To 993, or not to 993...
Discussion
My first post in the Porsche forums... please be gentle 
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I'm trying to decide what to lay out £20-£30k on for an only car that will do 15,000 miles a year of commuting plus a few track days and other weekend fun. Need to do something soon as my current drive will be gone at the end of next week.
The lead contenders are a slightly used VX220 turbo or a '96ish 993.
A used VXT should be around £22k and for a couple of grand worth of mods I could get it up from 200 to 240 bhp. Great track day fun, power-to-weight as good as the Griff, very useable power in every day driving, still under warranty, cheap servicing, but... a bit spartan inside, no real "soul" IMO, and while feeling every ripple in the road is great on the track it's not such a good feature on a long drive home.
A 993 in good condition and moderate miles I guess I can find privately for around £25-£27k. It's going to cost more in servicing and maintenance, but I expect it to be a car I would enjoy more on the road and the track, and as something more special I know I would cherish it more than I would a VXT.
So thats my dilemma - '03 VXT or '96ish 993? A couple of questions I hope 993 owners here can help me with:
- How much should I budget for servicing and things that go pop? For the Griff I reckoned on £2500pa
- Where are 993s advertised for private sale? Pistonheads, Autotrader, ....?
- 20,000m per year. Sensible?
Finally a cheeky plea. I've thrashed a VX around the track and been a passenger in a VXT so know what to expect there, but haven't had any experience of a 993. Desk research can only get you so far and I don't think its fair to waste private sellers' time when I'm not sure if its the car for me, so... would any 993 owner around Berks, Oxon, Bucks care to show me what these cars are all about?
Don
>>> Edited by Ffirg 005 on Monday 28th June 12:30
. I'm trying to decide what to lay out £20-£30k on for an only car that will do 15,000 miles a year of commuting plus a few track days and other weekend fun. Need to do something soon as my current drive will be gone at the end of next week.
The lead contenders are a slightly used VX220 turbo or a '96ish 993.
A used VXT should be around £22k and for a couple of grand worth of mods I could get it up from 200 to 240 bhp. Great track day fun, power-to-weight as good as the Griff, very useable power in every day driving, still under warranty, cheap servicing, but... a bit spartan inside, no real "soul" IMO, and while feeling every ripple in the road is great on the track it's not such a good feature on a long drive home.
A 993 in good condition and moderate miles I guess I can find privately for around £25-£27k. It's going to cost more in servicing and maintenance, but I expect it to be a car I would enjoy more on the road and the track, and as something more special I know I would cherish it more than I would a VXT.
So thats my dilemma - '03 VXT or '96ish 993? A couple of questions I hope 993 owners here can help me with:
- How much should I budget for servicing and things that go pop? For the Griff I reckoned on £2500pa
- Where are 993s advertised for private sale? Pistonheads, Autotrader, ....?
- 20,000m per year. Sensible?
Finally a cheeky plea. I've thrashed a VX around the track and been a passenger in a VXT so know what to expect there, but haven't had any experience of a 993. Desk research can only get you so far and I don't think its fair to waste private sellers' time when I'm not sure if its the car for me, so... would any 993 owner around Berks, Oxon, Bucks care to show me what these cars are all about?
Don
>>> Edited by Ffirg 005 on Monday 28th June 12:30
Don,
Having driven both cars, I would say that the VX is definitely not a car for doing 15,000 miles in. Way too uncomfortable for my taste, but fab for weekend blasts. The 993 on the otherhand will eat the miles easily and will be very comfortable. The downside is that the porker will be quite a bit slower. But, as you said, it will have plenty of soul.
Like you, I have just moved from a Griff and pick uip my 993 cab this week. I live in Bucks and would be happy to meet up.
Not totally sure on servicing cots as both my previous 993'd were turbo's. That said, they cost c. £2k per year, so I think you've got that covered.
Dave
Having driven both cars, I would say that the VX is definitely not a car for doing 15,000 miles in. Way too uncomfortable for my taste, but fab for weekend blasts. The 993 on the otherhand will eat the miles easily and will be very comfortable. The downside is that the porker will be quite a bit slower. But, as you said, it will have plenty of soul.
Like you, I have just moved from a Griff and pick uip my 993 cab this week. I live in Bucks and would be happy to meet up.
Not totally sure on servicing cots as both my previous 993'd were turbo's. That said, they cost c. £2k per year, so I think you've got that covered.
Dave
Don,
My recommendation is the 993 for by a fair margin. I privately imported a LHD 993C2 a few years ago, servicing is not in the £2500 league at all. More like £1,500 if you use it hard. For your money you can even look at LHD 993TTT’s ! see www.mobile.de . The 993 was the best build Porker ever. I know a lot of people say this. Remember this translates to component wear levels that other manufacturers (Vauxhall?) dream of. Clutches are a £800 engine out job – best timed to co-incide with a major service for cost savings.
I went on a recent track day with a real mix of cars. A VX was marginally slower than a bog standard 993C4 – and the driver of the 993 smiled more ! A 993 is a lovely commuter car, I used mine for a London to Newbury daily run and it was not tiring at all, and gave 28+ Mpg too at a steady 80mph.
Depreciation will be lower on the Porker too. The Porsche is an accomplished legend of a car bestowed with customer loyalty for good reasons. The VX is excellent, but delicate, basic, small, lacks rear seats, convertible (which I don’t like). The Porker is a honest to god beast – reassuring and challenging as a drivers car. Take a real look at 993TTs in LHD cars - they are great value and rocket ships !
Having said all that “it is not about how fast it goes but how it goes fast” – the Porker scores on both counts anyhow.
My recommendation is the 993 for by a fair margin. I privately imported a LHD 993C2 a few years ago, servicing is not in the £2500 league at all. More like £1,500 if you use it hard. For your money you can even look at LHD 993TTT’s ! see www.mobile.de . The 993 was the best build Porker ever. I know a lot of people say this. Remember this translates to component wear levels that other manufacturers (Vauxhall?) dream of. Clutches are a £800 engine out job – best timed to co-incide with a major service for cost savings.
I went on a recent track day with a real mix of cars. A VX was marginally slower than a bog standard 993C4 – and the driver of the 993 smiled more ! A 993 is a lovely commuter car, I used mine for a London to Newbury daily run and it was not tiring at all, and gave 28+ Mpg too at a steady 80mph.
Depreciation will be lower on the Porker too. The Porsche is an accomplished legend of a car bestowed with customer loyalty for good reasons. The VX is excellent, but delicate, basic, small, lacks rear seats, convertible (which I don’t like). The Porker is a honest to god beast – reassuring and challenging as a drivers car. Take a real look at 993TTs in LHD cars - they are great value and rocket ships !
Having said all that “it is not about how fast it goes but how it goes fast” – the Porker scores on both counts anyhow.
cyrus1971 said:
“it is not about how fast it goes but how it goes fast”
Nice quote - captures my thoughts on the dilemma exactly. Like the Griff, which I know isn't really that quick in the real world or on the track, but it sure feels like it is!
I know there are LHD bargains out there but it makes A-road overtaking a bit more exciting than I like it to be. A romatic weekend's driving in France can be ruined by the 100th repetition of "Is it clear yet?"... NO!!!! Oh, and the security barriers at work are all swiped on the right
Ffirg 005 said:
So thats my dilemma - '03 VXT or '96ish 993? A couple of questions I hope 993 owners here can help me with:
- How much should I budget for servicing and things that go pop? For the Griff I reckoned on £2500pa
- Where are 993s advertised for private sale? Pistonheads, Autotrader, ....?
- 20,000m per year. Sensible?
Don
If you buy wisely, you should be able to run a good 993 via an independant for under £500 per year. OPC servicing costs a little more, but they charge the labour at "classic" rates which saves a little.
In addition to the two routes mentioned, I would reccommend joining the PCGB to access Porsche Post and the possibly the classified section of 911 & Porsche World, you can view this on line.
PCGB membership also gets discount on servicing at OPC`s.
20K miles PA in a 993?...a breeze!
Ffirg 005 said:
[
Like the Griff, which I know isn't really that quick in the real world or on the track, but it sure feels like it is!
hmm. have to disagree there.not only does it feel real world quick, but IT IS REAL WORLD QUICK.
last year on my le mans trip with some fezza friends (355,360 and 456) only did the 456 really show it legs at over 160mph. there was nothing in it upto 150mph between all the cars. the griff was much quicker upto 40mph. all great cars though.
Some other contenders to think about:-
1] Porsche 968 Sport or Clubsport [only 2 seats] a good 75,000 mile example can be had for c£15k
2] Honda S2000 all the manners and toys, buy a GT and you get a hardtop for winter. LSD and no traction control = learn to drive it. 240 BHP RWD 28mpg on regular use. We even did 3300 miles in 13 days camping in my last one.
Food for thought
Allan
1] Porsche 968 Sport or Clubsport [only 2 seats] a good 75,000 mile example can be had for c£15k
2] Honda S2000 all the manners and toys, buy a GT and you get a hardtop for winter. LSD and no traction control = learn to drive it. 240 BHP RWD 28mpg on regular use. We even did 3300 miles in 13 days camping in my last one.
Food for thought
Allan
jodypress said:
Like the Griff, which I know isn't really that quick in the real world or on the track, but it sure feels like it is!
hmm. have to disagree there.not only does it feel real world quick, but IT IS REAL WORLD QUICK.
True, and I should have qualified that statement more. In a straight line and on a dry road, it's seriously fast and not much will keep up. I had Nitrons which improved the handling too, but even then a better handling car like a 911 or VXT would beat it in anything twisty. IMHO of course
I think you need to consider the Boxster S. It has a similar power-to-weight ratio to the 993 but it is easier to live with on a daily basis as it has a modern interior (great climate control etc) and it handles.......well, differently to the 993. Probably better! It has whacking big brakes too.
It is also cheap as chips to run and it will feel almost new.
I got a 2001 Y reg Boxster S with 31K miles from an OPC for 29 grand. Obviously it came with a year's warranty.
The Boxster S combines the talents and flavours of the VXT and the 993 and for the number of miles you want to do, it is the obvious choice.
It is also cheap as chips to run and it will feel almost new.
I got a 2001 Y reg Boxster S with 31K miles from an OPC for 29 grand. Obviously it came with a year's warranty.
The Boxster S combines the talents and flavours of the VXT and the 993 and for the number of miles you want to do, it is the obvious choice.
uktrucks said:
Some other contenders to think about:
1] Porsche 968 Sport or Clubsport
2] Honda S2000
Hmmmm....
I don't personally like the looks of the 968, though accept it would fulfill the performance needs. 911s somehow move seamlessly from looking current to looking classic, to my eye the 968 is neither (now) and looks a bit dated.
I've test driven an S2000 and it was a serious contendor for while. Beautiful gear change and handling, but although the BHP is there you have to wring its neck to get at it. I love a car with torque. And for me, the S2000 lacks soul.
Don
johnny senna said:
The Boxster S combines the talents and flavours of the VXT and the 993 and for the number of miles you want to do, it is the obvious choice.
Ah yes - the Boxster S. This was the 3rd contender before the list was down to 2.
The reasons it dropped off the list were:
- Depreciation (not bad I know - but not as good as an older 993, and more £s per year than a cheaper VXT IMO)
- Image. I know it doesn't deserve it, but it has got the hairdresser problem and unfortunately I'm shallow enough to care.
- "Soul" and the earlier quote about feeling fast over being fast. However you measure this, and it is subjective, I don't think a Boxster has as much as a 993. Maybe its just too good
Having said that, I can't argue with anything you've said Johnny and confess I've not driven or even been in one (though have been in a 2.7) so maybe I should make sure I do that before writing it off.
Don
>> Edited by Ffirg 005 on Monday 28th June 12:29
Hi Dusty, I wondered if you'd be along soon . Late change of plans - I got made an offer I couldn't refuse on the work front which was only confirmed two weeks before the flight out, so I'm in Blighty for at least another 6 months, more likely 12 months+. All happened after I'd sold the Griff of course - bugger! I've been in touch with its new owner - Dean - and he's a very happy bunny. Trust you're enjoying yours...
. Late change of plans - I got made an offer I couldn't refuse on the work front which was only confirmed two weeks before the flight out, so I'm in Blighty for at least another 6 months, more likely 12 months+. All happened after I'd sold the Griff of course - bugger! I've been in touch with its new owner - Dean - and he's a very happy bunny. Trust you're enjoying yours...Ffirg 005 said:
The Boxster S combines the talents and flavours of the VXT and the 993 and for the number of miles you want to do, it is the obvious choice.
Ah yes - the Boxster S. This was the 3rd contender before the list was down to 2.
The reasons it dropped off the list were:
- Depreciation (not bad I know - but not as good as an older 993, and more £s per year than a cheaper VXT IMO)
- Image. I know it doesn't deserve it, but it has got the hairdresser problem and unfortunately I'm shallow enough to care.
- "Soul" and the earlier quote about feeling fast over being fast. However you measure this, and it is subjective, I don't think a Boxster has as much as a 993. Maybe its just too good
Having said that, I can't argue with anything you've said Johnny and confess I've not driven or even been in one (though have been in a 2.7) so maybe I should make sure I do that before writing it off.
Don
>> Edited by Ffirg 005 on Monday 28th June 12:29
I see where you're coming from. Maybe you should get a test drive? If you buy privately, you won't lose much at all. Probably a grand or 2 in a year if you buy cheaply enough.
For what it's worth, the 993 was my second choice. You can't go wrong with either Porsche.
I've recently bought a RHD 993 TT, absolutely ballistic car. Solid, fun, exciting characterful, practical. I won't wax lyrical anymore, I think everyone else has already done that enough.
Asking the question on THIS forum will OBVIOUSLY illicit biassed replies....in favour of Porsches- that goes without saying.
All I'll say is that you left out an important part of the puzzle in your costing- The 993 is likely to depreciate ALOT less then the VX choice.
Asking the question on THIS forum will OBVIOUSLY illicit biassed replies....in favour of Porsches- that goes without saying.
All I'll say is that you left out an important part of the puzzle in your costing- The 993 is likely to depreciate ALOT less then the VX choice.
Thanks for all the comments - this is all really helping.
Agree on the depreciation of 993 vs VXT, and worse than this I know I wouldn't get much, if anything at all, back at resale time for whatever I spend on mods. I also agree with what a few have said about probably getting tired of the kart-like ride. One thing I liked about the Griff (one of MANY things Dusty) was that it could be a comfortable cruiser when you wanted it to be.
There's a 996 I've come across going privately for £29k - sounds cheap, or is it? 40k miles, '98 s reg, looks clean and standard though would of course get that checked out. I've read all the debate about 993 vs 996 and not trying to take this thread there - just interested in whether people think this sounds like an unrealistically low price for a 996?
Agree on the depreciation of 993 vs VXT, and worse than this I know I wouldn't get much, if anything at all, back at resale time for whatever I spend on mods. I also agree with what a few have said about probably getting tired of the kart-like ride. One thing I liked about the Griff (one of MANY things Dusty
) was that it could be a comfortable cruiser when you wanted it to be. There's a 996 I've come across going privately for £29k - sounds cheap, or is it? 40k miles, '98 s reg, looks clean and standard though would of course get that checked out. I've read all the debate about 993 vs 996 and not trying to take this thread there - just interested in whether people think this sounds like an unrealistically low price for a 996?
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