OPC Rev Range Nonsense etc

[ufo2]

One should never trust an official porsche centre. I don't understand why Porsche are so obsessed with rev ranges, any vehicle which has been redlined determined by rev range print outs a customer will not be able to renew warranty. Any car that's had an aftermarket Bluetooth kit fitted, windscreen wipers that were not purchased from an OPC, after market suspension, exhausts, wheel spacers, the list is endless warranty is voided! So how come Chris Harris's old meteor grey 997.1 GT3 which he purchased via Porsche Bristol without the extended warranty, then at a later date appeared back for sale @porsche Bristol which we all know was redlined caned within an inch of its life, aftermarket suspension,exhaust, different seats etc was able to pass OPC standards? (Personally I think he drove it how it's supposed to be driven)
What's the point in buying a porsche if every time you drive it you can't rev it high incase you over rev and void any warranty renewal issues later on.
Porsche West Byfleet still has a black 997.1 GT3 @ £60.995 which I viewed last August 2011 back then in the showroom it had wire mesh in the front grill (Warranty Void) carbon ceramic brakes heavily pitted and worn out, and the whole car needed respraying due to the heavy track work it was subjected to, stone chipping everywhere. Clearly been behind other cars on a race track. That car now has had the mesh taken out and standard red calliper brakes fitted also with the same price tag. Who ever buys that car needs to demand that brand new PCC brakes are refitted due to that it was originally speced on that car from factory. However that car is for sale at an OPC despite a warranty voided item! I wonder what the rev ranges are on that car? GT3s are amazing machines that need to be driven hard and yet customers are penalised for using their cars for that purpose. Shocking behaviour by OPCs. I bet the previous owner of that car got £15.000 less because of the worn pccbs even though they have now replaced them with standard red jobbies at a fraction of the cost.
Thank god i recently got rid of my 997 turbo which was nothing but trouble right from he word go.
Good riddance Porsche and their hopeless dealers.

[sportsandclassic]

Hi, if driven correctly you will not over rev the engine.

Mike

[911p]

Sounds like you've had a very bad experience!

If you have not misshifted into a lower gear (ie 5th to 2nd rather than 4th) and forced the car past its rev limiter (hence over revving the engine), there will be no range 2 and beyond revs recorded. OPC will buy a car with range 1 revs no problem.

[SFO]

you can always ask the OPC for a print out of the rev ranges before you decide .. you can also insist that you are there when they perform the checks.

hidden over rev fear dealt with!

[HoHoHo]

sportsandclassic said:

Hi, if driven correctly you will not over rev the engine.

Mike

Is being enthusiastic changing gear from say 2nd the 3rd once or twice and taking the car to the rev limiter considered an over rev, or is an over rev changing from 5th to 2nd accidentally clearly reving the engine at silly RPM and the engine going enough is enough?

[911p]

HoHoHo said:

Is being enthusiastic changing gear from say 2nd the 3rd once or twice and taking the car to the rev limiter considered an over rev, or is an over rev changing from 5th to 2nd accidentally clearly reving the engine at silly RPM and the engine going enough is enough?

I believe there are 6 rev ranges for 997's (only 2 for 996's).

997 Carrera
Range 1 | >7300 and <7500
Range 2 | >7500 and <7700
Range 3 | >7700 and <7900
Range 4 | >7900 and <8400
Range 5 | >8400 and <9500
Range 6 | 9500+

So if you hit the limiter you will only record a few range 1 over revs.

[graemel]

I see nothing wrong and no potential damage with clipping the rev limiter going up through the gears. The limiter is set at Porsche's predifined safe limit. Over reving caused by missed down shift, 5th to 2nd causing a mechanical over rev that the rev limiter cannot control is bad news. With air cooled stuff you buzzed the engine. Bent valves and a big bill to repair. Water cooled I don't know, surely the same ?.

[HoHoHo]

911p said:

I believe there are 6 rev ranges for 997's (only 2 for 996's).

997 Carrera
Range 1 | >7300 and <7500
Range 2 | >7500 and <7700
Range 3 | >7700 and <7900
Range 4 | >7900 and <8400
Range 5 | >8400 and <9500
Range 6 | 9500+

So if you hit the limiter you will only record a few range 1 over revs.

Thanks for that.

So a simple bounce off the limiter is a rev range 1 and not a problem as the engine won't allow anything higher, however in order to cause concern you have to be rather enthusiastic with your down shifts?

[ufo2]

I've never had any problems regarding over revs but my post was just a rant at porsche to be honest. Over the last 6 months I've read numerous threads about porsche and their miss-comings with customers and there cars. Just because porsche paint the bumpers to look nice in the showroom doesn't mean they have properly checked over the car. I found that out the hard way. My favourite saying that the dealers say is "there's nothing wrong wrong with the car that's how they drive" load of crap. My car went to 3 different dealers to diagnose a problem with handling all saying the above quote until I took it to Porsche Guildford who diagnosed it needed a new front differential, after driving it. so much for main dealer prep.
My car was riddled with Intermitant faults which were never fixed and now I see it's back for sale at an OPC. Still with faults I'm guessing. Oh dear oh dear.

[doneitnow]

ufo2 said:

I've never had any problems regarding over revs but my post was just a rant at porsche to be honest. Over the last 6 months I've read numerous threads about porsche and their miss-comings with customers and there cars. Just because porsche paint the bumpers to look nice in the showroom doesn't mean they have properly checked over the car. I found that out the hard way. My favourite saying that the dealers say is "there's nothing wrong wrong with the car that's how they drive" load of crap. My car went to 3 different dealers to diagnose a problem with handling all saying the above quote until I took it to Porsche Guildford who diagnosed it needed a new front differential, after driving it. so much for main dealer prep.
My car was riddled with Intermitant faults which were never fixed and now I see it's back for sale at an OPC. Still with faults I'm guessing. Oh dear oh dear.

I had a new merc with a factory fitted cat1 alarm that played up from day 1 that after endless returns to garage they could not fix, there answer was to disconnect and fit a bog standard one, I refused as was not what I had ordered and demanded a replacement vehicle, when it finally got swapped it was put up for sale with the original alarm still intact

[mrdemon]

Upto range 3 is ok, pdk cars in sport rev higher and might goin range 3.
Range 4 is a Engine check and a opc cannot sell a car in range 4.
Range 4 is questionable , but i thought if it was more than 6 months old you are fine for a warranty claim still.
Range 5 you have buzzed it bad.
Range 6 you have prob blown it up.

[ChipsAndCheese]

mrdemon said:

and a opc cannot sell a car in range 4

I don't think that is true. There was a thread on here a while back where a guy was buying an ex-demo from Porsche and it had been into RR4, but Porsche had done a full check on it and were putting the approved used warranty on it so he was happy.

Over-revs will only be an issue at warranty renewal time if the revs have occurred since the last warranty inspection was carried out. If it passed an inspection and warranty was approved, those earlier over-revs are not taken into consideration as it will have already been thoroughly inspected since they occurred.

[mm450exc]

ChipsAndCheese said:

mrdemon said:

and a opc cannot sell a car in range 4

I don't think that is true. There was a thread on here a while back where a guy was buying an ex-demo from Porsche and it had been into RR4, but Porsche had done a full check on it and were putting the approved used warranty on it so he was happy.

Over-revs will only be an issue at warranty renewal time if the revs have occurred since the last warranty inspection was carried out. If it passed an inspection and warranty was approved, those earlier over-revs are not taken into consideration as it will have already been thoroughly inspected since they occurred.

+1 This is not correct.

[c4srmsims]

911p said:

I believe there are 6 rev ranges for 997's (only 2 for 996's).

997 Carrera
Range 1 | >7300 and <7500
Range 2 | >7500 and <7700
Range 3 | >7700 and <7900
Range 4 | >7900 and <8400
Range 5 | >8400 and <9500
Range 6 | 9500+

So if you hit the limiter you will only record a few range 1 over revs.

Not true - you can hit RR 2 hitting the limiter on an up shift. You may even be able to hit 3.

RR 4's found at warranty renewal mean investigation at customers cost prior to acceptance. Maybe RR 3 as well?

Edited by c4srmsims on Thursday 26th January 11:34

[mrdemon]

seems it's not clear to any one then lol.

I thought RR4 was the engine check and RR3 was fine and could be hit in a PDK car with sports mode on and will not effect waranty.

My OPC told me to do a check on a RR4 car is a strip down of the engine which is 5k, and they also said they now off load RR4 cars to auction or to the trade and was not allowed to sell them.

Would be intrested to see what Henery thought about this , and what he refuses to take in regarding Rev ranges.

[993AL]

c4srmsims said:

911p said:

I believe there are 6 rev ranges for 997's (only 2 for 996's).

997 Carrera
Range 1 | >7300 and <7500
Range 2 | >7500 and <7700
Range 3 | >7700 and <7900
Range 4 | >7900 and <8400
Range 5 | >8400 and <9500
Range 6 | 9500+

So if you hit the limiter you will only record a few range 1 over revs.

Not true - you can hit RR 2 hitting the limiter on an up shift. You may even be able to hit 3.

RR 4's found at warranty renewal mean investigation at customers cost prior to acceptance. Maybe RR 3 as well?

Edited by c4srmsims on Thursday 26th January 11:34

My OPC advised that up to and including RR3 is OK for warranty renewal.

[ChipsAndCheese]

mrdemon said:

seems it's not clear to any one then lol.

I thought RR4 was the engine check and RR3 was fine and could be hit in a PDK car with sports mode on and will not effect waranty.

My OPC told me to do a check on a RR4 car is a strip down of the engine which is 5k, and they also said they now off load RR4 cars to auction or to the trade and was not allowed to sell them.

Would be intrested to see what Henery thought about this , and what he refuses to take in regarding Rev ranges.

No, RR4 is a full leakage and compression test (~4 hours expensive labour from your friendly OPC). RR5 and above are strip downs I believe.

RR1-3 can be hit by slamming into the rev limiter, whereas 4 is likely to be a very brief trip over the limit from a missed shift. Apparently, RR4 checks are more of a precaution than likely engine damage; the Cayman engine is supposedly mechanically safe up to ~8200 rpm if the Planet 9 info is correct.

http://www.planet-9.com/faq.php?faq=techdata#faq_o...

Edited by ChipsAndCheese on Thursday 26th January 12:25

[ChipsAndCheese]

mrdemon said:

Would be intrested to see what Henery thought about this , and what he refuses to take in regarding Rev ranges.

I would imagine that Henry treats every car on an individual basis. It would be crazy IMO to have a fixed rule regarding overrevs, and I think it unlikely he would turn down a cracking car that is proven to be mechanically sound upon inspection because of a fixed policy of 'nothing exceeding rev range X'.

Reading some of the threads on Planet 9, the maths make interesting reading. Take this example from one thread:

Thread on Planet9 said:

So if range 4 is 7900 - 8400rpm and then the engine fired 86 times in that range, that works out to:

86 / 3 (ignition cycles per revolution) = 28.7 engine revolutions

Assuming the average speed of the engine in that range was ~8000rpm, then:

8000rpm = 133.3 revolutions per second
Time spent in range 4 = 28.7 / 133.3 seconds = ~200ms

Which doesn't seem to be particularly concerning, even if it was indeed a missed downshift

The numbers sound scary at first until you work out how little time that equates to over the limit.

Edited by ChipsAndCheese on Thursday 26th January 12:23

[Diesel130]

ufo2 said:

So how come Chris Harris's old meteor grey 997.1 GT3 which he purchased via Porsche Bristol without the extended warranty, then at a later date appeared back for sale @porsche Bristol which we all know was redlined caned within an inch of its life, aftermarket suspension,exhaust, different seats etc was able to pass OPC standards? (Personally I think he drove it how it's supposed to be driven).

OPC Bristol removed the suspension and exhaust and refitted the car's original items.

[mrdemon]

I would not buy a car in rev range 4 though, you cannot part ex it to a dealer and you run the risk of no warranty claims
added to that I doubt 911V would take it either.

I asked for a print out of the Spyer as it was used in the Auto car vid and was expecting rev's in range 3.
But 3 was totally clear.

It's a good check which not only protect the OPC, but now protects the buyer a bit more.
Just another tool to help people buy better looked after cars.