Discussion
GuillaumeB said:
PocoLoco said:
Ouch - 56% depreciation in 3 years!
I was quoted just over 50k, so 53%.... still it's quite a hit to take and if you are worried about depreciation then probably not worth doing. Sure there are some deals to be had with finance however...Best 'deal' a buyer can have is cash in hand now.
Has anyone been able to secure a cash discount on a 991 yet?
PocoLoco said:
Ouch - 56% depreciation in 3 years!
That's not to say it will lose that amount in 3 years, could still be worth £50k so you'll get some money back out of the deal. That said 50%ish after 3 years is about right for most new cars, and Porsche have put themselves in a market where they're just 'another car' so the quoted figures above will no doubt be about right. All IMO of course.
Although everyone really knows if you can't afford to pay cash for it, you shouldn't be buying it!
I looked at it this way when I was considering financing. 95,000.00 purchase price, 20,000.00 deposit, borrowing 75,000.00 over three years. At an interest rate of say 4% flat PA (approx. 8.4% APR) that gives 12% total interest on the amount borrowed over the term = 9,000.00.
By investing 75,000.00 into my business I can make more than the 3000.00 a year in interest charges and therefore it makes sense to borrow the money rather than tying my capital up in a depreciating asset. Hope that makes sense?
By investing 75,000.00 into my business I can make more than the 3000.00 a year in interest charges and therefore it makes sense to borrow the money rather than tying my capital up in a depreciating asset. Hope that makes sense?
xftdr said:
Utter madness.
Why kind of salary do you have to be on to be in a position to think that a loss like that is acceptable for a car?
Not many people buying these cars are "just" on a salary. The profile is going to be more business owners who can take chunks of cash out, large bonus city types, independently wealthy etc, etc. Why kind of salary do you have to be on to be in a position to think that a loss like that is acceptable for a car?
Agree with the need to be able to afford it outright with cash. No question.
The appeal of the PCP for me initially was to treat it as insurance on depreciation (thanks to the GFV) - a low cost option to set a floor on market value in 2-3 years.
Unfortunately the GFV and cost of the option (interest) means the market value needs to be south of 40k in 3 years (GFV less interest) to make it worthwhile. Perhaps I'm being naive, but hope that it's not likely!
On the other hand, the above man-maths doesn't take into account the ability to try and earn some of that post-tax interest expense back through investment.
The above sure works on a Cayman R these days, possibly the 4GTS too. Run-out models.
The appeal of the PCP for me initially was to treat it as insurance on depreciation (thanks to the GFV) - a low cost option to set a floor on market value in 2-3 years.
Unfortunately the GFV and cost of the option (interest) means the market value needs to be south of 40k in 3 years (GFV less interest) to make it worthwhile. Perhaps I'm being naive, but hope that it's not likely!
On the other hand, the above man-maths doesn't take into account the ability to try and earn some of that post-tax interest expense back through investment.
The above sure works on a Cayman R these days, possibly the 4GTS too. Run-out models.
s2000db said:
So where can you earn more interest than the finance charges then?
Buy property overseas, where your capital wins on multiple fronts: a) stronger/strengthening foreign ccy vs GBP, b) more buoyant property markets than in the UK, and c) leverage up.People who buy a new 991 cash are imho not so smart unless cash is irrelevant to them, especially those who proclaim they will hold for years... great, they are looking at rinsing >50k British Pounds over 3 years (maybe even shorter depending on how things go), in a negative real money value economic market so their capital tied up in the depreciating asset is worth ever less.
Bring it back to the 'relative value' discussion, and you realise that the fractional improvements of the 991 over, say a GTS
, are at an unacceptable cost (to me) - magnified when Porsche were willing to provide some competitive economics on the last of the line desirable 997.2 GTS (with all the niggles ironed out). The 991 is not the massive improvement over the last 997.2 that many had hoped for (me included), and the differences come at too high a financial cost imho - let's not forget that some differences are welcomed, and some differences are not welcomed by those who appreciate the flawed-but-wonderful-traditional-911 driving dynamics. For all the reasons, it is no wonder the 991 simply isn't selling that well - I suspect Porsche are soon going to have to offer discounts or the equivalent financing deals on the 991 to shift them, or simply kill off other 997 offerings sooner than expected (and possibly incur excess supply costs). Halo 991 models such as the 991 Turbo and 991 GT3/RS can't come out soon enough imho.
Edited by spareparts on Saturday 17th March 19:45
OK, for example, I buy 75,000.00 of shares in a company called Provexis (PXS) at 1.5p (which I have and they are at the moment). They have a potential announcement and the share price goes to 6p by the end of August. My 75,000.00 becomes 300,000.00. No brainer.... This is my decision and not guaranteed by any means but am confident. I like a gamble like the next man but it pays for the 911....
Captain James T said:
OK, for example, I buy 75,000.00 of shares in a company called Provexis (PXS) at 1.5p (which I have and they are at the moment). They have a potential announcement and the share price goes to 6p by the end of August. My 75,000.00 becomes 300,000.00. No brainer.... This is my decision and not guaranteed by any means but am confident. I like a gamble like the next man but it pays for the 911....
Which is exactly the point!(Not suggesting that your approach is wrong).
spareparts said:
Buy property overseas, where your capital wins on multiple fronts: a) stronger/strengthening foreign ccy vs GBP, b) more buoyant property markets than in the UK, and c) leverage up.
People who buy a new 991 cash are imho not so smart unless cash is irrelevant to them, especially those who proclaim they will hold for years... great, they are looking at rinsing >50k British Pounds over 3 years (maybe even shorter depending on how things go), in a negative real money value economic market so their capital tied up in the depreciating asset is worth ever less.
Bring it back to the 'relative value' discussion, and you realise that the fractional improvements of the 991 over, say a GTS, are at an unacceptable cost (to me) - magnified when Porsche were willing to provide some competitive economics on the last of the line desirable 997.2 GTS (with all the niggles ironed out). The 991 is not the massive improvement over the last 997.2 that many had hoped for (me included), and the differences come at too high a financial cost imho - let's not forget that some differences are welcomed, and some differences are not welcomed by those who appreciate the flawed-but-wonderful-traditional-911 driving dynamics.
For all the reasons, it is no wonder the 991 simply isn't selling that well - I suspect Porsche are soon going to have to offer discounts or the equivalent financing deals on the 991 to shift them, or simply kill off other 997 offerings sooner than expected (and possibly incur excess supply costs). Halo 991 models such as the 991 Turbo and 991 GT3/RS can't come out soon enough imho.
People who buy a new 991 cash are imho not so smart unless cash is irrelevant to them, especially those who proclaim they will hold for years... great, they are looking at rinsing >50k British Pounds over 3 years (maybe even shorter depending on how things go), in a negative real money value economic market so their capital tied up in the depreciating asset is worth ever less.
Bring it back to the 'relative value' discussion, and you realise that the fractional improvements of the 991 over, say a GTS
, are at an unacceptable cost (to me) - magnified when Porsche were willing to provide some competitive economics on the last of the line desirable 997.2 GTS (with all the niggles ironed out). The 991 is not the massive improvement over the last 997.2 that many had hoped for (me included), and the differences come at too high a financial cost imho - let's not forget that some differences are welcomed, and some differences are not welcomed by those who appreciate the flawed-but-wonderful-traditional-911 driving dynamics. For all the reasons, it is no wonder the 991 simply isn't selling that well - I suspect Porsche are soon going to have to offer discounts or the equivalent financing deals on the 991 to shift them, or simply kill off other 997 offerings sooner than expected (and possibly incur excess supply costs). Halo 991 models such as the 991 Turbo and 991 GT3/RS can't come out soon enough imho.
Edited by spareparts on Saturday 17th March 19:45
sidicks said:
Captain James T said:
OK, for example, I buy 75,000.00 of shares in a company called Provexis (PXS) at 1.5p (which I have and they are at the moment). They have a potential announcement and the share price goes to 6p by the end of August. My 75,000.00 becomes 300,000.00. No brainer.... This is my decision and not guaranteed by any means but am confident. I like a gamble like the next man but it pays for the 911....
Which is exactly the point!(Not suggesting that your approach is wrong).
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff