Ceramic brakes?

[AMG Merc]

Does anyone know whether the brake pads are different for ceramic discs over steel disks? Also whether they cost more?

How reliable are Porsche ceramics? I understand that Brembo makes them and the first series (around 07/07) were a bit iffy (same for Ferrari) - comments?

Is all round replacement around £5000?

ANy experience comparing steel to ceramic discs?

[majordad]

And just wondering outloud here, how much would it cost me in parts to put ceramics all round on my gt3 rs 2011 ? I expect millions, but maybe not, getting a good discount from my OPC would help. What parts are actually needed ?

[layo]

majordad said:

And just wondering outloud here, how much would it cost me in parts to put ceramics all round on my gt3 rs 2011 ? I expect millions, but maybe not, getting a good discount from my OPC would help. What parts are actually needed ?

I priced it up a few years ago for a mk1 7.gt3 & it came in at approx £17K

[Phooey]

layo said:

I priced it up a few years ago for a mk1 7.gt3 & it came in at approx £17K

If we can get mine to fit off my Spyder... i'll swap for yer poxy steels and £5k. Bargain!

[majordad]

Phooey, Ya So ! Wonder will they fit.

[Phooey]

majordad said:

Wonder will they fit.

They'll deffo fit mucka. 30mm short at the front... but nowt serious to lose beauty sleep over

http://www.porsche.com/microsite/technology/defaul...

[Slippydiff]

AMG Merc said:

Does anyone know whether the brake pads are different for ceramic discs over steel disks? Also whether they cost more?

How reliable are Porsche ceramics? I understand that Brembo makes them and the first series (around 07/07) were a bit iffy (same for Ferrari) - comments?

Is all round replacement around £5000?

ANy experience comparing steel to ceramic discs?

Yes the pads are different.

Early 350mm ceramic discs (circa 2001) as fitted to the 996 GT2 and as an option on 996 Turbo, Mk 2 GT3 and GT3 RS had issues.
Subsequent later generations have been improved, mainly by improving the internal venting in an attempt to aid heat management.
Porsche AG finally established that the best way to deal with the thermal issues they were faced with was to increase the size (diameter) of the disc. Hence the 997 was given 380mm front discs as opposed to the 350mm fitted to the 996.

The early discs were made my SGL who subsequently merged with/were taken over by Brembo.

The last time I enquired the 380mm discs fitted to the Gen 997 GT3 and RS were ITRO £3500 + VAT per corner. So closer to £14K + pads and fitting.

Differences with regards to steels and ceramics ? it's a subjective topic, so probably best you do a search on here and read the differing views from those that have run cars with both. Personally I'm all in favour of them for road use. If I was regularly tracking a car I think I'd paly it safe with steels.

HTH

[AMG Merc]

Many thanks SD - I'm erring towards avoiding ceramics just in case

I'm sure the standards are up to road use plus.

[SFO]

Slippydiff said:

The last time I enquired the 380mm discs fitted to the Gen 997 GT3 and RS were ITRO £3500 + VAT per corner. So closer to £14K + pads and fitting.

that makes the OEM price at about 5.5k seems like a give away

[ChrisW.]

For me it was no brainer to have them, they are fab, and if I do destroy them I have the larger callipers already on the car to fit 350mm steels all round ...

[Angelus]

So although these are described as Ceramic, they are not the same as the Porsche ceramic? Shirley at under £600 a corner are a better replacement than steels? No?

[Slippydiff]

Angelus said:

So although these are described as Ceramic, they are not the same as the Porsche ceramic? Shirley at under £600 a corner are a better replacement than steels? No?

As I understand it they are steel replacements (but I stand to be corrected).
There's nothing "ceramic" about the materials the discs are manufactured from whatsoever, the use of the word ceramic in the description is merely there because they are a correctly sized replacement for ceramic discs.

[scarebus]

Angelus said:

So although these are described as Ceramic, they are not the same as the Porsche ceramic? Shirley at under £600 a corner are a better replacement than steels? No?

Good point.... Looks like the real deal!

[AMG Merc]

ChrisW. said:

For me it was no brainer to have them, they are fab, and if I do destroy them I have the larger callipers already on the car to fit 350mm steels all round ...

Interesting Chris. So the ceramic larger callipers will fit straight onto the smaller steel disc?

[Slippydiff]

scarebus said:

Good point.... Looks like the real deal!

CERAMIC HTCIC (High-Tech-Cast-Iron-Carbon)

I'd do some very thorough research before you go out and buy a set to replace a set of genuine PCCBs.

[Angelus]

Slippydiff said:

CERAMIC HTCIC (High-Tech-Cast-Iron-Carbon)

I'd do some very thorough research before you go out and buy a set to replace a set of genuine PCCBs.

I was asking a question, so would steels better than these? I don't have ceramics, I'm just curious (about the discs).

[sidicks]

So let me get this straight:

Cost of Ceramic brakes on a new 911 = £6k or thereabouts
- with normal road use, these should last for the lifetime of the car (150k miles plus ??)
- Discs should only need to be replaced if damaged?
- Pad changes required as 'normal'? (are the pads changed with similar frequency as pads for standard brakes, and are the pads the same (or similar) price?

Standard brake discs would be changed every 20-30k, so you would need 5+ disc changes over the lifetime of the car, which would cost more than the PCCBs in the first place.

Plus of course the obvious advantages of lighter unsprung weight, fade free braking, reduced brake dust etc.

I hadn't previously considered PCCBs for my next 911, but there appears to be good reason for doing so.

I note that PCCBs don't seem to command much of a premium on a used car (compared to the £6k new cost, let alone the £17k replacement cost) - is this because of problems with the Gen I or Gen II versions which have hopefully now been ironed out.

Might Gen III versions become more desirable on a second hand car if they are 'proven' to provide all the advantages and minimal disadvantages originally promised??
???
Sidicks

[sidicks]

Slippydiff said:

Porsche AG finally established that the best way to deal with the thermal issues they were faced with was to increase the size (diameter) of the disc. Hence the 997 was given 380mm front discs as opposed to the 350mm fitted to the 996.

According to the New 911 brochure, PCCBs are 350mm all round.....
??
Sidicks

[Slippydiff]

sidicks said:

According to the New 911 brochure, PCCBs are 350mm all round.....
??
Sidicks

Maybe on Cayman, Boxster and lesser non GT 997s they are ? but on GT3/RS and GT2 they're the larger diameter items.

[Slippydiff]

Angelus said:

I was asking a question, so would steels better than these? I don't have ceramics, I'm just curious (about the discs).

I didn't say you did have PCCBs I said if you were considering them as a replacement for genuine ceramics I'd think hard before doing so.

As for whether they're better or worse than the other steel options currently available ? as far as I can see (and I'll state again, I stand to be corrected) these are steel/cast iron discs.

I very much doubt they're better quality than Alcons, Performance Friction or Brembo, but for all I know, they may just be the next big thing to appear on every 996 GT3/RS/GT2 that gets tracked in the UK (but I somehow doubt it . . . . . )