Boxster - 2nd gear problem
Discussion
Hi,
I have a 2001 (Y) Porsche Boxster and have noticed recently that it seems a little difficult to get the car into 2nd gear (from 1st) when the engine is cold.
If you take it out of 1st and return the gear stick to the neutral position before going into 2nd it seems fine. Once the engine has warmed up there seems to be no problems at all.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
I have a 2001 (Y) Porsche Boxster and have noticed recently that it seems a little difficult to get the car into 2nd gear (from 1st) when the engine is cold.
If you take it out of 1st and return the gear stick to the neutral position before going into 2nd it seems fine. Once the engine has warmed up there seems to be no problems at all.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
This is a common issue that both Hartech and Sports & Classic can resolve - it's no accident that S & C are the first relevant result if you Google "Porsche gearbox repair".
They will each carry out a modification to deal with the box design's shortcomings regarding 2nd gear selection too. It's quite common when I pop in at S & C that they have a few gearboxes jobs in, often sent to them by Porsche specialists. I drove one of the newly built Hartech race cars for the first time on Easter Monday (the car I will be campigning for them this year) and the first thing I remarkeed on was how nice the gearchange was.
They will each carry out a modification to deal with the box design's shortcomings regarding 2nd gear selection too. It's quite common when I pop in at S & C that they have a few gearboxes jobs in, often sent to them by Porsche specialists. I drove one of the newly built Hartech race cars for the first time on Easter Monday (the car I will be campigning for them this year) and the first thing I remarkeed on was how nice the gearchange was.
Yeh, S & C repaired my old Boxster S gearbox. It would jump out of 2nd when cold, then one day 5th and 6th vanished competely!! The stick just flopped around between the top two gears as if attached to nothing, whilst working as normal in 1st to 4th?!!
Fault was a failed pin in the selector within the box, and a worn 2nd gear.
Say bye bye to £1800 big ones baby!!
I've never had Porsche cost me so much in so little time as that boxster did with roof and gearbox issues. I'd have a good 944 over a boxster anyday of the week and save a small fortune!
Fault was a failed pin in the selector within the box, and a worn 2nd gear.
Say bye bye to £1800 big ones baby!!
I've never had Porsche cost me so much in so little time as that boxster did with roof and gearbox issues. I'd have a good 944 over a boxster anyday of the week and save a small fortune!
I recently upgraded my gear selector mechanism (to the 997 base version) and that made it obvious to me that the gear stick itself is just a gimbal that can move completely freely in any direction.
Therefore, any obstruction that you feel through the stick is highly unlikely to come from the selector/cables. What you are actually feeling is an issue from within the gearbox as transmitted by the selector mechanism.
What's your mileage? Regardless of mileage, the gearbox oil is supposed to be changed at 10 years IIRC. I had this done just ahead of time (and at 135k kms). The OPC would have used OEM fluid and I beleive that I could detect a slight improvement in feel. However, I wonder if an alternative fluid would have produced a better feel...
I'm happy with mine now but there is a very slight reluctance to get it into 2nd and I would have to concede that ultimately, it's likely to be worn synchros...
Therefore, any obstruction that you feel through the stick is highly unlikely to come from the selector/cables. What you are actually feeling is an issue from within the gearbox as transmitted by the selector mechanism.
What's your mileage? Regardless of mileage, the gearbox oil is supposed to be changed at 10 years IIRC. I had this done just ahead of time (and at 135k kms). The OPC would have used OEM fluid and I beleive that I could detect a slight improvement in feel. However, I wonder if an alternative fluid would have produced a better feel...
I'm happy with mine now but there is a very slight reluctance to get it into 2nd and I would have to concede that ultimately, it's likely to be worn synchros...
MogulBoy said:
...any obstruction that you feel through the stick is highly unlikely to come from the selector/cables. What you are actually feeling is an issue from within the gearbox as transmitted by the selector mechanism..
It does happen. I recently had to get both cables changed on a 2005 987 - made a huge difference to the previously very stiff gearchange. Job was done at Sports and Classic (clutch and RMS and IMS seal too).thegoose said:
There was other stuff on the bill too (3 coil pack and 6 plugs etc) but I think the clutch job is £620, plus RMS & IMS seals, gearchange cables were just over £200 plus labour (2-3 hours?). Better to contact Mike for a quote than ask me really.
Thank you for that, very helpful, will contact Mike at some point (It's the IMS that worries me)R2TR
irthomas said:
Hi,
I have a 2001 (Y) Porsche Boxster and have noticed recently that it seems a little difficult to get the car into 2nd gear (from 1st) when the engine is cold.
If you take it out of 1st and return the gear stick to the neutral position before going into 2nd it seems fine. Once the engine has warmed up there seems to be no problems at all.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
I'd be leery of having the linkage messed with unless you're very confident in the tech's skills/experience and he is able to make a very very high confidence level diagnosis the linkage is the cause of the behavior. More harm than good can be done if the tech doesn't know what he's doing.I have a 2001 (Y) Porsche Boxster and have noticed recently that it seems a little difficult to get the car into 2nd gear (from 1st) when the engine is cold.
If you take it out of 1st and return the gear stick to the neutral position before going into 2nd it seems fine. Once the engine has warmed up there seems to be no problems at all.
Any help is greatly appreciated!
Might mention my 02's tranny which has covered 254.7+K miles has never had its shift linkage adjusted/messed with. Original linkage too.
Based on my experience the behavior you describe does read rather like normal behavior. (However, you are certainly free to have a professional/qualified/Porsche experienced tech check the car out and confirm the behavior is nothing serious. Someone's opinion/diagnosis who's actually been at the car trumps someone's opinion who's 6K miles (or more) away from the car.)
Unless it was done recently (and the right fluid used) I can only suggest you consider having the tranny (and diff) fluid changed. I have had the tranny/diff fluid changed in my 02's 5-speed now several times and it can make a difference in how the transmission shifts.
Now it can depend upon the fluid used. The feel after the change is different if something other than the standard fluid is used. I do not know what fluid was used at least once when I took the car to an indy to have this changed, but since then a dealer (OPC) has handled this and used Mobilube 1 75w-90 gear oil (which is one of the 2 approved oils, the other being Shell 75w-90 Transaxle oil).
Just recently in fact and this last time I'm sure the approved fluid was used. At colder (low 40's and lower) overnight temps (car sits outside the transmission is a bit balky shifting from neutral (I shift to neutral when I start the engine) to reverse in prep to backing out its parking space. It is even a bit difficult to shift into 1st but I have found that I can shift into 2nd then just release the clutch enough to pull the car forward a tiny bit then it will shift into reverse without any drama. (This is not the only car that has required this technique. One other (non-Porsche) manual equipped car required this from day one until I got rid of the car after over 120K miles.)
Out on the road proper and underway the transmission is a bit balky shifting from 1st to 2nd while dead cold and I have to give it time, don't rush/force things. Also, I make sure -- I get lazy/sloppy sometimes -- I have the clutch fully depressed.
Once warm (or in warmer weather like we were having (where I live anyhow) at least a few days ago) the shifting into reverse when cold is not as bad and the balky shifting from 1st to 2nd is hardly noticeable.
Oh, along with the transmission/diff fluid drain/refill if it hasn't been done in 2 years have the brake fluid flush/bled along with the clutch slave cylinder.
Sincerely,
Rockster.
I have been through this explanation several times before but it seems to need another go.
Older designs of gearbox usually allowed the gear lever to push the selectors into gear far enough to only stop when the selector inside cannot go any further and is fully home - as a result if you held it there in gear you could often feel the gearbox rolling round back though the gear lever shaking.
To make gearboxes feel slicker - a change was made a few years ago to stop the gearchange selector fork just before the selector was fully home - by hitting a stop plate inside the gearbox and springs and pawls in the synchromesh - pushed the selector that last small distance home - reducing wear on the selector fork and ring and making the gearbox feel nicer (which they do).
For some reason we discovered through careful measurement that something like 4 out of 5 gearboxes that we have apart for Boxsters and 996's were not manufactured or assembled quite right and this resulted in the stop plate holding back the selector movement by a greater or lesser amount - especially for second gear. It meant that the selector stopped being moved by the gear change lever quite a long way before it was fully home leaving the pawls and springs to complete the shift further than was originally planned. Usually 1st gear then moved further than necessary so worked OK.
When they are new - the selector still moves far enough to fully engage through the pawl spring movement - but as the gearbox wears the selector arm, forks and selector rings gradually move less far until eventually 2nd gear just doesn't quite go in and the springs no longer have enough power to push the selector that last little distance and it sits in a kind of no man's land neither out nor in gear and as soon as power is applied it feels like it jumps out (but actually it was never home in the first place).
Changing parts for new gets back the original clearances and stronger springs 9because they are new) but they would still probably be positioned wrongly (and eventually the problem could return). But if the parts are not to worn - usually just re-setting the stop plate allows all the original parts to work perfectly again (and obviously costs a lot less).
If you think you have this problem - the best way to test this out is to bang the gear lever hard and fast into second (so the inertia allows it to move further under it's own momentum allowing the springs to do their job still) - if it then stays firmly in second whatever else you do throttle wise - then the occasions when you thought it popped back out were actually because it was never in - in the first place - and this stop adjustment may well cure all permanently.
Baz
Older designs of gearbox usually allowed the gear lever to push the selectors into gear far enough to only stop when the selector inside cannot go any further and is fully home - as a result if you held it there in gear you could often feel the gearbox rolling round back though the gear lever shaking.
To make gearboxes feel slicker - a change was made a few years ago to stop the gearchange selector fork just before the selector was fully home - by hitting a stop plate inside the gearbox and springs and pawls in the synchromesh - pushed the selector that last small distance home - reducing wear on the selector fork and ring and making the gearbox feel nicer (which they do).
For some reason we discovered through careful measurement that something like 4 out of 5 gearboxes that we have apart for Boxsters and 996's were not manufactured or assembled quite right and this resulted in the stop plate holding back the selector movement by a greater or lesser amount - especially for second gear. It meant that the selector stopped being moved by the gear change lever quite a long way before it was fully home leaving the pawls and springs to complete the shift further than was originally planned. Usually 1st gear then moved further than necessary so worked OK.
When they are new - the selector still moves far enough to fully engage through the pawl spring movement - but as the gearbox wears the selector arm, forks and selector rings gradually move less far until eventually 2nd gear just doesn't quite go in and the springs no longer have enough power to push the selector that last little distance and it sits in a kind of no man's land neither out nor in gear and as soon as power is applied it feels like it jumps out (but actually it was never home in the first place).
Changing parts for new gets back the original clearances and stronger springs 9because they are new) but they would still probably be positioned wrongly (and eventually the problem could return). But if the parts are not to worn - usually just re-setting the stop plate allows all the original parts to work perfectly again (and obviously costs a lot less).
If you think you have this problem - the best way to test this out is to bang the gear lever hard and fast into second (so the inertia allows it to move further under it's own momentum allowing the springs to do their job still) - if it then stays firmly in second whatever else you do throttle wise - then the occasions when you thought it popped back out were actually because it was never in - in the first place - and this stop adjustment may well cure all permanently.
Baz
Thanks Baz, I knew I'd read that somewhere in all my pre-purchase trawling but I'd failed to re-find it to re-post on here - guessing it was over on your site then!
Re the other suggestions of oil changes, this helped a lot on mine, but it was a bit stiff on all gears with no suggestion of jumping out - nor any suggestion in the receipts of the oil ever having been changed in 11 years!
Cheers
Martin
Re the other suggestions of oil changes, this helped a lot on mine, but it was a bit stiff on all gears with no suggestion of jumping out - nor any suggestion in the receipts of the oil ever having been changed in 11 years!
Cheers
Martin
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff