Boxster S on track.......wot I reckon.
Discussion
Bit bored tonight, so I thought I'd share my experiences of driving my 2001 Boxster S at Oulton Park on Saturday and Croft earlier last week. Sorry it's not posted on the Boxster forum, I just wanted to show the Porsche owners in general.
I used to have a track prepared E30 M3 until last year. 'Twas my track slag. I had to flog her owing to lack of space. I bought the Boxster S as a good all round sports car that could be used occasionally on the track. At no point did I think it would be as good as the track meister M3 (I'm not that daft), but I was hoping it would be OK.
It is OK as it turns out. The pics are from Oulton.
First of all, it was lovely to rock up at the track and not have to fanny on jacking up the car to fit sticky rubber. All I did was check the oil, coolant and tyre pressures. I got rid of the loose stuff in the cabin (my A-Z etc). Then I had breakfast whilst my mates in their quasi-race car E30 M3s effed and blinded with their trolley jacks etc.
In a straight line, the car was fine. Nice amount of power, more would obviously be nice.
The brakes were very good for standard items. The pads were standard. I got brake judder after 4 or 5 laps, but no fade. The judder disappeared after a cooling down lap.
The car was OK in low and medium speed corners. It slid in a predicatable fashion. After 4 or 5 laps, the car oversteered in tight bands. I found the rear tyre pressures had gone up from the factory recommended 36 PSI to 43.5 PSI. Letting out some air (about 6 PSI when hot) stopped the oversteer.
The car was reasonable in high speed bends, but not great. It didn't feel as planted as the track-spec M3, as you might expect. The car would float somewhat in the high speed bends which meant I lost confidence in the car to behave predictably. In other words, I took it easy in the fast bends.
The E30 M3s:
I think the Boxster S is possibly the best (second hand) all round sports car that 30 grand will buy. It would be reasonable to do, say 4 track days a year in it. If I was going to do 8 or more track days, I would want something more track-biased.
At Oulton, several cars went off the black stuff, and a rather nice M3 CSL was trashed. It got me thinking about cheaper cars being better for track days. A stripped E30 M3 can be had for 6 grand and that would do nicely. A 968 CS is another logical alternative. Caterhams are a beggar because driving to the track is hard work. Trailoring is a beggar because it takes hours to get there.
Perhaps a cheap tin-top on sticky tyres is the way forward? What do you fellas reckon?
Edited for spelling.
>>> Edited by johnny senna on Monday 12th July 21:47
I used to have a track prepared E30 M3 until last year. 'Twas my track slag. I had to flog her owing to lack of space. I bought the Boxster S as a good all round sports car that could be used occasionally on the track. At no point did I think it would be as good as the track meister M3 (I'm not that daft), but I was hoping it would be OK.
It is OK as it turns out. The pics are from Oulton.
First of all, it was lovely to rock up at the track and not have to fanny on jacking up the car to fit sticky rubber. All I did was check the oil, coolant and tyre pressures. I got rid of the loose stuff in the cabin (my A-Z etc). Then I had breakfast whilst my mates in their quasi-race car E30 M3s effed and blinded with their trolley jacks etc.
In a straight line, the car was fine. Nice amount of power, more would obviously be nice.
The brakes were very good for standard items. The pads were standard. I got brake judder after 4 or 5 laps, but no fade. The judder disappeared after a cooling down lap.
The car was OK in low and medium speed corners. It slid in a predicatable fashion. After 4 or 5 laps, the car oversteered in tight bands. I found the rear tyre pressures had gone up from the factory recommended 36 PSI to 43.5 PSI. Letting out some air (about 6 PSI when hot) stopped the oversteer.
The car was reasonable in high speed bends, but not great. It didn't feel as planted as the track-spec M3, as you might expect. The car would float somewhat in the high speed bends which meant I lost confidence in the car to behave predictably. In other words, I took it easy in the fast bends.
The E30 M3s:
I think the Boxster S is possibly the best (second hand) all round sports car that 30 grand will buy. It would be reasonable to do, say 4 track days a year in it. If I was going to do 8 or more track days, I would want something more track-biased.
At Oulton, several cars went off the black stuff, and a rather nice M3 CSL was trashed. It got me thinking about cheaper cars being better for track days. A stripped E30 M3 can be had for 6 grand and that would do nicely. A 968 CS is another logical alternative. Caterhams are a beggar because driving to the track is hard work. Trailoring is a beggar because it takes hours to get there.
Perhaps a cheap tin-top on sticky tyres is the way forward? What do you fellas reckon?
Edited for spelling.
>>> Edited by johnny senna on Monday 12th July 21:47
johnny senna said:
I think the Boxster S is possibly the best (second hand) all round sports car that 30 grand will buy. It would be reasonable to do, say 4 track days a year in it. If I was going to do 8 or more track days, I would want something more track-biased.
At Oulton, several cars went off the black stuff, and a rather nice M3 CSL was trashed. It got me thinking about cheaper cars being better for track days. A stripped E30 M3 can be had for 6 grand and that would do nicely. A 968 CS is another logical alternative. Caterhams are a beggar because driving to the track is hard work. Trailoring is a beggar because it takes hours to get there.
Perhaps a cheap tin-top on sticky tyres is the way forward? What do you fellas reckon?
Twas a good day at Oulton, although perhaps not for the CSL. I'm still suprised at the risks some people take with expensive road cars, - maybe they're insured or maybe they can afford the repairs, but it still seems a waste of money IMHO.
I'd agree with the cheap tin top - they must be safer than a Caterfield and can be driven to and(hopefully) from the circuit on road legal "sticky" tyres although I would suggest a 964 as better alternative to a Boxster
>> Edited by tony.t on Monday 12th July 22:12
tony.t,
Was yours the stripped red 964?
Do remember that our cars are blessed with the same power-to-weight ratio......people often forget that about the Boxster S!
Edited to say:
I have fully comp insurance on my car on track for £29 per track day. It's with Aon. However, it sometimes doesn't feel right flinging a 30 grand car around the track. I would hope my fully comp cover would insure me against being sued by 3rd parties I might hurt in a crash. I say this because when I was pulling out of the pits (at Oulton) to join the track, I nearly hit an Elise because I wasn't being careful enough...
....and also because the Boxster has a huge blind spot because of the hood. I appologised muchos to the Elise driver afterwards, but it could have been a very expensive mistake.
>> Edited by johnny senna on Monday 12th July 22:20
Was yours the stripped red 964?
Do remember that our cars are blessed with the same power-to-weight ratio......people often forget that about the Boxster S!
Edited to say:
I have fully comp insurance on my car on track for £29 per track day. It's with Aon. However, it sometimes doesn't feel right flinging a 30 grand car around the track. I would hope my fully comp cover would insure me against being sued by 3rd parties I might hurt in a crash. I say this because when I was pulling out of the pits (at Oulton) to join the track, I nearly hit an Elise because I wasn't being careful enough...
....and also because the Boxster has a huge blind spot because of the hood. I appologised muchos to the Elise driver afterwards, but it could have been a very expensive mistake. >> Edited by johnny senna on Monday 12th July 22:20
johnny senna said:
tony.t,
Was yours the stripped red 964?
Do remember that our cars are blessed with the same power-to-weight ratio......people often forget that about the Boxster S!
Johnny, Yes it was me. The car isn't finished yet and hopefully will look a bit tidier with carpets etc.
Car weighed 1279kg with 1/3 tank petrol before interior was lightened and 1/2 (of full) cage fitted, with 298bhp, so I've probably got an advantage power/weight
roygarth said:
Tony, what colour is your 964, we're you at Castle Coombe with Porsche Club the week before last?
Brgds
Piers
Piers, I wasn't at Castle Combe it's too far south to drive in the same day. Are you planning on any days up north?
>> Edited by tony.t on Monday 12th July 22:31
johnny senna said:
I think the Boxster S is possibly the best (second hand) all round sports car that 30 grand will buy.
Ok excuse the ramble, tiz wine fueled
If you mean in reference to track days then I think a long line of 964RS owners will disagree! Not quite Box S comfort for the road tho!
Ditto 993 owners with a few choice mods- the PH'ers ex car that Joel- RSJ had a week or so back being a prime example, & for less ££.
However your 30k could pretty much get- if you are willing to sit on the left 3 lovely wagons instead of one- a 964C2 to full psudo RS track slag spec, plus a nice 968CS, plus an E30 M3!! so it does have a fair bit of competition!
If you mean as a couple of yr old car, then fair enough you have a point, tho surely an E46 M3 with a decent set of Brembos/AP or similar on the front would be a fair alternative, esp if you are more a fan of front engined & RWD & the drifty frollics it can provide, early 996 now sub £30k too- if they float ya boat.
Got to admit Ive always been pretty harsh on Boxsters- but mainly on the 2.5s, driving a 2.5 tip years back as my 1st box experience was perhaps not the greatest intro to Boxsters! but the S is a different kettle of aquatic life & as those who've driven them know they are a decent little car to drive.
In fact I used to rave about Honda S2000's but recent S2000 re-aqauntance & lack of torque & having to rev the crap out of them to move above walking pace means I'd prob go for a used Box S over a new S2000.
Im a bit of a 350z fan now, with a slight bit of stiffening = surely a decent little road & track wagon for sub £30k, oh brakes not that fab eiher despite the bling bling gold Brembos I still made em catch fire after some enthusiastc b rd mayhem.
I have been thinking lately that if Box S's were down to my cheapstake levels (and prices of early ones are looking like they will continue to plumet- tho still a fair way from proper cheapskate levels yet it has to be said) would I have one, & yip perhaps I would.
I would just like to also go on record & say however that 968CS's are absolute sh*te.
(My last statement is not true of course, but the current intrest in the things means they soon do a 964RS & 993RS thing & appreciate wildly & then I'll never be able to afford a nice one!
) Mr Lizard,
Hope you are enjoying your wine.
As I said, it is as an ALL ROUND sports car that the Boxster S wins through IMHO. I was taking into account daily driving, comfort when driving to work, sunny days with blonde in passenger seat etc. It does indeed trump the 993/964 in these areas.
I'm not sure the lap times would be that differnent either (RS cars excepted).
I wouldn't get the beemer E46 M3. It needs expensive AP 6 pots in order to stop, the Boxster S does not.
Much as the japanese cars gain my respect, they do not have the Porsche's appeal (the appeal of being just that, a Porsche), which is hard to quantify so I'll not bother trying.
edited for spelling
>> Edited by johnny senna on Tuesday 13th July 08:59
Hope you are enjoying your wine.
As I said, it is as an ALL ROUND sports car that the Boxster S wins through IMHO. I was taking into account daily driving, comfort when driving to work, sunny days with blonde in passenger seat etc. It does indeed trump the 993/964 in these areas.
I'm not sure the lap times would be that differnent either (RS cars excepted). I wouldn't get the beemer E46 M3. It needs expensive AP 6 pots in order to stop, the Boxster S does not.
Much as the japanese cars gain my respect, they do not have the Porsche's appeal (the appeal of being just that, a Porsche), which is hard to quantify so I'll not bother trying.
edited for spelling
>> Edited by johnny senna on Tuesday 13th July 08:59
To be fair a BoxsterS is probably a better day to day proposistion than a 964/993 cost/reliability wise. In my experience they appear to be faster on track as well.
E46 M3 are OK as long as you are prepared to replace the brakes,tyres,gearbox and engines frequently.
968CS is underpowered; as is S2000.
996's are now so cheap and plentiful that worries over engine reliabilty are less of an issue and are a better rival to the Boxster S as an all round car and would be my choice ( as I don't like soft tops).
Boxster S is indeed lovely as are the 964s mentioned. For my money the best sub 30K pure track car is a LHD 993 Turbo, can get them for about this sum in Germany now. Totally sorted car at point of manufacture. Possible changes : strip it out, softer pads, slicks and a roll cage and you are in boost heaven !
cyrus1971 said:
Boxster S is indeed lovely as are the 964s mentioned. For my money the best sub 30K pure track car is a LHD 993 Turbo, can get them for about this sum in Germany now. Totally sorted car at point of manufacture. Possible changes : strip it out, softer pads, slicks and a roll cage and you are in boost heaven !
That sounds very good indeed.
Thanks for the write-up; always good to hear other's impressions of cars on trackdays.
It also allows you to have your sticky tyres & whatever other track preparation carried out in advance, enabling the breakfast consumption that you crave.
Trailoring Caterhams is the way forward
, but its not going to help your space problem at home. 
johnny senna said:I'd be willing to bet that trailoring doesn't actually take much longer than driving in your track car to the circuit given the average speeds that can be achieved on the roads today.
Caterhams are a beggar because driving to the track is hard work. Trailoring is a beggar because it takes hours to get there.
It also allows you to have your sticky tyres & whatever other track preparation carried out in advance, enabling the breakfast consumption that you crave.
Trailoring Caterhams is the way forward
, but its not going to help your space problem at home. frogisland,
The CSL came off at about 2.30-3.00 I think. He mashed the entire left side of the car. When I say "he", I mean the owner's mate!!!!
The owner didn't seem too bothered though. He was said to be smiling after the incident.
I suppose you are referring to MY near-miss with the Elise at the end of the pitlane? I had to appologise to the Elise driver for that. Thank god he used his horn! The blind-spot in the Boxster with the hood up is the size of Russia. And the Elise was in it.
I was not happy with myself for that. In my opinion, at Oulton there should be a marshal on the end of the pit lane telling people when it is safe to join the track. They do this at Croft. The closing speed of cars as they approach the pit exit is massive. Surely it is only a matter of time before someone hits someone else. I wasn't the only offender either, more than once a slow car pulled out of the pits right on front of me. Very unsettling.
The CSL came off at about 2.30-3.00 I think. He mashed the entire left side of the car. When I say "he", I mean the owner's mate!!!!
The owner didn't seem too bothered though. He was said to be smiling after the incident.
I suppose you are referring to MY near-miss with the Elise at the end of the pitlane? I had to appologise to the Elise driver for that. Thank god he used his horn! The blind-spot in the Boxster with the hood up is the size of Russia. And the Elise was in it.
I was not happy with myself for that. In my opinion, at Oulton there should be a marshal on the end of the pit lane telling people when it is safe to join the track. They do this at Croft. The closing speed of cars as they approach the pit exit is massive. Surely it is only a matter of time before someone hits someone else. I wasn't the only offender either, more than once a slow car pulled out of the pits right on front of me. Very unsettling.
Don't know about a marshal but a KEEP RIGHT sign at the end of the pit lane would not be a bad idea. It was in fact mentioned at the briefing but isn't always.
Trick is to accelerate hard down the pit exit, keep right until turn in at Cascades. Anything coming out of Old Hall on something like the correct line ought to be well left at the pit exit.
I think its a mistake lots of us have made.Best to make it once though.
Trick is to accelerate hard down the pit exit, keep right until turn in at Cascades. Anything coming out of Old Hall on something like the correct line ought to be well left at the pit exit.
I think its a mistake lots of us have made.Best to make it once though.
tony.t said:
Don't know about a marshal but a KEEP RIGHT sign at the end of the pit lane would not be a bad idea. It was in fact mentioned at the briefing but isn't always.
Trick is to accelerate hard down the pit exit, keep right until turn in at Cascades. Anything coming out of Old Hall on something like the correct line ought to be well left at the pit exit.
I think its a mistake lots of us have made.Best to make it once though.
I know Tony, you are right, it was mentioned at the briefing (I was caught out on that one occasion). But on your first lap on a track day you should really only be going at 75% in order to warm the engine, tyres, your brain etc and not belting down the pit lane at full tilt......but Oulton demands the fast take off you describe. I'd vote for a Marshal, I mean, why not?
Today I shall mainly be installing a breath tester on the Lizard PC, blimey what a load of babble, I even admited to liking Boxsters! think I'll go teetotal
993T indeed an animal but running costs after regular track abuse could indeed extend into quite scary figures, if youve got the budget to run a £50k track car then yes go for a £30k 993T, otherwise it could potentially really hurt.
However if sir has £30k to spend then he really has £35k, & if the has that he can then put about another few £k and as long as he can cope with LHD search for the built from granite (although GT3 owners may disagree to the nest bit-) posibly the best road/track compramise porker ever made- 993RS.
993T indeed an animal but running costs after regular track abuse could indeed extend into quite scary figures, if youve got the budget to run a £50k track car then yes go for a £30k 993T, otherwise it could potentially really hurt.
However if sir has £30k to spend then he really has £35k, & if the has that he can then put about another few £k and as long as he can cope with LHD search for the built from granite (although GT3 owners may disagree to the nest bit-) posibly the best road/track compramise porker ever made- 993RS.
I was at Oulton in my Sky Blue Westfield (with cage).
I didn't see the guy in the CSL come off, it happened just behind me, I passed him along the straight B4 Knickerbrook then as I was going down the Start finish straight saw the Red flags so had to do a full lap behind a Red 964 ???.
We passed the CSL backwards in the tyres just after Kinckerbrook, he looked OK on the drivers side, but when he eventually came in it looked like the otherside was mashed........
I hope he had insurance.
It was a good day, got some nice sideways action later in the day when it rained abit.
Goood thing about a trailer is you can always get home if you do have a moment..
I didn't see the guy in the CSL come off, it happened just behind me, I passed him along the straight B4 Knickerbrook then as I was going down the Start finish straight saw the Red flags so had to do a full lap behind a Red 964 ???.
We passed the CSL backwards in the tyres just after Kinckerbrook, he looked OK on the drivers side, but when he eventually came in it looked like the otherside was mashed........
I hope he had insurance.
It was a good day, got some nice sideways action later in the day when it rained abit.
Goood thing about a trailer is you can always get home if you do have a moment..
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff