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/
I did though and didn't see any Porsches listed.
I was in my 08 Cayman S with a passenger when the car was nearly broadsided by an '89 Volvo traveling around 30mph. The Volvo impacted the Cayman S right at the left front wheel well and the impact drove the car sideways and up against a curb.
Oh, I was nearly stopped in the Cayman.
Both air bags went off and neither myself or my passenger were injured. The other driver also escaped injury from the accident impact.
Anyhow, the 08 Cayman S was totaled. Had I been able to find a similar Cayman S for the price (I bought the car marked down from $62.6K to $50.6K) I would have bought it in an instant. But all the reasonably priced Cayman S's gone by the time the other driver's insurance company came across with the money.
I did manage a consolation prize, of sorts... I found a nice low mile 03 Turbo and bought it.
Sincerely,
Rockster.
The best safety feature on the 986 is PSM: Porsche Stability Management. Optional on the 986, standard on the 987, I believe.
I have seen pictures on the net of Boxsters that have been crashed / rolled and many have come out well. Ideally you don't want to be inverted in one but the seat belt should pin you into your seat and then the rollover hoops and windscreen frame should protect you unless you are very tall.
Even the 986 had 4 airbags so I can't see that the 987 is intrinsically any safer.
Obvious really, but always buy good tyres and change them at 3-4mm.
Again obvious but a bit of expert tuition / on track experience can also be a fun way of improving your skilss and therefore prospects of dealing with avoidable dramas.
I have seen pictures on the net of Boxsters that have been crashed / rolled and many have come out well. Ideally you don't want to be inverted in one but the seat belt should pin you into your seat and then the rollover hoops and windscreen frame should protect you unless you are very tall.
Even the 986 had 4 airbags so I can't see that the 987 is intrinsically any safer.
Obvious really, but always buy good tyres and change them at 3-4mm.
Again obvious but a bit of expert tuition / on track experience can also be a fun way of improving your skilss and therefore prospects of dealing with avoidable dramas.
Chunk49 said:
Thanks dude. It does seem strange that there don't appear to be any objective validated safety ratings for them, especially in this age of 'regulation'.
If it's a German product they generaly have some of the most stringent regs anywhere in the world. Also as they export to so many countries it would have to satisfy many other regs. Having seen a number of Porsches come to grief at high speed on track days you can rest assured that whichever Porsche you invest in it will provide you and your passenger with a very high degree of protection. MogulBoy said:
The best safety feature on the 986 is PSM: Porsche Stability Management. Optional on the 986, standard on the 987, I believe.
Thanks for the tip - I'll make sure to look out for this if looking at 986s. Is it essentially a very good traction control?
I have seen pictures on the net of Boxsters that have been crashed / rolled and many have come out well. Ideally you don't want to be inverted in one but the seat belt should pin you into your seat and then the rollover hoops and windscreen frame should protect you unless you are very tall.
Am not particularly tall (under 6ft) so hopefully would be OK in the unlikely event of a roll.
Even the 986 had 4 airbags so I can't see that the 987 is intrinsically any safer.
I have been reading about the 987 introducing "head airbags" or something - anyone know anything about this?
Obvious really, but always buy good tyres and change them at 3-4mm.
Again obvious but a bit of expert tuition / on track experience can also be a fun way of improving your skilss and therefore prospects of dealing with avoidable dramas.
Thanks for the tips - def considering some expert tuition should I take the plunge!
Think I messed up the quote thing! Thanks for the tip - I'll make sure to look out for this if looking at 986s. Is it essentially a very good traction control?
I have seen pictures on the net of Boxsters that have been crashed / rolled and many have come out well. Ideally you don't want to be inverted in one but the seat belt should pin you into your seat and then the rollover hoops and windscreen frame should protect you unless you are very tall.
Am not particularly tall (under 6ft) so hopefully would be OK in the unlikely event of a roll.
Even the 986 had 4 airbags so I can't see that the 987 is intrinsically any safer.
I have been reading about the 987 introducing "head airbags" or something - anyone know anything about this?
Obvious really, but always buy good tyres and change them at 3-4mm.
Again obvious but a bit of expert tuition / on track experience can also be a fun way of improving your skilss and therefore prospects of dealing with avoidable dramas.
Thanks for the tips - def considering some expert tuition should I take the plunge!
Edited by Chunk49 on Thursday 27th October 16:27
Edited by Chunk49 on Thursday 27th October 16:28
Chunk49 said:
Even the 986 had 4 airbags so I can't see that the 987 is intrinsically any safer.
I have been reading about the 987 introducing "head airbags" or something - anyone know anything about this?
The 987 definitely has side airbags that offer head protection (they deploy up from the door), but I can't find anything that definitively describes the 986 other than 'side airbags', which may imply thorax only.I have been reading about the 987 introducing "head airbags" or something - anyone know anything about this?
Your Porsche dealer would be able to confirm.
PSM is Porsche's name for what most manufacturers call ESP - Electronic Stability Programme. This will attempt to stop the car spinning (if it thinks that is imminent otherwise) by using any combination of the brakes on each corner, plus AFAIK adding power to any available driven wheels.
It is mandatory on new models introduced from 2012 and from around 2015 for every new car.
Having crashed a few Porsches myself (race ones, but having used the basic structure of the car - e.g. front end impact) of up to 30+ years old and knowing people who've had bumps on the road, everyone is always very impressed in how well they hold up upon impact - most people will tell you they were glad they weren't in anything else (although big Mercs & Volvos are pretty tough too).
If you're hoping that 987's will hopefully come down a bit in price to a level that you can only just afford if you stretch yourself, I'd say it's the wrong thing to do. Read the various threads on here on PPI (pre purchase inspection) to hopefully avoid a really bad one but even so you still need to be able to deal with the unexpected. Much better to get a really good 986 and be able to look after it properly than a 987 that becomes an expensive ornament if it has to sit around waiting for you to save up for an unexpected repair.
It is mandatory on new models introduced from 2012 and from around 2015 for every new car.
Having crashed a few Porsches myself (race ones, but having used the basic structure of the car - e.g. front end impact) of up to 30+ years old and knowing people who've had bumps on the road, everyone is always very impressed in how well they hold up upon impact - most people will tell you they were glad they weren't in anything else (although big Mercs & Volvos are pretty tough too).
If you're hoping that 987's will hopefully come down a bit in price to a level that you can only just afford if you stretch yourself, I'd say it's the wrong thing to do. Read the various threads on here on PPI (pre purchase inspection) to hopefully avoid a really bad one but even so you still need to be able to deal with the unexpected. Much better to get a really good 986 and be able to look after it properly than a 987 that becomes an expensive ornament if it has to sit around waiting for you to save up for an unexpected repair.
I've had first hand experience of a crash in a 986 when someone coming the other way at high speed lost control. He was sideways in the middle of the road with all 4 wheels locked up at about 60mph. I wasn't going very fast when I first saw him and was probably stationary when he hit me. As I had no options of avoiding him I elected to steer into him a little to ensure I used as much of the front crumple zone as possible. Here's the result:
The red car is the one that hit me. As you can see, the lack of an engine in the front makes for a superb crumple zone and this fact probably saved my life. There's not many other cars I can think of that I'd rather be in for a front end impact. Wouldn't be quite so keen to be rear-ended mind...
As others have said above, if you get a 986 make sure it has PSM on it. Having seen what this can do on a Porsche driving day, I'd say it is probably one of the biggest automotive safety advances since the invention of the headlight; no surprise it is becoming mandatory on new cars. That aside, if you think of the various crash scenarios I'm not sure there would be that much difference between a 986 and a 987.
I met someone on a Porsche day who had experienced a blow out at motorway speed and lost control of the car leading to it rolling. Her only significant injury was a broken thumb from having it wrapped around the steering wheel. As with me, she bought another Boxster to replace the one she'd had. While I love soft top cars, I do have concerns about rolling as you are essentially opening up the passenger compartment to any intrusion (or body part coming free eg arm being crushed).
Ultimately though if you push the safety thing to the fullest extent, you'd never leave the house. Big 4x4 cars are meant to be good places to be if you are going to hit something, but personally I'd prefer to have something more manoeuvreable and have a better chance to avoid the impact in the first place (I have a suspicion the stats back this up). In the same way that every car will protect you differently, each accident will be different too and you just have to hope that if the moment is upon you that you're in the right car at the right time.
For me, the right car at the right time would have been the VW Golf in front of me. As I was destined to be where I was at that time, I'm pleased I was in the 986.
The red car is the one that hit me. As you can see, the lack of an engine in the front makes for a superb crumple zone and this fact probably saved my life. There's not many other cars I can think of that I'd rather be in for a front end impact. Wouldn't be quite so keen to be rear-ended mind...
As others have said above, if you get a 986 make sure it has PSM on it. Having seen what this can do on a Porsche driving day, I'd say it is probably one of the biggest automotive safety advances since the invention of the headlight; no surprise it is becoming mandatory on new cars. That aside, if you think of the various crash scenarios I'm not sure there would be that much difference between a 986 and a 987.
I met someone on a Porsche day who had experienced a blow out at motorway speed and lost control of the car leading to it rolling. Her only significant injury was a broken thumb from having it wrapped around the steering wheel. As with me, she bought another Boxster to replace the one she'd had. While I love soft top cars, I do have concerns about rolling as you are essentially opening up the passenger compartment to any intrusion (or body part coming free eg arm being crushed).
Ultimately though if you push the safety thing to the fullest extent, you'd never leave the house. Big 4x4 cars are meant to be good places to be if you are going to hit something, but personally I'd prefer to have something more manoeuvreable and have a better chance to avoid the impact in the first place (I have a suspicion the stats back this up). In the same way that every car will protect you differently, each accident will be different too and you just have to hope that if the moment is upon you that you're in the right car at the right time.
For me, the right car at the right time would have been the VW Golf in front of me. As I was destined to be where I was at that time, I'm pleased I was in the 986.
Edited by UVB on Thursday 27th October 19:55
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