New car time, advice appreciated

[kotafey]

I'm going to need something with 4 theoretical seats and an auto box in the coming months (it will be my only car and the other half can only drive an auto). Having a reasonably useful boot is also a bonus.

The car still needs to be fast and entertaining to drive, as I do occasionally go out for a blast on the weekends. Fuel economy is not really a factor.

Based on that, I think I've narrowed it down to an Audi S5 or a 997.1 2S/4S tiptronic.

I've driven the S5 and was very impressed. Steering has less feel than my Cayman, but the quattro AWD is superb and the V8 sounds great. Have not driven a 997 yet but I'm guessing it will be like a heavier, faster, slightly less well-balanced Cayman?

On paper the S5 seems to be the sensible choice and it's at least £10k cheaper for a car of equivalent age + mileage, but for some reason I'm still hesitating. Budget is around £30k in total. Any thoughts? Has anyone owned both?

Thanks for your time

K

[daveyb662]

If I wanted a family orientated kind of sports car at that budget...would have to be the BMW M5 hands down!
Quicker, more comfortable and incredible sound.
(Although doesn't necessarily look the part).

[Slaav]

My thoughts for what they are worth are as follows:

You are obviously itching for a 911. It is less practical and more expensive but you seem to want one? BUY ONE!

YOu need 4 seats, so Boxster out. Hard 4rsed GT3 etc are out so that makes it simpler.

Useful boot means that you should consider the C2 NOT the C4! Do have a look at the difference. Side by side with your most used weekend bag. There is quite a difference in the size of the boots - the 4WD stuff in the front of the C4 means that there is not a massive boot!

If you can live with the smaller boot, then consider the C4 for the AWD for when the weather is bad and the Mrs is driving

£30K should get you into a nice 997 with Porsche Warranty. The kids will love it as well

The Tiptronic box is so easy to use but hated by many - I dont mind it but it is down to personal opinion obviously and I use ours in heavy traffic regularly.

Lastly, when and if you buy the S5 or (God forbid) an M5, you will forever still want to scratch that 911 itch. Cant put my finger on it but it will always be there

[tuffer]

Do whatever it takes to stretch to a PDK box.

[Phucker]

Auto. 4 seats. Fast. Decent boot. German build quality.

M3 V8 Coupe or saloon
C63

Just a couple of other options

[bqf]

kotafey said:

4 theoretical seats

Theres your problem. the theoretical 2 seats in most 911s are awful. My 7 year old can squeeze into my 996 C4 Cab rear seats but he hates it - the vibration of the engine basically wobbles straight through your back. It's really not nice (I tried it once on the way back from a party and it's horrid - even for kids its awful).

Get a real 4 seater - the S5 is probably a better choice - of course everyone loves 911s but they aren't practical at at all.

[doneitnow]

Slaav said:

My thoughts for what they are worth are as follows:

Useful boot means that you should consider the C2 NOT the C4! Do have a look at the difference. Side by side with your most used weekend bag. There is quite a difference in the size of the boots - the 4WD stuff in the front of the C4 means that there is not a massive boot!

If you can live with the smaller boot, then consider the C4 for the AWD for when the weather is bad and the Mrs is driving

£30K should get you into a nice 997 with Porsche Warranty. The kids will love it as well

The Tiptronic box is so easy to use but hated by many - I dont mind it but it is down to personal opinion obviously and I use ours in heavy traffic regularly.

Lastly, when and if you buy the S5 or (God forbid) an M5, you will forever still want to scratch that 911 itch. Cant put my finger on it but it will always be there

I have to say that when I was looking I thought the difference in the boot space was negligible, yes it was smaller but did not see it as a massive difference IMO.

[Slaav]

doneitnow said:

Slaav said:

My thoughts for what they are worth are as follows:

Useful boot means that you should consider the C2 NOT the C4! Do have a look at the difference. Side by side with your most used weekend bag. There is quite a difference in the size of the boots - the 4WD stuff in the front of the C4 means that there is not a massive boot!

If you can live with the smaller boot, then consider the C4 for the AWD for when the weather is bad and the Mrs is driving

£30K should get you into a nice 997 with Porsche Warranty. The kids will love it as well

The Tiptronic box is so easy to use but hated by many - I dont mind it but it is down to personal opinion obviously and I use ours in heavy traffic regularly.

Lastly, when and if you buy the S5 or (God forbid) an M5, you will forever still want to scratch that 911 itch. Cant put my finger on it but it will always be there

I have to say that when I was looking I thought the difference in the boot space was negligible, yes it was smaller but did not see it as a massive difference IMO.

Not a massive difference I admit but certainly noticable! Especially with a Cab and no option to stick too much 'in the back'

As I say, need to look at them side by side! And squeeze a bag or two into teh boot to decide?

[kotafey]

Thanks for the replies guys

Someone mentioned the M3 coupe - that is also a possibility, and it would come with a nicer DCT box. I have ruled out the C63 as it's a bit too lary for me.

Interesting point about the boot sizes in the 997, I didn't know there was a difference. I'll check it out when I go for a test drive.

I'm not sure if I have a 911 itch specifically or if it's just a case of not wanting to exit Porsche ownership just yet, because in different circumstances I would quite happily keep my Cayman for another couple of years.

[6C4GTS]

M6 - cheap as chips, big boot and good for other half, just about quick enough for a Sunday morning.

[doneitnow]

Slaav said:

Not a massive difference I admit but certainly noticable! Especially with a Cab and no option to stick too much 'in the back'

As I say, need to look at them side by side! And squeeze a bag or two into teh boot to decide?

Aha, was not referring to a cab.

[Callughan]

Maintenance costs will be one of the biggest differences.

[Kananga]

kotafey said:

Thanks for the replies guys

Someone mentioned the M3 coupe - that is also a possibility, and it would come with a nicer DCT box.

Just a personal view, but I prefer the M3 saloon... Looks great, especially the facelift model...

[christer]

Budget allowing I would definitely consider a Maserati GTS or Ferrari 612

[Slaav]

christer said:

Budget allowing I would definitely consider a Maserati GTS or Ferrari 612

More to the OP but these are two great ideas.....

OP, do you want the most practical choice - as in cold hard calculated decision; you know the sort of thing, piece of paper with pros and cons, stats etc - or do you want 'wow' and something intangible and special?

Although ridiculed on here at times, is the grin factor important? Do you want to look forward to taking it 'the long way around' on Sunday mornings getting the papers? etc etc.

What exactly is your priority or rank at least? SOunds fun!

[kotafey]

Slaav said:

More to the OP but these are two great ideas.....

OP, do you want the most practical choice - as in cold hard calculated decision; you know the sort of thing, piece of paper with pros and cons, stats etc - or do you want 'wow' and something intangible and special?

Although ridiculed on here at times, is the grin factor important? Do you want to look forward to taking it 'the long way around' on Sunday mornings getting the papers? etc etc.

What exactly is your priority or rank at least? SOunds fun!

I think this is the million dollar question. I would say both are equally important, which is very unhelpful I know.

There is a lovely approved C4S I have been eyeing up for a test drive. Basalt Black, 2006, 30k miles, tiptronic, PSE, BOSE, PCM and some other bits - up for £36,500 currently. I'm guessing up to 8% can be shaved off that, which would bring it close to budget.

However, for the same money I can pick up an approved Audi S5, 2011, with 2k miles and with all the toys. Not to mention that this would still have 2.5 years of the original warranty left. I know it wouldn't be a 911, but getting a nearly-new car like this is an option that is difficult to ignore.

There is a 997 C4S that parks near me sometimes and I had a look through the window at the rear seats last night. They were folded down (which probably says a lot) but I could see that there was no more than an inch of space between them and the front seats. Even with the front seat moved forward as far as possible, I don't see how 2 adults could fit in there. On the other hand in the S5 I climbed into the back and sat behind the guy from the dealership who was sitting in the driver's seat (both of us 6ft tall). It was a snug fit but definitely possible.

I should also mention that I love skiing and it's always been a dream of mine to do a road trip to the Alps by car. I did notice a C4S parked up at the resort in France last year. Am I right in thinking both cars (with appropriate rubber) would cope equally well with this sort of journey?

[Callughan]

kotafey said:

Slaav said:

More to the OP but these are two great ideas.....

OP, do you want the most practical choice - as in cold hard calculated decision; you know the sort of thing, piece of paper with pros and cons, stats etc - or do you want 'wow' and something intangible and special?

Although ridiculed on here at times, is the grin factor important? Do you want to look forward to taking it 'the long way around' on Sunday mornings getting the papers? etc etc.

What exactly is your priority or rank at least? SOunds fun!

I think this is the million dollar question. I would say both are equally important, which is very unhelpful I know.

There is a lovely approved C4S I have been eyeing up for a test drive. Basalt Black, 2006, 30k miles, tiptronic, PSE, BOSE, PCM and some other bits - up for £36,500 currently. I'm guessing up to 8% can be shaved off that, which would bring it close to budget.

However, for the same money I can pick up an approved Audi S5, 2011, with 2k miles and with all the toys. Not to mention that this would still have 2.5 years of the original warranty left. I know it wouldn't be a 911, but getting a nearly-new car like this is an option that is difficult to ignore.

There is a 997 C4S that parks near me sometimes and I had a look through the window at the rear seats last night. They were folded down (which probably says a lot) but I could see that there was no more than an inch of space between them and the front seats. Even with the front seat moved forward as far as possible, I don't see how 2 adults could fit in there. On the other hand in the S5 I climbed into the back and sat behind the guy from the dealership who was sitting in the driver's seat (both of us 6ft tall). It was a snug fit but definitely possible.

I should also mention that I love skiing and it's always been a dream of mine to do a road trip to the Alps by car. I did notice a C4S parked up at the resort in France last year. Am I right in thinking both cars (with appropriate rubber) would cope equally well with this sort of journey?

That's been on sale forever and keeps on being reduced, make sure you get them to throw in sports chrono, Arron is the man to speak to there. In my old 996 C4S I would often have adults in the back, it really isn't a problem. To add my car was driven as a daily in the snow with summer tyres and was fantastic.

[J-P]

kotafey said:

Slaav said:

More to the OP but these are two great ideas.....

OP, do you want the most practical choice - as in cold hard calculated decision; you know the sort of thing, piece of paper with pros and cons, stats etc - or do you want 'wow' and something intangible and special?

Although ridiculed on here at times, is the grin factor important? Do you want to look forward to taking it 'the long way around' on Sunday mornings getting the papers? etc etc.

What exactly is your priority or rank at least? SOunds fun!

I think this is the million dollar question. I would say both are equally important, which is very unhelpful I know.

There is a lovely approved C4S I have been eyeing up for a test drive. Basalt Black, 2006, 30k miles, tiptronic, PSE, BOSE, PCM and some other bits - up for £36,500 currently. I'm guessing up to 8% can be shaved off that, which would bring it close to budget.

However, for the same money I can pick up an approved Audi S5, 2011, with 2k miles and with all the toys. Not to mention that this would still have 2.5 years of the original warranty left. I know it wouldn't be a 911, but getting a nearly-new car like this is an option that is difficult to ignore.

There is a 997 C4S that parks near me sometimes and I had a look through the window at the rear seats last night. They were folded down (which probably says a lot) but I could see that there was no more than an inch of space between them and the front seats. Even with the front seat moved forward as far as possible, I don't see how 2 adults could fit in there. On the other hand in the S5 I climbed into the back and sat behind the guy from the dealership who was sitting in the driver's seat (both of us 6ft tall). It was a snug fit but definitely possible.

I should also mention that I love skiing and it's always been a dream of mine to do a road trip to the Alps by car. I did notice a C4S parked up at the resort in France last year. Am I right in thinking both cars (with appropriate rubber) would cope equally well with this sort of journey?

You can't fit adults in the back of a 911 unless they all have stumpy legs. Headroom in the rear is far too restrictive over any normal distance too! Yes both should be fine for a ski trip with appropriate rubber!

[belfry]

Kotsfey

Where are you based? You're welcome to try your kids in my 997 C4S if you're in London or Norfolk. (it's also for sale )

I have three girls who love my 997! They are more interested in being in a cool car than legroom.

There're plenty of 997 C4S Porsches in the alps with ski racks on. They look very cool IMHO. Try driving on snow in a M3!

[Frazpas]

Hi i think i can help you as i had an Audi A5 (3 litre diesel) for 3 years and now a 997S series 2. We are quite short as a family and can fit in the 997 OK but the kids hate it for more than 10 mile journeys- they don't want to sit in the back- it has a poor view forwards (kids first comment was unprintable), as well as being noisy and a bit cramped. They always want me to take one of the other more comfortable family cars. The Audi, however was fine. It was a little boring to drive, but fast and safe and i think, good looking. It also had much better "toys" (keyless entry, parking sensors all round for example). If i am taking the family i would chose the Audi. If its me and the wife, the 997. For trips to town to the cinema, 10 miles the 997 is fine. I would not dream of trying to take the family skiing with the 997 on a cross continental trip, but they would moan too much.
If i could find an Audi with the V6 supercharged engine which i think was first on teh cabriolet version that would be my choice in your circumstances- the fuel consumption may not matter to you financially, but it is a bore to have to fill up every 200 miles on a journey, or in the case of the M5 i think it may be less, more like 180 miles from what i researched before i changed my car last. The A5 had a range of 600 miles on a run which was really appreciated if you are travelling in an area with few filling stations etc. The A5 had a good boot that could take a family load of luggage, so if you can keep your 2 seater for fun then I would choose the Audi for 4 seater capability, good discrete looks and 4 wheel drive security.
The Audi has a very understeer biased handling, and remote steering feel, but on longer journeys is much more comfortable and quiet- you can enjoy the music. If you can find the twin clutch semi auto that would be a bonus; Audi have an alternative auto that is quite poor, so make sure you get the one which has the better auto- i think it is "S-tronic". You said that you were a snug fit in the S5- adults in the rear of 997 are in my view for short journeys or emergencies only.

If you can arrange a proper test drive do it with the family in each and see what they say.