Is there a lack of quality second hand Porsche?
Discussion
OK so headline prices does make it seem like there are some bargins to be had on the second hand market, but when you look harder is there a lack of real quality?
There are alot of cars which have been on the market for a considerable time (it's a shame they're allowed to be moved back to the top of the classifieds) which are either expensive or cheap for a reason.
It does seem like there is a shortage of quality Porsche.
This could be time of the year or the fact people are holding onto there cars unless they really need to sell.
Thoughts?
There are alot of cars which have been on the market for a considerable time (it's a shame they're allowed to be moved back to the top of the classifieds) which are either expensive or cheap for a reason.
It does seem like there is a shortage of quality Porsche.
This could be time of the year or the fact people are holding onto there cars unless they really need to sell.
Thoughts?
g7jhp said:
OK so headline prices does make it seem like there are some bargins to be had on the second hand market, but when you look harder is there a lack of real quality?
There are alot of cars which have been on the market for a considerable time (it's a shame they're allowed to be moved back to the top of the classifieds) which are either expensive or cheap for a reason.
It does seem like there is a shortage of quality Porsche.
This could be time of the year or the fact people are holding onto there cars unless they really need to sell.
Thoughts?
I suppose ive been browsing classifieds for decades now. Pistonheads for at least 11 years. If you are talking about the more special so called 'drivers cars' then what I have found is that certain cars slowly creep up to this sort of precipice and then they just completely fall off the radar altogether and you're just stuffed if you want to buy a half decent one.There are alot of cars which have been on the market for a considerable time (it's a shame they're allowed to be moved back to the top of the classifieds) which are either expensive or cheap for a reason.
It does seem like there is a shortage of quality Porsche.
This could be time of the year or the fact people are holding onto there cars unless they really need to sell.
Thoughts?
I remember this happening well with 3.6 964 turbos. One moment you could go out and have your maritime blue, your speed yellows ... all wonderful examples. The next minute there aren't any and now a few years further on you are talking 70-80k minimum. The same has happened quite recently with NB 993 coupes and manual 964 c2's.
The thing is people don't anticipate it. They think that the classifieds is going to be the same way forever. You can see it now with 996 GT3's. The selection has got a lot worse in the last year and I think very soon this is a good example of a car that will totally drop off the radar. If you want one, maybe the next 1-2 years is the last decent time to get one for sensible money. The best mk1 elises are doing it right now. You just can't get a decent low mileage cherished one and if you want a 111s or a S135 or S160 special edition you're even more screwed. If they do come up they are almost 20k, close to what they were new. Look at F355's. Not so long ago there was a boat load of 15-25k mile cars. Now, not so many at all and the 30k+ mile examples are selling for the same price as the 20k miles ones were 18 months ago. If you see a sub 20k Berlinetta in good nick then grab it whilst you still can !
Edited by jackal on Sunday 8th January 01:07
What is a reasonable price or a quality Porsche? Seller and buyer have a different opinion on this one.
Im struggling to find a well cared for 996tt at what i consider and am informed is a reasonable price - I think alot of the 996s currently on the market at what appears to me to reasonable priced are there for a reason and have been on the market for many months
The market is largely stagnant, and with a high % of the older 996tts cars selling privately, the actual selling price is often unknown. The market is definitely in favour of the buyer at present
Ive been tracking prices closely since April last year (around 30 cars)- many of the private sellers who originally listed at around the 28k mark close between 21.5 and 23K for what appears to be a reasonable car with few jobs pending, which is to be expected (2002 / less than 50k) - ebay auctions, I have not seen a auction go above 22k for ages and when i get the plate of the car run it thru we buy any car or similar to get a vague idea of the trade price - most of which are around 18k
I have had 4 inspected by reputable inspectors this year - 3 they advised against even between 21.5 and 23K - the inspectors are telling me that my expectations for spec condition are right, however working overseas im not always in a position to move as fast as i would hope - and have to inspect before i get a chance to view _ as a result ive had some over priced crap inspected and have missed some good ones, so for me a also a problem of wrong time wrong place
The well known indy dealers are now offering some very competitive cars - starting to think that going down the private sale route of inspections was my mistake - the quality is there, just the majority of private sellers have not accepted the laws of supply and demand yet
As for 996tts going up in value, im not banking on that for a long while yet
Im struggling to find a well cared for 996tt at what i consider and am informed is a reasonable price - I think alot of the 996s currently on the market at what appears to me to reasonable priced are there for a reason and have been on the market for many months
The market is largely stagnant, and with a high % of the older 996tts cars selling privately, the actual selling price is often unknown. The market is definitely in favour of the buyer at present
Ive been tracking prices closely since April last year (around 30 cars)- many of the private sellers who originally listed at around the 28k mark close between 21.5 and 23K for what appears to be a reasonable car with few jobs pending, which is to be expected (2002 / less than 50k) - ebay auctions, I have not seen a auction go above 22k for ages and when i get the plate of the car run it thru we buy any car or similar to get a vague idea of the trade price - most of which are around 18k
I have had 4 inspected by reputable inspectors this year - 3 they advised against even between 21.5 and 23K - the inspectors are telling me that my expectations for spec condition are right, however working overseas im not always in a position to move as fast as i would hope - and have to inspect before i get a chance to view _ as a result ive had some over priced crap inspected and have missed some good ones, so for me a also a problem of wrong time wrong place
The well known indy dealers are now offering some very competitive cars - starting to think that going down the private sale route of inspections was my mistake - the quality is there, just the majority of private sellers have not accepted the laws of supply and demand yet
As for 996tts going up in value, im not banking on that for a long while yet
I think it's more a case of the right car at the right price, it'll always sell.
Take my last two Porsches, if I'd of believed the armchair experts in here I'd have been asking thousands of pounds less for each of them than what I did, but what happened? One didn't make it to market (sold to a fellow ph'er) & the other one went after 18 hrs of the advert going live.
Then there's the SOR factor, certain "specialists" promising rediculous prices, seemingly just so they can have a garage full of exotica for a few years, I still can't get my head around why people fall for it?
I think more & more are selling without the adverts personally, if I wanted a specific model I'd be starting wanted threads on all the usual sites.
Take my last two Porsches, if I'd of believed the armchair experts in here I'd have been asking thousands of pounds less for each of them than what I did, but what happened? One didn't make it to market (sold to a fellow ph'er) & the other one went after 18 hrs of the advert going live.
Then there's the SOR factor, certain "specialists" promising rediculous prices, seemingly just so they can have a garage full of exotica for a few years, I still can't get my head around why people fall for it?
I think more & more are selling without the adverts personally, if I wanted a specific model I'd be starting wanted threads on all the usual sites.
g7jhp said:
OK so headline prices does make it seem like there are some bargins to be had on the second hand market, but when you look harder is there a lack of real quality?
There are alot of cars which have been on the market for a considerable time (it's a shame they're allowed to be moved back to the top of the classifieds) which are either expensive or cheap for a reason.
It does seem like there is a shortage of quality Porsche.
This could be time of the year or the fact people are holding onto there cars unless they really need to sell.
Thoughts?
I could do with the cash right now but there's no way I would put my GT3 on the market at the moment. Reasons? The first being that it will be seen by all the naysayers as high mileage (less than 58000 on a 12 year old car!) and too many owners (7 or 8 before me) and because there's a few scratches on the bottom of the front PU it will be seen as having had an off on a trackday (it hasn't but it has been on some very iffy French country lanes)and will be too highly priced for all the folks on here who want to shag every thing but marry a virgin - you know what I mean. So I don't really see any point. I will maintain its full history - last four years with me with OPC and well known specialists between now and new - - and money no object attitude to caring for it and see where it gets me in a few years time.There are alot of cars which have been on the market for a considerable time (it's a shame they're allowed to be moved back to the top of the classifieds) which are either expensive or cheap for a reason.
It does seem like there is a shortage of quality Porsche.
This could be time of the year or the fact people are holding onto there cars unless they really need to sell.
Thoughts?
rlw said:
I could do with the cash right now but there's no way I would put my GT3 on the market at the moment. Reasons? The first being that it will be seen by all the naysayers as high mileage (less than 58000 on a 12 year old car!) and too many owners (7 or 8 before me) and because there's a few scratches on the bottom of the front PU it will be seen as having had an off on a trackday (it hasn't but it has been on some very iffy French country lanes)and will be too highly priced for all the folks on here who want to shag every thing but marry a virgin - you know what I mean. So I don't really see any point. I will maintain its full history - last four years with me with OPC and well known specialists between now and new - - and money no object attitude to caring for it and see where it gets me in a few years time.
You could simply translate this into - it won't sell at the price I wish to achieveuktrailmonster said:
You could simply translate this into - it won't sell at the price I wish to achieve
Agreed to a large extent but it also means I don't have to put up with some smart-arse coming round, getting it inspected and giving me a long list of "faults" which will halve the value, rather than reflect the fact that it is a secondhand and used car.All I'm getting at is that some (too many)people expect a used car to be, literally, perfect or as new and it usually isn't going to happen, hence I really cannot be bothered to even think about it in the current climate.
rlw said:
Agreed to a large extent but it also means I don't have to put up with some smart-arse coming round, getting it inspected and giving me a long list of "faults" which will halve the value, rather than reflect the fact that it is a secondhand and used car.
All I'm getting at is that some (too many)people expect a used car to be, literally, perfect or as new and it usually isn't going to happen, hence I really cannot be bothered to even think about it in the current climate.
It just sounds like you cant be arsed to sell your car? There have always been and will always be people who have unreasonable expectations. Porsche buyers are amongst the worst! You can side step these people if you want by selling to a trader but it will cost you.All I'm getting at is that some (too many)people expect a used car to be, literally, perfect or as new and it usually isn't going to happen, hence I really cannot be bothered to even think about it in the current climate.
I am also afraid that 'the current climate' will be sticking around for some time yet!
Price your car competitively, be honest in your advert and it will sell.
MTR
The problem is to many Private / dealers think there car is quality.
For me quality means a colour combo I want not forced to accept, a service history that shows more than routine servicing & a comfort feeling that I am buying from a dealer who knows what they are talking about or a private sale from someone who appreciates cars cost money to keep in top condition, then I would pay more for a car.
All the rest a risky for me & the price has to reflect that.
I agree all the good pre 2002 996's have a home & the rest are being sold due to a upcoming bill.
For me quality means a colour combo I want not forced to accept, a service history that shows more than routine servicing & a comfort feeling that I am buying from a dealer who knows what they are talking about or a private sale from someone who appreciates cars cost money to keep in top condition, then I would pay more for a car.
All the rest a risky for me & the price has to reflect that.
I agree all the good pre 2002 996's have a home & the rest are being sold due to a upcoming bill.
rlw said:
Agreed to a large extent but it also means I don't have to put up with some smart-arse coming round, getting it inspected and giving me a long list of "faults" which will halve the value, rather than reflect the fact that it is a secondhand and used car.
All I'm getting at is that some (too many)people expect a used car to be, literally, perfect or as new and it usually isn't going to happen, hence I really cannot be bothered to even think about it in the current climate.
Most buyers would probably get it inspected by the likes of Peter Morgan. If you've got nothing to hide this would simply confirm what a great car you have. On the other hand if there was a long list of faults reported in a professional inspection.......All I'm getting at is that some (too many)people expect a used car to be, literally, perfect or as new and it usually isn't going to happen, hence I really cannot be bothered to even think about it in the current climate.
Reading between the lines here it sounds like your car is not exactly perfect, but you consider it to be worth more than today's market would stand. Fair enough, but no need to be bitter toward potential buyers. They come in all shapes and sizes and always will.
POORCARDEALER said:
Look at any 996 TT for £20K ish.............Performance bargain of the century.....just dont expect perfection.
or expect the total expenditure on the car to be £20K ish. These can turn into £30K plus cars faster than you can say annual service and a set of tyres & brakes. Still great value, but not a £20K car really.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff