991 Extended Test Drive . Believe The Hype ?
Discussion
Evo or Kacher ? That is the question .
I must admit the 991 base variants have not interested me at all . They fit no where for me , I am lucky enough to have a couple of cars that do different jobs so I havent even considered a " Jack of all trades " Porsche 911 since my 997 GTS .
The thing that intrigues me regarding the 991 are the different views , opinions and general gossip on the www . That has really piqued my interest . Can it be so bad or so good ?
On one hand EVO preferred an R8 ( citing steering feel as an issue ) and Car ( George Kacher none the less , a man I respect as much as any car journo ever ) on the other hand had the opposite result . I must admit the idea that the r8 ( a car I have never really thought of as having the best or purest steering in the world ) having a better rack than a 911 shocked me , so I decided to find out for myself . OPC Guildford were kind enough to provide me with a PDK C2S 991 to test for a couple of days and some friends were kind enough to turn up in a 996 Turbo , 997 gt3.2 and 997gt3rs.2 for acceleration comparisons .
First impression is that it looks nice the 991 .
Expensive , low , wide and clear . The bum bum is a little messy , but remove the " 911 , 3.6 pdk , carrera 2s , Get To Da Chappaaaaa " badge from the rump and it would be nice . In fact I quite like the retro " Porsche " lettering , very 70's 911 .
The shape is more complicated and muscular than it looks in photographs , the downside being that the brake disks look a bit puny hiding in those mighty 20 inch wheels . For a " base " 911( can you call a 100 k car base ?) it looks really sharp and new .
The first thing I noticed when I opened the door was the smell . It has that lovely new car leather smell , I really like that . The interior is very nice indeed . Solid , well designed and ergonomically sound .
I feel quite sorry for Porsche in this respect , the 997 interior was " too plain for its price , boring , not as special as an R8 " now they have made an effort to remedy this all I hear is " its too luxurious , its not like a 911 (?) , im thirsty , my God look at the size of those b..." you get the picture . For what its worth I think it is great and the gearstick sits almost exactly the same distance away from the steering wheel as a CARRERA gt's , the rising centre console is a good idea .
What isnt so good is the Jupiter sized sunroof that opens about a handspan ( im not joking ) , the electronic ( slack jawed , killjoy ) handbrake , the windscreen being so far away and the fact that you cant see the front wings as well as in previous cars from the drivers seat ( a fundamental 911 trait IMHO ) . You soon get used to these things ( though but I still miss the front wings ) , I miss that almost sniper rifle view I used to get looking out of the windscreen of a 911 .
As I manoeuvred the car around the car park I was shocked . It was horrid . Light , artificial and uncommunicative .
Oh dear , this is worse than I dared think . What have they done ? Who was in charge of this project ? Unbelievable !
I got out and talked to the guys , explaining how horrible it was . The general consensus was to take the car and keep on the road test plan .
A short drive to Nandos got my hopes up , the steering seemed much better at speed but its hard to tell in small bursts in stop start traffic . After a quick lunch we headed for the secret test facilities ...
Lets get straight to the point , the steering .
As you start to drive faster and harder the strangest thing happens . The cars helm does indeed communicate with you , but differently . It talks to you in another language but one that you can indeed still get everything you need from , if you listen .
You certainly do not get that forced kick back ,wriggle wriggle you get in the old car but to call the steering dead and without feel is just plain wrong and grossly unfair .
The car does communicate , some back ground noises are missing , but all the necessary messages are passed on absolutely fine . Im glad to say Kacher beat EVO for accuracy , my conclusions are much closer to the great mans . Kacher 1 EVO 0 . To say the r8 has a more communicative chassis and helm is frankly popycock , it smacks of a protest vote for the EDL or Muslamic Rayguns come election time ( emotive but ultimately futile ) . The steering loads up under speed , is sharp and you can feel different surfaces through it and through the seat of your pants . Thats more than good enough or maybe I just have better feel than most ...
I do however have a possible explanation . The car we tried was NOT equipped with the PDCC ( the adaptive arb and anti roll system ). Apparently this system feels very different from a conventional set up and I could ( possibly ) see how this combined with a different steering feel could cause concerns . However until I try one out this is just speculation .
The first thing you notice is the amazing very un 911 like turn in . There is none of that wait ,wait, wait , power 911 ness . No real need to set the front with trail braking . It just turns in , immediately and better than a 4.0rs .
Its like a mid engined car in that respect . If this new turn in is mated with the old 911 hammer out of corners then the 991 gen racers will be formidable weapons on track indeed , it certainly seemed to be .
It deals with bumps , adverse cambers and general road conditions very well . I cannot believe the way some 997 gts and c2s owners and how they talk about this car , all I can tell you as someone who owned a c2s and a GTS very recently is that the 991 is head and shoulders above those 997 variants in almost every way . They certainly wouldnt see which way a 991 went on the road , believe me its very very fast , comfortable , well built and yet still more agile . Put in the effort and you can still have a lovely communicative relationship with this gen 911 , I cant wait for the GT and Turbo variants .
Just how fast is this car ? In a straight line up to about 120 mph it seemed faster than a 3.8 GT3 and GT3RS im afraid . Wether on the move or from a standing start this bloody machine was consistently faster than both cars in direct comparison , although its debatable how much of that was down to the drivers . The gearbox obviously also made a difference but the fact that we are even mentioning this car in the same breath as a 3.8 rs in terms of straight line speed says enough about the car .
Bye the way the launch control is laugh out loud funny , its really very fast off the line and the lc easy to engage .
I cornered at times over 140 mph on our private test area and can confirm the car was rock solid and very , very stable . With the optional sports exhaust it sounded really nice . There was lots of good noise ( engine and exhaust with a few nice [ if somewhat contrived ] crackles and burbles on the over run ) and much less bad noise ( tyre roar and wind noise ) than in the 997 .
Getting the car to hang / slide is another matter however . It steadfastly refuses to let go from the rear but it does hang eventually . Just ask George F Williams ( our photographer for the day ) how savagely I had to stomp the gas pedal to get it out of shape a little and induce some power oversteer ( on the private test track of course ) , its a less of a hooligan than the previous gen cars for sure .
In summary its as its always been newer and more refined yet faster and more capable . Would I buy one ? No . If you wanted one car to do everything then you could probably get no better car but for me I cant stop thinking that a fully specced one is only a couple of grand less than a second hand 599 . Theres no logic to this I know and they are completely different cars but I never claimed to be logical . I am looking forward to the Turbo and GT3 variants though , I think they will be game changing .
( I have no pictures of the test but if you all ask gf williams nicely i think he has some he can share ) .
p.s MODS for some reason I have posted this in the Mercedes section . Help .
I must admit the 991 base variants have not interested me at all . They fit no where for me , I am lucky enough to have a couple of cars that do different jobs so I havent even considered a " Jack of all trades " Porsche 911 since my 997 GTS .
The thing that intrigues me regarding the 991 are the different views , opinions and general gossip on the www . That has really piqued my interest . Can it be so bad or so good ?
On one hand EVO preferred an R8 ( citing steering feel as an issue ) and Car ( George Kacher none the less , a man I respect as much as any car journo ever ) on the other hand had the opposite result . I must admit the idea that the r8 ( a car I have never really thought of as having the best or purest steering in the world ) having a better rack than a 911 shocked me , so I decided to find out for myself . OPC Guildford were kind enough to provide me with a PDK C2S 991 to test for a couple of days and some friends were kind enough to turn up in a 996 Turbo , 997 gt3.2 and 997gt3rs.2 for acceleration comparisons .
First impression is that it looks nice the 991 .
Expensive , low , wide and clear . The bum bum is a little messy , but remove the " 911 , 3.6 pdk , carrera 2s , Get To Da Chappaaaaa " badge from the rump and it would be nice . In fact I quite like the retro " Porsche " lettering , very 70's 911 .
The shape is more complicated and muscular than it looks in photographs , the downside being that the brake disks look a bit puny hiding in those mighty 20 inch wheels . For a " base " 911( can you call a 100 k car base ?) it looks really sharp and new .
The first thing I noticed when I opened the door was the smell . It has that lovely new car leather smell , I really like that . The interior is very nice indeed . Solid , well designed and ergonomically sound .
I feel quite sorry for Porsche in this respect , the 997 interior was " too plain for its price , boring , not as special as an R8 " now they have made an effort to remedy this all I hear is " its too luxurious , its not like a 911 (?) , im thirsty , my God look at the size of those b..." you get the picture . For what its worth I think it is great and the gearstick sits almost exactly the same distance away from the steering wheel as a CARRERA gt's , the rising centre console is a good idea .
What isnt so good is the Jupiter sized sunroof that opens about a handspan ( im not joking ) , the electronic ( slack jawed , killjoy ) handbrake , the windscreen being so far away and the fact that you cant see the front wings as well as in previous cars from the drivers seat ( a fundamental 911 trait IMHO ) . You soon get used to these things ( though but I still miss the front wings ) , I miss that almost sniper rifle view I used to get looking out of the windscreen of a 911 .
As I manoeuvred the car around the car park I was shocked . It was horrid . Light , artificial and uncommunicative .
Oh dear , this is worse than I dared think . What have they done ? Who was in charge of this project ? Unbelievable !
I got out and talked to the guys , explaining how horrible it was . The general consensus was to take the car and keep on the road test plan .
A short drive to Nandos got my hopes up , the steering seemed much better at speed but its hard to tell in small bursts in stop start traffic . After a quick lunch we headed for the secret test facilities ...
Lets get straight to the point , the steering .
As you start to drive faster and harder the strangest thing happens . The cars helm does indeed communicate with you , but differently . It talks to you in another language but one that you can indeed still get everything you need from , if you listen .
You certainly do not get that forced kick back ,wriggle wriggle you get in the old car but to call the steering dead and without feel is just plain wrong and grossly unfair .
The car does communicate , some back ground noises are missing , but all the necessary messages are passed on absolutely fine . Im glad to say Kacher beat EVO for accuracy , my conclusions are much closer to the great mans . Kacher 1 EVO 0 . To say the r8 has a more communicative chassis and helm is frankly popycock , it smacks of a protest vote for the EDL or Muslamic Rayguns come election time ( emotive but ultimately futile ) . The steering loads up under speed , is sharp and you can feel different surfaces through it and through the seat of your pants . Thats more than good enough or maybe I just have better feel than most ...
I do however have a possible explanation . The car we tried was NOT equipped with the PDCC ( the adaptive arb and anti roll system ). Apparently this system feels very different from a conventional set up and I could ( possibly ) see how this combined with a different steering feel could cause concerns . However until I try one out this is just speculation .
The first thing you notice is the amazing very un 911 like turn in . There is none of that wait ,wait, wait , power 911 ness . No real need to set the front with trail braking . It just turns in , immediately and better than a 4.0rs .
Its like a mid engined car in that respect . If this new turn in is mated with the old 911 hammer out of corners then the 991 gen racers will be formidable weapons on track indeed , it certainly seemed to be .
It deals with bumps , adverse cambers and general road conditions very well . I cannot believe the way some 997 gts and c2s owners and how they talk about this car , all I can tell you as someone who owned a c2s and a GTS very recently is that the 991 is head and shoulders above those 997 variants in almost every way . They certainly wouldnt see which way a 991 went on the road , believe me its very very fast , comfortable , well built and yet still more agile . Put in the effort and you can still have a lovely communicative relationship with this gen 911 , I cant wait for the GT and Turbo variants .
Just how fast is this car ? In a straight line up to about 120 mph it seemed faster than a 3.8 GT3 and GT3RS im afraid . Wether on the move or from a standing start this bloody machine was consistently faster than both cars in direct comparison , although its debatable how much of that was down to the drivers . The gearbox obviously also made a difference but the fact that we are even mentioning this car in the same breath as a 3.8 rs in terms of straight line speed says enough about the car .
Bye the way the launch control is laugh out loud funny , its really very fast off the line and the lc easy to engage .
I cornered at times over 140 mph on our private test area and can confirm the car was rock solid and very , very stable . With the optional sports exhaust it sounded really nice . There was lots of good noise ( engine and exhaust with a few nice [ if somewhat contrived ] crackles and burbles on the over run ) and much less bad noise ( tyre roar and wind noise ) than in the 997 .
Getting the car to hang / slide is another matter however . It steadfastly refuses to let go from the rear but it does hang eventually . Just ask George F Williams ( our photographer for the day ) how savagely I had to stomp the gas pedal to get it out of shape a little and induce some power oversteer ( on the private test track of course ) , its a less of a hooligan than the previous gen cars for sure .
In summary its as its always been newer and more refined yet faster and more capable . Would I buy one ? No . If you wanted one car to do everything then you could probably get no better car but for me I cant stop thinking that a fully specced one is only a couple of grand less than a second hand 599 . Theres no logic to this I know and they are completely different cars but I never claimed to be logical . I am looking forward to the Turbo and GT3 variants though , I think they will be game changing .
( I have no pictures of the test but if you all ask gf williams nicely i think he has some he can share ) .
p.s MODS for some reason I have posted this in the Mercedes section . Help .
Edited by wtdoom on Tuesday 20th March 14:31
Thanks for the review, great writing style!
Any review with a Predator movie reference in gets full mark.
I agree with this:
Any review with a Predator movie reference in gets full mark.
I agree with this:
wtdoom said:
I cant stop thinking that a fully specced one is only a couple of grand less than a second hand 599 . Theres no logic to this I know and they are completely different cars but I never claimed to be logical .
I suppose the answer is, the blokes might not be logical but the wives are. MadMark911 said:
Very interesting! So far my conclusion from reading these "experiences" is leave off the PDCC and Power Steering Plus from the options list. The car is already expensive enough without spending more to "ruin" it! 
I would drop BOSE and PSE before either of those. It will save a lot more money and leave performance intact.Thanks for the write-up OP. Sounds like you had a great time!
Actus Reus said:
Interesting comments - thanks. Would be interested to hear your point of view on a PDCC car - seems this option is splitting opinion like no other.
GuillaumeB said:
You can say that again! 
Im trying a PDCC car either later in the week or early next week after SPA , Ill let you know asap .MadMark911 said:
Very interesting! So far my conclusion from reading these "experiences" is leave off the PDCC and Power Steering Plus from the options list. The car is already expensive enough without spending more to "ruin" it!
Id very possibly do the same . I think id go Bose though , it would be a pity to have such a nice car with a crappy sound system .Carl_Docklands said:
Thanks for the review, great writing style!
Any review with a Predator movie reference in gets full mark.
I agree with this:
Thanks for the compliment . Its a great car when you take into account all the extra kit ( diff , sat nav , i pod etc etc ) its not even much more expensive , and yet ... Any review with a Predator movie reference in gets full mark.
I agree with this:
wtdoom said:
I cant stop thinking that a fully specced one is only a couple of grand less than a second hand 599 . Theres no logic to this I know and they are completely different cars but I never claimed to be logical .
I suppose the answer is, the blokes might not be logical but the wives are. Manks said:
I would drop BOSE and PSE before either of those. It will save a lot more money and leave performance intact.
Thanks for the write-up OP. Sounds like you had a great time!
cheers I really enjoyed the day and look forward to trying the other spec car Id really consider the Bose though . The standard Porsche systems are pretty horrible ...Thanks for the write-up OP. Sounds like you had a great time!
wtdoom said:
I cannot believe the way some 997 gts and c2s owners and how they talk about this car , all I can tell you as someone who owned a c2s and a GTS very recently is that the 991 is head and shoulders above those 997 variants in almost every way . They certainly wouldnt see which way a 991 went on the road.
And this is why i refuse to 'borrow' the demo for a weekend however much i'm itching to drive one. I would have to buy it. And i really don't want to do that 
Great write up. Sounds a great car.
Great perspective on the 991 but I remain confused by the new car. The comments about the steering are the key talking point (as always), in one breath 'horrid' and in another communicating, but in a completely different way (WTF)! I'm not defending the GTS, it's my car of choice for now, but I don't quite see how those comments make the 991 better in every way, especially when the stand out feature of my car is the steering feel. I don't care that the 991 is quicker, mine is quick enough thanks, but accept that it moves the game on. Have a track day booked for April and looking forward to drawing my own conclusions, but I enjoyed reading the OP's impressions.
Carl_Docklands said:
Phooey said:
Zyp said:
Christ, give the Merc 6 months weeks, at least!
Queue for salesman who has sold 1 991 all year to get out of bed and stop taking anti-depressants.
WTD - that's a great write-up.
Can you take over from JC in the Sunday Times supplement, please?
Blue62 said:
Great perspective on the 991 but I remain confused by the new car. The comments about the steering are the key talking point (as always), in one breath 'horrid' and in another communicating, but in a completely different way (WTF)! I'm not defending the GTS, it's my car of choice for now, but I don't quite see how those comments make the 991 better in every way, especially when the stand out feature of my car is the steering feel. I don't care that the 991 is quicker, mine is quick enough thanks, but accept that it moves the game on. Have a track day booked for April and looking forward to drawing my own conclusions, but I enjoyed reading the OP's impressions.
FWIW I agree. GTS is not as quick but it's quick enough. Steering feel is better and transition from grip to slip is better telegraphed in GTS (compared to PDCC car) IMHO. No doubt that 991 is an awesome car and also no doubt that there is steering feel just not quite as much as the GTS. I'll be interested to hear your views when you've had a go though! I also love the manual gearshift in mine, 7 speed concept just doesn't seem right to me!Blue62 said:
Great perspective on the 991 but I remain confused by the new car. The comments about the steering are the key talking point (as always), in one breath 'horrid' and in another communicating, but in a completely different way (WTF)! I'm not defending the GTS, it's my car of choice for now, but I don't quite see how those comments make the 991 better in every way, especially when the stand out feature of my car is the steering feel. I don't care that the 991 is quicker, mine is quick enough thanks, but accept that it moves the game on. Have a track day booked for April and looking forward to drawing my own conclusions, but I enjoyed reading the OP's impressions.
not sure i have read any reviews describing the steering as horrid.The questions as someone posed to me is two fold...is the steering feel less ...almost all reviews say so,is the steering better..thats a more split opinion .J-P said:
Nice write-up WT - sounds like our views are similar. 991 is nowhere near as special as 4.0RS and for me far less interesting to drive but yes it damn quick! 991 GT3RS is the one to have me thinks - that'll be an awesome car!!!
Thanks matey . I agree I think the GT and Turbo versions will be truly immense .Blue62 said:
Great perspective on the 991 but I remain confused by the new car. The comments about the steering are the key talking point (as always), in one breath 'horrid' and in another communicating, but in a completely different way (WTF)! I'm not defending the GTS, it's my car of choice for now, but I don't quite see how those comments make the 991 better in every way, especially when the stand out feature of my car is the steering feel. I don't care that the 991 is quicker, mine is quick enough thanks, but accept that it moves the game on. Have a track day booked for April and looking forward to drawing my own conclusions, but I enjoyed reading the OP's impressions.
Let me try to explain . When I was moving the car around in the carpark I had just got out of a 4.0 rs and it felt horrible at low speeds . Then once I drove the car properly it was much much better . By different I mean , you dont get as much feedback and kickback but you are still able to feel everything you need to , some people may even prefer this less nervous feeling rack .
Zyp said:
Leicester OPC's Christmas party is back on!
WTD - that's a great write-up.
Can you take over from JC in the Sunday Times supplement, please?
Thanks for the compliment but Id rather be editor of Big Boobs Bonanza ! WTD - that's a great write-up.
Can you take over from JC in the Sunday Times supplement, please?
J-P said:
FWIW I agree. GTS is not as quick but it's quick enough. Steering feel is better and transition from grip to slip is better telegraphed in GTS (compared to PDCC car) IMHO. No doubt that 991 is an awesome car and also no doubt that there is steering feel just not quite as much as the GTS. I'll be interested to hear your views when you've had a go though! I also love the manual gearshift in mine, 7 speed concept just doesn't seem right to me!
I havent driven a PDCC yet but this felt really good , really clear chassis communication between slides . Im hoping to get into a PDCC car for a comparison very soon .Drclarke said:
Unusual and enjoyable writing style you have there!
Are there any snippets of information from the dealers on the release date for the turbo version?
Thank you good DR . Im hearing a few things re the turbo . I did hear maybe as soon as early next year " with GT variants soon after " which would be earlier than the usual Porsche scheduling .Are there any snippets of information from the dealers on the release date for the turbo version?
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