993/964 in Classifieds
Discussion
Going to be selling my Tuscan in the new year and thinking of replacing with a 993/964. I haven't started properly looking yet, but are the PH classifieds at the moment a good representation of the spread of prices/numbers of cars around or skewed because of the time of year?
Will be looking for a car around 15k probably so understnd this is the bottom end of the market.
Will be looking for a car around 15k probably so understnd this is the bottom end of the market.
Hi Salmon,
I've been in the same situation as yourself. For the budget you have, a 993 C2 Manual, will be slightly out of your reach for a well sorted one(IMO). The 15k ones I've seen for sale on here and elsewhere have needed work. If you were to push your budget up to 18k a world of choice opens up. you could be lucky though.
As for the 964, again people will tell you the 993 is a greater car, which it is, technology has moved on. But, for an everyday car, looks and sound, you can't go wrong in a well maintained, C2. The 964's and 993's are certainly going up in value so it might be the 964 for now and 993 later when funds allow, good luck with the search. I'm sure there will be other more learned peeps on to give their opinion and experience, I'm only coming from a water cooled background and about to experience the air-cooled one
.
I've been in the same situation as yourself. For the budget you have, a 993 C2 Manual, will be slightly out of your reach for a well sorted one(IMO). The 15k ones I've seen for sale on here and elsewhere have needed work. If you were to push your budget up to 18k a world of choice opens up. you could be lucky though.
As for the 964, again people will tell you the 993 is a greater car, which it is, technology has moved on. But, for an everyday car, looks and sound, you can't go wrong in a well maintained, C2. The 964's and 993's are certainly going up in value so it might be the 964 for now and 993 later when funds allow, good luck with the search. I'm sure there will be other more learned peeps on to give their opinion and experience, I'm only coming from a water cooled background and about to experience the air-cooled one
.Hi
Just wanted to say i was in exactly the same position I wanted 993 but was unsure i could afford one so was also looking at 964 I looked at loads and found I could buy a very good 964 around 100k miles full service history etc etc but after a 3 month search found a 130k mile no service history 993 every one told me not to buy as it was only £13k no history etc etc but i did and the only thing it needed was cam cover gaskets, ive had this done and absolutly love the car, its well made looks cool and goes like stink, its going to go up in value and is well made. The advise id give you is hold out for the right car you will get a really good 964 for your money, some of the 993 out there on piston heads have been there for an age, ok they may be over 8ok milage but dont be shy with an offer, i got over 1500 pounds knocked off advertised price when i went to see it, and its the best car ive owned and drives like a 30k mile car. good luck with your search
Just wanted to say i was in exactly the same position I wanted 993 but was unsure i could afford one so was also looking at 964 I looked at loads and found I could buy a very good 964 around 100k miles full service history etc etc but after a 3 month search found a 130k mile no service history 993 every one told me not to buy as it was only £13k no history etc etc but i did and the only thing it needed was cam cover gaskets, ive had this done and absolutly love the car, its well made looks cool and goes like stink, its going to go up in value and is well made. The advise id give you is hold out for the right car you will get a really good 964 for your money, some of the 993 out there on piston heads have been there for an age, ok they may be over 8ok milage but dont be shy with an offer, i got over 1500 pounds knocked off advertised price when i went to see it, and its the best car ive owned and drives like a 30k mile car. good luck with your search
The market supply of decent 993's & 964's is becoming increasingly reduced as time marches on, and the price span of narrow body 993's especially is very wide, say £13k upto even £35k for a mint low miler; a really nice 964 can still be had for around £20k, and a low mileage guards red one went for just under £20k not that long ago.
For a budget of £15k I'd be really careful with a 993 at that price because if you buy a dog, it will sour your whole experience; you might be lucky, but whatever else you do, make sure you have it inspected by someone who really knows the cars, before parting with your money.
I've had 964's & 993's and love them both, I still have a 993. If I was you, for your budget, I think I'd concentrate on the 964 market as I think you'll find it easier to find a nice 964 rather than a 993 for £15k.
All above is IMVHO, but Good Luck in your search, just take your time & wait for the right car to come along, you won't regret it.
For a budget of £15k I'd be really careful with a 993 at that price because if you buy a dog, it will sour your whole experience; you might be lucky, but whatever else you do, make sure you have it inspected by someone who really knows the cars, before parting with your money.
I've had 964's & 993's and love them both, I still have a 993. If I was you, for your budget, I think I'd concentrate on the 964 market as I think you'll find it easier to find a nice 964 rather than a 993 for £15k.
All above is IMVHO, but Good Luck in your search, just take your time & wait for the right car to come along, you won't regret it.
there is a silver g-plate 964 carrera driving around Lymington which looks absolutely amazing... the colour compliments the shape perfectly... i am now in love to the extent where i may sell my boxster and push some more pennies towards one, even though i think that the values for 964's and 993's are at an unsustainable high right now.
village idiot said:
...even though i think that the values for 964's and 993's are at an unsustainable high right now.
Really? prices will stall with all this economic doom and gloom and some people offloading but they will be rising again, that's a cert. Just my opinion though and I don't want to see another money topic. 
OP - There's a nice looking black 964 c2 manual coupe just come on the classifieds. If it checks out that is a lovely spec car for its next owner.
Eta- a smiley. I'm not nit-picking VI. Just my take on it.
Edited by marky911 on Wednesday 14th December 12:42
marky911 said:
Really? prices will stall with all this economic doom and gloom and some people offloading but they will be rising again, that's a cert. Just my opinion though and I don't want to see another money topic.
OP - There's a nice looking black 964 c2 manual coupe just come on the classifieds. If it checks out that is a lovely spec car for its next owner.
Eta- a smiley. I'm not nit-picking VI. Just my take on it.
i will almost certainly be wrong... just looking back at history... we're massively overdue for a correction in the classic car market... the ridiculous rise in values of cars such as 911 2.7RS's, 964 RS's etc etc has dragged the other cars up with them. In time, the current trend of seeing a car as a good place to 'invest' money will change (as it always has done in the past) and the values will bellyflop. Give it another 15yrs and we'll complete the full cycle and values will be sky-rocketing again.OP - There's a nice looking black 964 c2 manual coupe just come on the classifieds. If it checks out that is a lovely spec car for its next owner.
Eta- a smiley. I'm not nit-picking VI. Just my take on it.
Edited by marky911 on Wednesday 14th December 12:42
g7jhp said:
High mileage 993 with invoices to show it's had the necessary jobs done!
Ensure you get an inspection for the usual weak spots and watch for rust!
The above is the best way to buy a reasonable 993 for 15k. They take mileage well, so aslong as all of the usual maintenance jobs have been done recently and the condition is good (And I dont mean its shiny!!!), then go for it.Ensure you get an inspection for the usual weak spots and watch for rust!
The other way, is get a Cat D but only if it comes with proof of the repairs.
Generally though, trying to buy a 911 cheaply is a recipe for disaster, but it can be done if you know what you are doing and use a little common!
MTR
village idiot said:
i will almost certainly be wrong... just looking back at history... we're massively overdue for a correction in the classic car market... the ridiculous rise in values of cars such as 911 2.7RS's, 964 RS's etc etc has dragged the other cars up with them. In time, the current trend of seeing a car as a good place to 'invest' money will change (as it always has done in the past) and the values will bellyflop. Give it another 15yrs and we'll complete the full cycle and values will be sky-rocketing again.
Classics, unlike property, have only really fallen back once - at the end of the heady 80s when even new cars were selling way over list, property prices were through the roof, and people were awash with cash and credit. Who knows what the future holds but the current rise has been accompanied by very different economic circumstances and my 1970 911s is still worth a lot less than it cost to restore - even at today's inflated values. I for one hope they continue to rise, but cars should never be bought as investments!
Modern exotica are taking a hammering at the moment and I suspect that will worsen in the short term. I would much rather have my money in a 2.7 RS than a GT2 RS.
I know I am stating the obvious but as these cars get to a certain age, certain jobs need to be done and in my experience there are two types of owners of these ageing 911s. There is the owner that will spend the money and maintain the car as required and there is the other who won't.
When the price of an engine rebuild or rust repair can be a fairly substantial proportion of the purchase price, I can understand why these and other jobs might be neglected.
As time goes on there will be a greater disparity in price between the good cars and the bad cars. The good cars will get a bit more expensive as there will be less of them but also because certain buyers will be willing to pay more for the good car. The prices of poor cars will slip gradually further but there will always be a demand for them because they're cheap aircooled 911s. But someone at some point is going to have to pay for the work and there will be more and more threads asking whether anyone knows them or not.
Of course, if the values of the poorer cars fall low enough, economically they will be worth buying and fixing, but by this point you are looking at the same price as a good one in the first place.
Personally, I don't think regular 964s/993s prices will ever grow substantially but I do think there is some room there. However, when you factor in maintenance, you will always be losing money.
Being honest, I can't think of a more enjoyable way to spend a few quid.
When the price of an engine rebuild or rust repair can be a fairly substantial proportion of the purchase price, I can understand why these and other jobs might be neglected.
As time goes on there will be a greater disparity in price between the good cars and the bad cars. The good cars will get a bit more expensive as there will be less of them but also because certain buyers will be willing to pay more for the good car. The prices of poor cars will slip gradually further but there will always be a demand for them because they're cheap aircooled 911s. But someone at some point is going to have to pay for the work and there will be more and more threads asking whether anyone knows them or not.
Of course, if the values of the poorer cars fall low enough, economically they will be worth buying and fixing, but by this point you are looking at the same price as a good one in the first place.
Personally, I don't think regular 964s/993s prices will ever grow substantially but I do think there is some room there. However, when you factor in maintenance, you will always be losing money.
Being honest, I can't think of a more enjoyable way to spend a few quid.
Edited by sneaky schnell on Wednesday 14th December 18:28
BertBert said:
So they get too the point where they are resto cases and then get to the point where that becomes cash neutral, then cash positive like early 911s.
I think so. They are only viable restoration cases if they can be bought and restored for the price of a comparable unrestored car. However it might take a number of cars to be lost through neglect before the values turn enough. At the moment the cost of the work involved to fully restore one of these would be prohibitive compared to the end value. At the moment most don't need this amount of work but as long as there are cheap cars and people are buying them without a maintenance budget it might not take too long.It think it would take a real enthusiast to maintain their good car long enough to see this turn.
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