968 sport & CS prices & ownership
Discussion
Evening all,
Having looked at them on and off for years I'm intrigued to know whether the CS is really worth the extra over the Sport - I'm very unlikely to track the car (sacrilege in many eyes I know)? And are there any guides for either car with 80k or so miles money wise. There seem to be few out there so it's hard to gauge without following prices for a very long period of time. Currently there's a nice CS at Strasse and a black 77k sport on here.
Cheers for your thoughts.
Having looked at them on and off for years I'm intrigued to know whether the CS is really worth the extra over the Sport - I'm very unlikely to track the car (sacrilege in many eyes I know)? And are there any guides for either car with 80k or so miles money wise. There seem to be few out there so it's hard to gauge without following prices for a very long period of time. Currently there's a nice CS at Strasse and a black 77k sport on here.
Cheers for your thoughts.
acme said:
Evening all,
Having looked at them on and off for years I'm intrigued to know whether the CS is really worth the extra over the Sport - I'm very unlikely to track the car (sacrilege in many eyes I know)? And are there any guides for either car with 80k or so miles money wise. There seem to be few out there so it's hard to gauge without following prices for a very long period of time. Currently there's a nice CS at Strasse and a black 77k sport on here.
Cheers for your thoughts.
I've got the CS. Love it. Best Porsche I have ever owned. The one at Strasse hasn't the oe race seats; IMO It isn't fullfat without them. (oe race seats are very comfortable by the way and very expensive to source if you wanted to fit at a later date)Having looked at them on and off for years I'm intrigued to know whether the CS is really worth the extra over the Sport - I'm very unlikely to track the car (sacrilege in many eyes I know)? And are there any guides for either car with 80k or so miles money wise. There seem to be few out there so it's hard to gauge without following prices for a very long period of time. Currently there's a nice CS at Strasse and a black 77k sport on here.
Cheers for your thoughts.
I know there really isn't a great difference between the Sport or CS. Wrongly, a Sport is classed by many as just another 968. A CS ..... well they hold alot of respect in the petrol head community and the motoring press to this day. Good link here to a road test from back in the early nineties. http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsHisto... What it states at the end of the article compared to the 964RS is interesting considering the fanclub the RS has today.
Prices vary immensly. There are very few good original Club Sports left that haven't been pranged at some stage. I would not entertain prices of above 15K if it aint got the oe race seats. Comfort seats in a track focused car like a CS just seem wrong. Saying that, I find mine a very comfortable car on all but the roughest roads. 400 miles plus per day is no problem.
You will also be amazed at the condition of some. I saw at least three before I bought mine and was shocked at the condition, quite often lack of providence and each had issues.
Lastly, I might just know where one might be for sale if your interested but it will be more money than the one at Strasse.
Edited by Wozy68 on Friday 18th November 22:19
Went through the same questions myself and couldn't work out whether to go for a modified Coupe, a Sport or lash out and get a CS. I ended up rationalising it by looking at other lightweight Porsches - the 968 CS is the lightweight version, the pure version. The extra purchase cost now should be reflected in resale, and having driven one the compromises are minor enough to not be an issue (I can cope with wind up windows and no A/C).
I (hopefully) pick up my 968CS tomorrow morning. Can't wait :-)
I (hopefully) pick up my 968CS tomorrow morning. Can't wait :-)
Guys, what you need to remember is that a Sport IS a Club Sport.
For those of you who dont know, the Sport was 'created' by Porsche GB due to requests from buyers wanting something with the dynamics of the CS with a few comforts put back in, like rear seats, sunroof, elec windows comfort seats and a couple of other minor things. Porsche sold it for £32995, a 3k increase over the CS.
They were ordered as Club Sports from Stuttgart with these options (Which lots of CS have anyway!) with the badge deleted. The 'Sport' badge was stuck on at Reading. I think it was a 928 item?
This makes the Sport a bargain and actually rarer than the CS (306 'made').
MTR
For those of you who dont know, the Sport was 'created' by Porsche GB due to requests from buyers wanting something with the dynamics of the CS with a few comforts put back in, like rear seats, sunroof, elec windows comfort seats and a couple of other minor things. Porsche sold it for £32995, a 3k increase over the CS.
They were ordered as Club Sports from Stuttgart with these options (Which lots of CS have anyway!) with the badge deleted. The 'Sport' badge was stuck on at Reading. I think it was a 928 item?
This makes the Sport a bargain and actually rarer than the CS (306 'made').
MTR
mollytherocker said:
Guys, what you need to remember is that a Sport IS a Club Sport
Mate it never seems to matter how many times this is said ppl just don't get it. I wouldn't put it past anyone in this climate to buy a nice sport, stuff some decals and seats in it, rear seat delete etc. then sell on as a CS for a nice tasty profit.
NJH said:
mollytherocker said:
Guys, what you need to remember is that a Sport IS a Club Sport
Mate it never seems to matter how many times this is said ppl just don't get it. I wouldn't put it past anyone in this climate to buy a nice sport, stuff some decals and seats in it, rear seat delete etc. then sell on as a CS for a nice tasty profit.
MTR
I know the Sport is a CS derivative, and strongly considered one BUT as you've pointed out the market doesn't necessarily see it.
To say the Sport is rarer is slightly disingenuous - in terms of RHD fleet the CS numbers only 179 so as far as the UK is concerned it is the less common derivative.
To say the Sport is rarer is slightly disingenuous - in terms of RHD fleet the CS numbers only 179 so as far as the UK is concerned it is the less common derivative.
mollytherocker said:
It must have been done surely! How would you tell? I guess Porsche GB would know, but would Stuttgart?
MTR
It states it on the log book. .... well mine does at least, 968CS. Can't see how anyone could have that altered from the original unless they nick the chassis ...... MTR
sold mine today for full asking price and as mentioned above there is very little difference between the sport and CS that you would notice when driving but then its your head doing the work... as for the emotional element and the cachet of owning a CS... well that a different matter altogether and only you can answer whether it is worth paying potentially double for that!
RC said:
there is very little difference between the sport and CS that you would notice when driving but then its your head doing the work..
But gullible people are prepared to pay thousands more for a sport with pole positions and some bits thrown out, slap some worn out MO30 on and the anoraks cream themselves.The comparison to the 964RS is a good one to make for the simple fact that it shows how unspecial the CS is. Try and make an RS from a standard 964 and be prepared to pay a small fortune. The historical facts never seem to sink in; 1) CS was the cheapeast model, 2) UK special sport was a CS with some of the comfort stuff put back in 3) regardless of 1 & 2 both models have the same suspension and running gear as a bone stock 968, the key difference being the front springs are a bit shorter to lower the car a bit. All the other options such as M030 or the LSD could have been ordered for any variant.
Now whilst I can see that a CS that came from the factory with M030 etc, non sunroof etc. has that catchet not just of CS prep but having the factory go faster mods, its well worth bearing in mind that all the contempary road tests preferred the normal CS i.e. the car that is like a standard 968 with lowering springs, 17" wheels and bit less weight. The weight part you can do yourself for free by just removing bits and pieces from the car.
Still though I would have one safe in the knowledge that its depreciation proof, bit like Rolex you know its not worth the money but you buy it anyway because you know you will get your money back.
Now whilst I can see that a CS that came from the factory with M030 etc, non sunroof etc. has that catchet not just of CS prep but having the factory go faster mods, its well worth bearing in mind that all the contempary road tests preferred the normal CS i.e. the car that is like a standard 968 with lowering springs, 17" wheels and bit less weight. The weight part you can do yourself for free by just removing bits and pieces from the car.
Still though I would have one safe in the knowledge that its depreciation proof, bit like Rolex you know its not worth the money but you buy it anyway because you know you will get your money back.
NJH said:
The comparison to the 964RS is a good one to make for the simple fact that it shows how unspecial the CS is. Try and make an RS from a standard 964 and be prepared to pay a small fortune. The historical facts never seem to sink in; 1) CS was the cheapeast model, 2) UK special sport was a CS with some of the comfort stuff put back in 3) regardless of 1 & 2 both models have the same suspension and running gear as a bone stock 968, the key difference being the front springs are a bit shorter to lower the car a bit. All the other options such as M030 or the LSD could have been ordered for any variant.
Now whilst I can see that a CS that came from the factory with M030 etc, non sunroof etc. has that catchet not just of CS prep but having the factory go faster mods, its well worth bearing in mind that all the contempary road tests preferred the normal CS i.e. the car that is like a standard 968 with lowering springs, 17" wheels and bit less weight. The weight part you can do yourself for free by just removing bits and pieces from the car.
Still though I would have one safe in the knowledge that its depreciation proof, bit like Rolex you know its not worth the money but you buy it anyway because you know you will get your money back.
I see what your saying and agree to most of it, however when I bought my first 911 964 around 7 years ago, a good one was about 15 - 18K, a 964 RS was about 8 - 10K more if memory is correct. Reason for this? Simples, the RS may well have been a rare fantastic track car, but from new it was rated as a poor road car. Most if not all reviews of the early nineties were not keen. This was still the case until 'investors' got involved in the market. But now look at prices, are all these cars only tracked? Now whilst I can see that a CS that came from the factory with M030 etc, non sunroof etc. has that catchet not just of CS prep but having the factory go faster mods, its well worth bearing in mind that all the contempary road tests preferred the normal CS i.e. the car that is like a standard 968 with lowering springs, 17" wheels and bit less weight. The weight part you can do yourself for free by just removing bits and pieces from the car.
Still though I would have one safe in the knowledge that its depreciation proof, bit like Rolex you know its not worth the money but you buy it anyway because you know you will get your money back.
A CS 968 was rated as a fab road and track car, far better than the 'standard' 968 (and still is) even if its a tarted up 968, rated better or as least as good as an RS in its day; you can't argue with that.
Lastly look at the prices of the 3.2CS. What are they now 50K? and just how much better is it or different from the standard 3.2. 35K worth?
Like I said I agree with what you say, however an RS starting price is at 3.5 times now the price of a good standard 964 (compare this to only seven years ago at around 1.5), a 3,2 911CS is probs as much. Yet neither cost more than about 20% of the standard cars price when new.
So with only 179 CS built, still to this day rated extremely highly as an all round drives car by the public and road testers alike, I'm not suprised for example that Octane magazine stated this month that now is the time to buy.
Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 20th November 11:54
No I agree, I can remember the days when an RS could be bought for £25K and the 3.2CS was worth barely any more than a standard 3.2. What I have never understood though is why genuinely rare and special cars such as the 924 carrera GT or GTS are not worth more, a lot more. I can tell you one thing for sure if it was £20K of my money on either a 924 carrera GT or a 968CS the earlier car will win every time.
NJH said:
Should have added that all 968s are rare in this country, our tiptronic for example is one of only about 50 cars. ISTR the sport was the most popular for fairly obvious reasons.
968's are rare because Porsche couldn't sell them at the price and the CS was a way to get the price down nothing more, I considered a CS few years back but when I discovered it was heavier than an S2 and the go faster sticker on the side meant very little I lost interest, now CS's seem to be favoured by speculators and polishers but valueing one higher than a sport is just silly, it's the same car FFS.blade7 said:
968's are rare because Porsche couldn't sell them at the price and the CS was a way to get the price down nothing more, I considered a CS few years back but when I discovered it was heavier than an S2 and the go faster sticker on the side meant very little I lost interest, now CS's seem to be favoured by speculators and polishers but valueing one higher than a sport is just silly, it's the same car FFS.
CS (or Sport) is a cracking car - particularly on track - made all the better with buckets, M030 , and it is the CS models that tend to have these which, for me goes a long way to justifying the premium over the Sport. So not always quite the same car. Declared interest : I own a 968 CS with M030, LSD and no sunroof - and no polish either!
NJH said:
What I have never understood though is why genuinely rare and special cars such as the 924 carrera GT or GTS are not worth more, a lot more. I can tell you one thing for sure if it was £20K of my money on either a 924 carrera GT or a 968CS the earlier car will win every time.
Absolutly, I got sooooo close to buying a genuine black 924 Carrera GT a couple of years back. Beautiful car, it will become an investors choice sooner rather than later me thinks.One last word on the CS. It was called a Club Sport. Doesn't matter if its the same car as a Sport. Its got the magic two words in its description and it was a pretty damn good 'cheaper' version of the standard 68 at that. Marketers dream and it paid off, it also should not be forgotton that it was a lighter version of a standard Porsche and this was in the early nineties ..... Porsche was adding on the weight in those days, not taking it off. That in its self was unusual.
I own one, I'm bound to be protective about the car, however it really is fab to drive, its rare, it was reasonably cheap to buy, you hardly ever see another, it still amazes me how many people are interested in stopping and chatting about it and I look forward to driving it everytime I have chance too. Simply better to drive than any aircooled era 911 IMO.
They are all good to drive, take a coupe with 17 inch wheels and swap the heavy seats for buckets and compare with a Sport or a CS and I am pretty sure that in a blind test you would never know the difference. They are the same car save some lowering springs. Having said that, if I was entering the market and was not looking to modify and had the cash I would buy the cleanest, lowest mileage CS I could find, not because it is the better car but just because its place in history is already confirmed and as such it is the safest place for my cash of the three options.
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