993 supercharger conversions...
Discussion
This caught my eye, and has continued to do so 
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3521910.htm
Anyone know much about the Ninemeister upgrades? (Their website's misbehaving at the moment.) Presume new ECU (or just tuning of old one?); injectors? Presume relatively low power SC won't need cooling.
Any downsides apart from worse MPG (although that will presumably depend on the style of SC chosen) and arguably increased engine complexity?
Would you?
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3521910.htm
Anyone know much about the Ninemeister upgrades? (Their website's misbehaving at the moment.) Presume new ECU (or just tuning of old one?); injectors? Presume relatively low power SC won't need cooling.
Any downsides apart from worse MPG (although that will presumably depend on the style of SC chosen) and arguably increased engine complexity?
Would you?
I had one on a 993 4s. It worked OK except for an annoying misfire which I'm sure could have been sorted. It was caused by the additional 7th injector which comes with the kit I think.
I didn't think the supercharged character suited the car, though others really like it.
We removed it at about 70,000 miles and the engine looked in good shape. I sold it for £2,5k and could have got more as the phone as ringing off the hook.
If you fancy it have go. If you don't like it you'll get you money back at worst by taking it off and selling it.
I didn't think the supercharged character suited the car, though others really like it.
We removed it at about 70,000 miles and the engine looked in good shape. I sold it for £2,5k and could have got more as the phone as ringing off the hook.
If you fancy it have go. If you don't like it you'll get you money back at worst by taking it off and selling it.
Can you elaborate Jackal?
I would agree it's no a sprint car and has a torquey engine to begin with but if you're not a top speed runner and like acceleration the most, is it such a bad idea?
I've heard people say don't do it, turbo it and that is the well trodden path.
Interested to know why you think it doesn't suit the car though.
I would agree it's no a sprint car and has a torquey engine to begin with but if you're not a top speed runner and like acceleration the most, is it such a bad idea?
I've heard people say don't do it, turbo it and that is the well trodden path.
Interested to know why you think it doesn't suit the car though.
OlberJ said:
Can you elaborate Jackal?
I would agree it's no a sprint car and has a torquey engine to begin with but if you're not a top speed runner and like acceleration the most, is it such a bad idea?
I've heard people say don't do it, turbo it and that is the well trodden path.
Interested to know why you think it doesn't suit the car though.
For me its all about input-output, a pure exacting relationship that gives you a sense of millimetric control.I would agree it's no a sprint car and has a torquey engine to begin with but if you're not a top speed runner and like acceleration the most, is it such a bad idea?
I've heard people say don't do it, turbo it and that is the well trodden path.
Interested to know why you think it doesn't suit the car though.
The 993c2 lump is a glorious NA lump with a fine throttle response .. it shouldnt be messed with IMO, just mapped to make the fuelling more razor-like. The cars endless joy comes from its purity.
If fat slugs of jaw dropping acceleration are you thing then there are far better cars out there as well and also ones with much greater tuning potential. Even a 993tt isnt that fast and that has over 400bhp.
The throttle response is blunted to an extent with an SC and the engine seems less free revving. This had the odd effect of making the car feel heavier.
There is tons on torque very low down, but this doesn't seem to change much as the revs rise, which is totally different to the 993 N/A engine. It also felt nothing like the claimed 360 BHP which it had made on the 9M dyno
In character it felt not unlike my Audi with a 3.0l TDI.
There is tons on torque very low down, but this doesn't seem to change much as the revs rise, which is totally different to the 993 N/A engine. It also felt nothing like the claimed 360 BHP which it had made on the 9M dyno
In character it felt not unlike my Audi with a 3.0l TDI.
Do you find the SC takes much away from the throttle response?
Can't say i've noticed much difference on non Pork SC'd cars.
I'm all for NA throttle response, which is why i much prefer SC's to Turbos personally. You lose top end but that mid range is just too addictive.
Would you be an advocate of ITB's then i take it?
Can't say i've noticed much difference on non Pork SC'd cars.
I'm all for NA throttle response, which is why i much prefer SC's to Turbos personally. You lose top end but that mid range is just too addictive.
Would you be an advocate of ITB's then i take it?
I bought James S's supercharger from him and had 9M fit it to the 993 engine that's in my SC and then had it remapped by Wayne Schofield. For me, it didn't change the engine's characteristics but pronounced them moreso. ie the engine before it was supercharged was always quite torquey and had a significant push at 4500 rpm and now, after the supercharger has been bolted on, there is more torque lower down and the push at 4500 revs is greater.
Throttle response is exactly the same as before (it revs far more freely than my brother's stock 3.2 as it has a lightweight flywheel fitted).
MPG isn't too bad either. A spirited 2,000 mile jaunt across Europe returned 22 mpg. Cruising on the motorway gets me 28mpg if keeping to legal speeds. The car only weighs 1200kg by the way.
Edited to add that it uses a piggy back ECU and doesn't require any additional cooling as it's a low pressure system (something like 4.5psi)
Throttle response is exactly the same as before (it revs far more freely than my brother's stock 3.2 as it has a lightweight flywheel fitted).
MPG isn't too bad either. A spirited 2,000 mile jaunt across Europe returned 22 mpg. Cruising on the motorway gets me 28mpg if keeping to legal speeds. The car only weighs 1200kg by the way.
Edited to add that it uses a piggy back ECU and doesn't require any additional cooling as it's a low pressure system (something like 4.5psi)
Edited by 993SC on Friday 6th January 14:12
I don't think you can say its all down to mapping, most people agree they change the character signifiicantly. If you look at what it does to the way the torque comes in, Vs NA 993 its hard to see how it wouldn;t alter the way the car feels.
However you may prefer it, its a matter of taste as much as anything else. If you know your 911s you won't need to drive very far to decide whether you like or don't like the character. Certainly worth a look
993SC loves his, I didn't like mine.
However you may prefer it, its a matter of taste as much as anything else. If you know your 911s you won't need to drive very far to decide whether you like or don't like the character. Certainly worth a look
993SC loves his, I didn't like mine.
olber when you gonna take the plunge?! 
i'd definitely echo what the jackal is saying, in fact for throttle response i think even the 993 is a bit on the lazy side as standard.
i know you want PMO's
you know you want PMO's
just go ahead & do it man-we want to see the build thread!
in all seriousness, if you are interested i know where there is a set for sale
i thought you'd be popping down for a look at the SC before she goes as well-it'll be in the garage until the end of the month
i'd definitely echo what the jackal is saying, in fact for throttle response i think even the 993 is a bit on the lazy side as standard.i know you want PMO's
you know you want PMO's
just go ahead & do it man-we want to see the build thread!
in all seriousness, if you are interested i know where there is a set for sale
i thought you'd be popping down for a look at the SC before she goes as well-it'll be in the garage until the end of the month
james S said:
The throttle response is blunted to an extent with an SC and the engine seems less free revving. This had the odd effect of making the car feel heavier.
Interesting that, and it doesn't suprise me. Lots of unrelated things change the perceived weight of a car. I guess it must be like if you slow the rack or decrese the tyre pressures a little, everything feels a bit more stodgy and heavier.cragswinter said:
olber when you gonna take the plunge?! i'd definitely echo what the jackal is saying, in fact for throttle response i think even the 993 is a bit on the lazy side as standard.
i know you want PMO's
you know you want PMO's
just go ahead & do it man-we want to see the build thread!
in all seriousness, if you are interested i know where there is a set for sale
i thought you'd be popping down for a look at the SC before she goes as well-it'll be in the garage until the end of the month
Soon as i can mate. Certainly before Gumbaw, by hook or by crook. i'd definitely echo what the jackal is saying, in fact for throttle response i think even the 993 is a bit on the lazy side as standard.i know you want PMO's
you know you want PMO's
just go ahead & do it man-we want to see the build thread!
in all seriousness, if you are interested i know where there is a set for sale
i thought you'd be popping down for a look at the SC before she goes as well-it'll be in the garage until the end of the month
I take it you've sold the SC on then? What's next up?
On topic, is everyone referring to the TPC kit i take it? Has anyone ever used the other style of Supercharger?
OlberJ said:
So the bad parts are probably down to set up and mapping?
993SC, do you have a build thread?
I don't have a build thread, sorry, but the installation was quite simple in that it was literally bolt on with no modifications to the internals. 993SC, do you have a build thread?
I truly believe that the characteristics of the engine have not been dulled in any way. The way I understand it is because the supercharger generates low boost this merely optimises the cylinder filling and therefore enhances the existing set up as opposed to overly modifying it.
From what i know of the other set up, the injectors were resized and the ECU reworked to suit, possibly more changes, but this made a big difference to how the car behaved.
993 SC, might be worth having a word with George Morrison and he'll be able to tell you exactly what he did.
You see bolt on Superchargers having the effect above, not being quite right, but fundamentally they should be a very good addition when tweaked.
993 SC, might be worth having a word with George Morrison and he'll be able to tell you exactly what he did.
You see bolt on Superchargers having the effect above, not being quite right, but fundamentally they should be a very good addition when tweaked.
OlberJ said:
I take it you've sold the SC on then? What's next up?
I don't wanna say! Yeah she's sold though, new owner will pick up when he's next in the uk at the end of the month, if you want a look over at what can be acheived just give me a shout-promised I wouldn't drive it though unfortunatlyGassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff