Spent a very long time mulling a Boxster...
Discussion
Hi,
First post so please be gentle with me. I've been hankering for a 986 for a long time and have been lurking on this forum and others for a while now doing background research. I'm looking at two seater convertibles and roadsters for weekend motorway runs from london down to the south coast. The boxster has been high on the shortlist but I have a few questions following the research I've been doing:
1)Can you give me a ballpark figure of how much it would cost to warranty (per annum) a 99/00 vintage model with FSH and and 60-100k miles on the clock? Very ballpark would do!
2) what kind of residual scrap value do post-IMS disasters have?
3) Are there any preventative measures that one can have installed to prevent IMS failures? I've read about a manufacturer in the US who makes ceramic bearings for the IMS. Do any of you have these installed? How much would they cost (approx) to fit?
4) If any of you were in my situation where you were considering two seater cabs/roadsters and went for a boxster over a Z4 or S2000, Spider (etc), why did you end up choosing the porsche when the former don't have similar negatively asymmetric reliability risks?
Many thanks in advance for any replies - I sincerely appreciate your guidance.
DT
First post so please be gentle with me. I've been hankering for a 986 for a long time and have been lurking on this forum and others for a while now doing background research. I'm looking at two seater convertibles and roadsters for weekend motorway runs from london down to the south coast. The boxster has been high on the shortlist but I have a few questions following the research I've been doing:
1)Can you give me a ballpark figure of how much it would cost to warranty (per annum) a 99/00 vintage model with FSH and and 60-100k miles on the clock? Very ballpark would do!
2) what kind of residual scrap value do post-IMS disasters have?
3) Are there any preventative measures that one can have installed to prevent IMS failures? I've read about a manufacturer in the US who makes ceramic bearings for the IMS. Do any of you have these installed? How much would they cost (approx) to fit?
4) If any of you were in my situation where you were considering two seater cabs/roadsters and went for a boxster over a Z4 or S2000, Spider (etc), why did you end up choosing the porsche when the former don't have similar negatively asymmetric reliability risks?
Many thanks in advance for any replies - I sincerely appreciate your guidance.
DT
Hi DT welcome along.
That's all I have to say really though, sorry.
I'm not to interested or clued up on boxters/996s due to their problems I wouldn't own one.
On the other hand though, a non-petrolhead mate of mine has owned a 2.5 then a 3.2S over the last 6 years and has had no major problems, despite minimal maintenance. Christ, he barely ever even washes them. So you can be lucky and have no problems.
I knew if I bought one though, all the things that could go wrong would. I have that sort of luck with cars.
Anyway, some more knowledgable people will be along soon I'm sure.
That's all I have to say really though, sorry.
I'm not to interested or clued up on boxters/996s due to their problems I wouldn't own one.
On the other hand though, a non-petrolhead mate of mine has owned a 2.5 then a 3.2S over the last 6 years and has had no major problems, despite minimal maintenance. Christ, he barely ever even washes them. So you can be lucky and have no problems.
I knew if I bought one though, all the things that could go wrong would. I have that sort of luck with cars.
Anyway, some more knowledgable people will be along soon I'm sure.
Dynamic Turtle said:
Hi,
First post so please be gentle with me. I've been hankering for a 986 for a long time and have been lurking on this forum and others for a while now doing background research. I'm looking at two seater convertibles and roadsters for weekend motorway runs from london down to the south coast. The boxster has been high on the shortlist but I have a few questions following the research I've been doing:
1)Can you give me a ballpark figure of how much it would cost to warranty (per annum) a 99/00 vintage model with FSH and and 60-100k miles on the clock? Very ballpark would do!
2) what kind of residual scrap value do post-IMS disasters have?
3) Are there any preventative measures that one can have installed to prevent IMS failures? I've read about a manufacturer in the US who makes ceramic bearings for the IMS. Do any of you have these installed? How much would they cost (approx) to fit?
4) If any of you were in my situation where you were considering two seater cabs/roadsters and went for a boxster over a Z4 or S2000, Spider (etc), why did you end up choosing the porsche when the former don't have similar negatively asymmetric reliability risks?
Many thanks in advance for any replies - I sincerely appreciate your guidance.
DT
Hi, First post so please be gentle with me. I've been hankering for a 986 for a long time and have been lurking on this forum and others for a while now doing background research. I'm looking at two seater convertibles and roadsters for weekend motorway runs from london down to the south coast. The boxster has been high on the shortlist but I have a few questions following the research I've been doing:
1)Can you give me a ballpark figure of how much it would cost to warranty (per annum) a 99/00 vintage model with FSH and and 60-100k miles on the clock? Very ballpark would do!
2) what kind of residual scrap value do post-IMS disasters have?
3) Are there any preventative measures that one can have installed to prevent IMS failures? I've read about a manufacturer in the US who makes ceramic bearings for the IMS. Do any of you have these installed? How much would they cost (approx) to fit?
4) If any of you were in my situation where you were considering two seater cabs/roadsters and went for a boxster over a Z4 or S2000, Spider (etc), why did you end up choosing the porsche when the former don't have similar negatively asymmetric reliability risks?
Many thanks in advance for any replies - I sincerely appreciate your guidance.
DT
I feel after owning 3 Boxsters and now a 996 C4S I can offer you a bit of advice.
Buy the best condition you can find. Dont get too hung up on spec at this end of the market.
1) Warranties, unfortunately unless your car is young enough to have Porsche Warranty then my advice is dont bother. Aftermarket warranties often cost as much as the Porsche one but offer no protection really. I would never have any confidence in them paying out for anything major and at the end of the day thats the only reason you want a warranty. Some even have limits of say £5000 which in the case of engine failure is not enough. Figure wise an aftermarket warranty would prob cost between £600-1000 depending what options you go for but like I have said they are really not worth it. If you really need some back up look at Hartech Maintenance Plan. That is not cheap either but they will at least look after you and not give you f**k all like warranty companies. That will cover all labour costs for repairs which often is the biggest part of your bills. It doesn't cover cost of parts however.
2) Not sure of that you will have to see what others suggest!
3) Speak to Hartech
4) I did initially buy a 3.0 Z4 many years ago over the Boxster because it was the newer more modern car. The BMW was a good car it just wasn't a Porsche and the sound and experience of driving it just wasn't as good so I eventually sold that and bought my first Boxster. I test drove a S2000 which is ok but you have to drive it high on the revs all the time for the enjoyment and I thought that would become tiresome. I also was not sold on the knightrider/ Astra GTE 16V speedo!!
In conclusion if you want the best car my advice is buy a well looked after Boxster. If you want total piece of mind and reliability buy the Honda. If you want something in the middle buy the 3.0 Z4. If you dont buy the Porsche though you may always regret not doing, life is too short!!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I believe at least some of the Peter Morgan inspectors do use a boroscope, but you are quite right - there's no way to assess the state of the IMS bearing without removing it - and on some variants of the M96 engine you can't even do that without splitting the block.An excellent car I couldn't reccomend enough.
I've had two Boxsters, a '99 2.5 with over 140k on the clock when I sold it and a '03 2.7 which had 90k by the time I sold it.
They were both faultless, besides servicing they both cost me almost nothing to maintain. The '99 needed a roof switch which from porsche was less than or around £30 IIRC. Often parts from porsche are not as bad as you would think.
I still miss my '03 boxster despite having a 996tt, it was a pleasure to drive and easy on the pocket too.
Buy the best you can afford if you can stretch to a facelift 986 then even better - clear lights, glove box and nicer rear bumper.
Don't feel like you need an 'S' either the later 2.7 is a lovely revvy engine which imo sounds much nicer than the S model too.
Dont be put off by all the IMS doom mongers!! like I said my first try of the porsche marque was why I've bought another two porsches since
I've had two Boxsters, a '99 2.5 with over 140k on the clock when I sold it and a '03 2.7 which had 90k by the time I sold it.
They were both faultless, besides servicing they both cost me almost nothing to maintain. The '99 needed a roof switch which from porsche was less than or around £30 IIRC. Often parts from porsche are not as bad as you would think.
I still miss my '03 boxster despite having a 996tt, it was a pleasure to drive and easy on the pocket too.
Buy the best you can afford if you can stretch to a facelift 986 then even better - clear lights, glove box and nicer rear bumper.
Don't feel like you need an 'S' either the later 2.7 is a lovely revvy engine which imo sounds much nicer than the S model too.
Dont be put off by all the IMS doom mongers!! like I said my first try of the porsche marque was why I've bought another two porsches since
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Quite right I remember seeing my first boxster & it really turned heads, the first ones were really well specced & this one was silver with a boxster red interior-we were amazed!
A nice un abused example in silver with the red interior would be a very nice thing, amber indicators, 2.5 engine & all.
Firstly, thanks for all your sage advice. You've been very welcoming.
With regards to the IMS issue (and I'm sure you're all bored of hearing about it), it sounds like the potentially unnecessary and expensive ceramic bearing is probably the best bet. I think it would be a more intelligent solution than a similarly expensive warranty (if available at all) that might not pay out. I could only really consider a boxster once this expense has been factored into the running costs. Buying a replacement engine (£9k?) is a non-starter financially and I want my ownership experience to be positive, stress-free affair. I would also imagine that having a ceramic bearing fitted might also help with the residuals somewhat.
Then again, once that extra £2k has been factored in, the Boxster starts to look like less of a bargain compared to the Z4s and S2000s of this world. Particularly when the bearing only solves one of three potentially catastrophic scenarios (RMS and cylinder sleeve issues). I have to say that the alternatives aren't my favourites - I'd much prefer a Boxster. But I'm also not made of money and want the decision to be made intelligently. I'll take a look at the Hartech plan, but I get the impression that even the best mechanics are going to struggle to detect IMS issues. I guess I'd still be liable for hundreds (or thousands) in additional parts & labour costs if they detect a problem before it mangles the engine?
Ultimately, I am aware of the irony in trying to be penny wise with a sports car. But the potential failures we're describing here fall well outside normal cost boundaries and is pushing me away (reluctantly) from my favourite manufacturer.
DT
With regards to the IMS issue (and I'm sure you're all bored of hearing about it), it sounds like the potentially unnecessary and expensive ceramic bearing is probably the best bet. I think it would be a more intelligent solution than a similarly expensive warranty (if available at all) that might not pay out. I could only really consider a boxster once this expense has been factored into the running costs. Buying a replacement engine (£9k?) is a non-starter financially and I want my ownership experience to be positive, stress-free affair. I would also imagine that having a ceramic bearing fitted might also help with the residuals somewhat.
Then again, once that extra £2k has been factored in, the Boxster starts to look like less of a bargain compared to the Z4s and S2000s of this world. Particularly when the bearing only solves one of three potentially catastrophic scenarios (RMS and cylinder sleeve issues). I have to say that the alternatives aren't my favourites - I'd much prefer a Boxster. But I'm also not made of money and want the decision to be made intelligently. I'll take a look at the Hartech plan, but I get the impression that even the best mechanics are going to struggle to detect IMS issues. I guess I'd still be liable for hundreds (or thousands) in additional parts & labour costs if they detect a problem before it mangles the engine?
Ultimately, I am aware of the irony in trying to be penny wise with a sports car. But the potential failures we're describing here fall well outside normal cost boundaries and is pushing me away (reluctantly) from my favourite manufacturer.
DT
If the IMS did fail on a boxster no one in their right mind would spend 9k on a rebuild?
say if the worst did happen I'd bung a second hand engine in it complete and either carry on or sell it.
I reckon you'd get a 2.5/2.7 boxster engine for less than £2500 which is 2 years warrenty? or the cost of the ceramic bearing, Just another perspective?
say if the worst did happen I'd bung a second hand engine in it complete and either carry on or sell it.
I reckon you'd get a 2.5/2.7 boxster engine for less than £2500 which is 2 years warrenty? or the cost of the ceramic bearing, Just another perspective?
For a Boxster of 99/00 vintage with between 60 & 100k i guess you're looking at spending about 7k? in which case spending 2k on a bearing as part of preventative maintenance doesn't add up financially to me. most IMS bearings fail by 30k if they're going to fail and with a reconditioned engine available for not much more than doing the bearing i'd rather put the 2k in the bank
Great cars, love mine
Great cars, love mine
It sounds like you are talking yourself out of the best car for the sake of a very slim chance something may go wrong and possibly cost you about 5k. In your entire life 5k is a small price to pay for enjoyment and it really is only a slight risk. Sometimes its worth a slight risk to benefit, if you already think the Boxster is the best car I guarantee once you have got bored with your Z4 or S2000 you will still want the Boxster. As you have seen there are not many negative comments on here from either owners or previous owners.
Have a look at www.Boxa.net for more detailed advice and thoughts!!
Have a look at www.Boxa.net for more detailed advice and thoughts!!
I'm not trying to talk myself out of a boxster, but I believe these are serious considerations that a buyer in my position has to consider, given that there are solid (if not quite as thrilling) alternatives available. As for the new engine maths - OK I'm way out there. But I'm still potentially looking at around £5k fitted for a new (old!) block, that could POP again a hundred miles later.
On the contrary in fact, having considered the all the potential problems, I'm still trying to talk myself IN to Boxster ownership!
On the contrary in fact, having considered the all the potential problems, I'm still trying to talk myself IN to Boxster ownership!
For a car worth around £6k, don't waste any money on mechanical "insurance" (warranty schemes or expensive preventative upgrades). You are just paying a big premium to possibly remove the impact of a relatively small probability risk.
These cars are cheap because of the potential engine problems (actual incidence of major issues is relatively low). Buying one is like buying a reverse lottery ticket. You have a small chance of losing and a high chance of winning. In my experience, known engine issues aside, water cooled Porsche are reliable and well made - better than BMW and probably not far short of Honda. Buy carefully and have fun at low cost and if it blows up, at least you have driven the car you wanted up to then.
If you can stretch to a 2.9 Boxster, then you have all bases covered. I expect this is well outside your budget, but if you have access to a reasonable cost loan, the annual interest cost could be less than the expense of warranties, upgrades, extra servicing, etc. It will also be a lower mileage car, so you will get many more years of low cost running. Boxster prices are getting so low that repair costs considerations outweigh capital costs.
These cars are cheap because of the potential engine problems (actual incidence of major issues is relatively low). Buying one is like buying a reverse lottery ticket. You have a small chance of losing and a high chance of winning. In my experience, known engine issues aside, water cooled Porsche are reliable and well made - better than BMW and probably not far short of Honda. Buy carefully and have fun at low cost and if it blows up, at least you have driven the car you wanted up to then.
If you can stretch to a 2.9 Boxster, then you have all bases covered. I expect this is well outside your budget, but if you have access to a reasonable cost loan, the annual interest cost could be less than the expense of warranties, upgrades, extra servicing, etc. It will also be a lower mileage car, so you will get many more years of low cost running. Boxster prices are getting so low that repair costs considerations outweigh capital costs.
I agree. A cheap Boxster can prove very expensive even without engine issues. Whereas spending a little more will buy a much more modern / recent car that may costs much less to run and will be cheaper to insure (987 are quite cheaper than 986 for that).
The sweet spot is a 2006 car with the last IMS single larger bearing but pre-March 06 for the lower tax, band K.
Mod edit: No advertising please
The sweet spot is a 2006 car with the last IMS single larger bearing but pre-March 06 for the lower tax, band K.
Mod edit: No advertising please
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yep hold my hand up to that! despite being a mechanic I had no idea of the potential 'risk' of IMS failing on my 1st boxster, I knew of the much more common leaky RMS as with all porsches.Glad I didn't know really, ignorance in my case was bliss(ful ownership)
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I agree there is a depeciation "curve" for every car and high sales volumes are a factor here, but the engine issues are quite widely known (not in detail, just something vague about engines going bang and oil leaks). Normally the fact that they are still making them supports used values as the old ones don't look dated. I expect the trade avoids early ones, which won't help. Most people get advice before buying a Porsche - would you omit to mention the risks to a friend who was looking to buy? I think if the engines were rock solid, early Boxsters prices would reflect the superiority of the car in virtually every other respect and be priced above the alternatives.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff