First Porsche - DME report help please?!

[Wheeler hogs]

Hello everyone,

I am looking at buying my very first Porsche this week from an OPC in London as used approved. I would really appreciate your opinions on this DME report I had sent to me. The car is a 2006 997 C4S.

Total operating hours - 1642.200h

Ignitions range 1 - 785 - at 1371.900 hours
Range 2 - 47 - at 1371.900h
Range 3 - 9 - at 936.400h
Range 4 - 2 - at 860.800h
Range 5 & 6 are the same hours and occurrences as range 4

Mileage approx 27k

Many thanks in advance for any help or views offered.

[Soovy]

Over revved.

Make sure you get the warranty cover in writing, otherwise run.


The 5 and 6 ranges sound like errors, but 4 is naughty.

[V8KSN]

Taken from this thread....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=110...

I believe there are 6 rev ranges for 997's (only 2 for 996's).

997 Carrera
Range 1 | >7300 and <7500
Range 2 | >7500 and <7700
Range 3 | >7700 and <7900
Range 4 | >7900 and <8400
Range 5 | >8400 and <9500
Range 6 | 9500+

[F3RNANDO]

Wheeler hogs said:

Hello everyone,

I am looking at buying my very first Porsche this week from an OPC in London as used approved. I would really appreciate your opinions on this DME report I had sent to me. The car is a 2006 997 C4S.

Total operating hours - 1642.200h

Ignitions range 1 - 785 - at 1371.900 hours
Range 2 - 47 - at 1371.900h
Range 3 - 9 - at 936.400h
Range 4 - 2 - at 860.800h
Range 5 & 6 are the same hours and occurrences as range 4

Mileage approx 27k

Many thanks in advance for any help or views offered.

3 events in 27K miles.....

Strangely never bounced off the limiter in normal driving since the last bad shift (as range 1 and 2 are coincident) but 3 mechnaical over revs due to poor down shifts and forcing the engine beyond the limiter at 860 hours into range 1 2 3 4 5 and 6! not as badly at 936 hours into range 1 2 3 and again at 1371 but only as far as range 2.

As said above make sure that the engine is guaranteed in the face of past abuse.

Interestingly - IMHO there is no way the OPC would normally welcome this car if you took it back in and asked for a warranty so maybe worth having that conversation now.

See the thread on overrevs and OPC recently.

[MadMark911]

V8KSN said:

Taken from this thread....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=110...

I believe there are 6 rev ranges for 997's (only 2 for 996's).

997 Carrera
Range 1 | >7300 and <7500
Range 2 | >7500 and <7700
Range 3 | >7700 and <7900
Range 4 | >7900 and <8400
Range 5 | >8400 and <9500
Range 6 | 9500+

Crumbs - I think my rev limiter is at 7,400 rpm - so you really do have to be abusing it to get into RR2 or above!

[F3RNANDO]

MadMark911 said:

Crumbs - I think my rev limiter is at 7,400 rpm - so you really do have to be abusing it to get into RR2 or above!

Zacly - ignitions in Range 1 just indicate how often you rev to the top of the band and hit the limiter - this is safe by design as the fuel is cut to stop further over revving.
The only way to get the engine into ranges above Range 1 is to make a bad change from a high gear and inadvertantly put the car into a lower gear which will buzz the engine beyond the limiter due to momentum of the drive train.

[nsm3]

Perhaps Pope can advise, but I thought range 5/6 meant pretty much damage had occurred?

I personally would swerve it as there are plenty of cars with cleaner DME reports about I'm sure, but then I am a scaredy-cat

[Wheeler hogs]

Thanks for all of your responses! Shame, I really liked this car.

My main concern is when I come to re-sell the car, that someone will respond in the same way and I will be knocked down on price.

[Tino]

The engine would normally have to pass through rev range 4 and 5 to get to 6.
So there should be more on 4 and 5 than on 6.
I reckon its a computer malfunction

[thegoose]

Wheeler hogs said:

Total operating hours - 1642.200h

Ignitions range 1 - 785 - at 1371.900 hours
Range 2 - 47 - at 1371.900h
Range 3 - 9 - at 936.400h
Range 4 - 2 - at 860.800h
Range 5 & 6 are the same hours and occurrences as range 4

Mileage approx 27k

I agree that the warranty must be issued in the knowledge of this report but I think that all the range 3,4 & 5 *could* be an error.

Firstly, to get to ranges 5 and 6 the engine has to accelerate and decelerate through the lower ranges, so how on earth has it only done the same number of ignitions in range 5 as 6 and in range 4 as 5? Does not make sense.

Also consider that there are 3 ignitions per revolution of the engine so at say 7,000 rpm there are 117 revolutions per second = 350 ignitions per second, therefore 1 ignition is one 350th of a second or 0.00285 seconds.

So even the 47 Range 2 ignitions seem to equate to a slightly early (as opposed to missed) down shift, as they were clearly the same event as the last Range 2. It could also be that left on the limiter for a couple of seconds allows Range 2 to be recorded, which would also seem possible here?

[Catpuddle]

Wheeler hogs said:

Hello everyone,

Range 4 - 2 - at 860.800h

That's been buzzed.

Run.

[ChipsAndCheese]

I reckon that the over revs recorded there are a glitch. IMO, looks like too few ignitions in 3 and 4 for them to be legit hits in 5 and 6. As has been said, the engine would decelerate through the ranges so there shouldn't be the same amount in 4, 5 and 6.

Up to rev range 3 can be recorded just from slamming into the limiter, and the OPCs don't worry about them.

If you are buying from an OPC they have to do a full inspection on it before applying the warranty if there are any ignitions in 4 or above (whether it was a glitch or not), so they will have done this before putting it up for sale. Once it has been inspected and warrantied, those previous over revs are forgotten in the OPC's eyes and they only count anything that happens after the inspection for future warranty renewals so, if it is the right car for you, and the OPC will stick a warranty on it then I personally wouldn't worry about it.

Edited by ChipsAndCheese on Monday 6th February 16:17

[Slippydiff]

nsm3 said:

Perhaps Pope can advise, but I thought range 5/6 meant pretty much damage had occurred?

I personally would swerve it as there are plenty of cars with cleaner DME reports about I'm sure, but then I'm scaredy-cat pragmatic and unwilling to contribute needless funds to Porsche AGs profits

EFA

[mm450exc]

Not sure how much if any damage you can do by spending 4ms in range 6. Besides that it's impossible to have 2 ignitions in 3 ranges if you think about it.

This happen 782 hours ago. OPC thinks this is ok and gives you warranty. If that happen 2 hours ago they would not.

[Wheeler hogs]

Thanks for all of this. I'm getting the sense that this is nothing to worry about if OPC are supplying a warranty etc. I guess any problems would have manifested themselves by now.

What I am most concerned about is how I assure the next person I sell to? I am not an OPC after all and wouldn't feel too warmly towards someone selling me this car without a strong backing - any thoughts?

[mm450exc]

Yes - that could be an issue when selling.

If you want the car get it. I got the following on my 997 Turbo - glitch or no glitch - that thing pulls like a train, burns 0 oil and I got OPC warranty.

Range 4: 3 ignitions
Range 5: 2
Range 6: 1

[Gibbo205]

Hi there

That is a good car!
10 or less ignitions is a software glitch, which means that car only has Range 1-2 ignitions.

[ChipsAndCheese]

Wheeler hogs said:

Thanks for all of this. I'm getting the sense that this is nothing to worry about if OPC are supplying a warranty etc. I guess any problems would have manifested themselves by now.

What I am most concerned about is how I assure the next person I sell to? I am not an OPC after all and wouldn't feel too warmly towards someone selling me this car without a strong backing - any thoughts?

Get a copy of the DME report from before you purchased the car. Ask the OPC for a copy of the inspection report if you can too. So long as when you come to sell the car you can show that there have been no more overrevs above range 3 since it was inspected and approved by Porsche, then that is the most important thing IMO. Depending on the age of the car and how long you plan to keep it, you could also keep it in the official warranty scheme, showing that Porsche are continually satisfied, come renewal inspection time, that no damage has occurred.

[Wheeler hogs]

Thanks for all of your opinions on this, I am impressed!!

[rog007]

If buying from an OPC (a registered trader), regardless of any trader warranty presented, you are covered by law under the Sale of Goods Act for merchantable quality. Any trader warranty is an add-on and of course a bonus. I'd therefore buy with confidence if it was the car I was after and at the right price. Good luck!