High mileage 944 as daily driver
Discussion
I've wanted a 944 for ages (hence my username) and had always planned to get one as secondary to my main car. I've always need a large estate for family duties and my wife has had a small run about. There is a possibility that my wife would now need to drive the bigger car daily and that leaves me the option of getting anything to use a daily car.
So, I am considering a 944. The only ones in my budget are knocking around the 90-100K mark in terms of mileage. I would love a turbo but it seems more likely it would be an S2.
Is it a bad idea to try and use this every day? Looking at what is out there they seem to be good for 150K plus and it would be a few years before I reached that. I am a competent mechanic so maintenance will be ok. But is is going to cost a fortune and break down all the time?
So, I am considering a 944. The only ones in my budget are knocking around the 90-100K mark in terms of mileage. I would love a turbo but it seems more likely it would be an S2.
Is it a bad idea to try and use this every day? Looking at what is out there they seem to be good for 150K plus and it would be a few years before I reached that. I am a competent mechanic so maintenance will be ok. But is is going to cost a fortune and break down all the time?
100K isn't high on a 944 by any means. In fact, unless it's a truly pampered concours museum piece I'd go for a regularly-used car with higher miles every time.
As a daily driver? Plenty do, and the S2 makes sense from the range. So long as the recent history is good, you learn the weak points to look out for and pre-empt problems you should be fine. It might not be as reliable as a new car, but pound-for-pound it should be far more fun.
Look for brake caliper overhaul, new fuel and brake lines, PAS having been looked at, new clutch, and head gasket. All likely to be getting near due if not recent so any are nice to have. Essential is a recent belt change (four years is the max. life), preferably with water pump and oil seals, rollers etc. Timing chain and associated bits on an S2 as well. Beyond that, change things like DME relay, leads, rotor arm and dis cap for new, and possibly fuel pressure regulator as they seem to be failing a lot now, and you should have most things covered.
As a daily driver? Plenty do, and the S2 makes sense from the range. So long as the recent history is good, you learn the weak points to look out for and pre-empt problems you should be fine. It might not be as reliable as a new car, but pound-for-pound it should be far more fun.
Look for brake caliper overhaul, new fuel and brake lines, PAS having been looked at, new clutch, and head gasket. All likely to be getting near due if not recent so any are nice to have. Essential is a recent belt change (four years is the max. life), preferably with water pump and oil seals, rollers etc. Timing chain and associated bits on an S2 as well. Beyond that, change things like DME relay, leads, rotor arm and dis cap for new, and possibly fuel pressure regulator as they seem to be failing a lot now, and you should have most things covered.
Haha. 100K is that all....
Just spent today cruising Somerset (ok we might have been shopping.) in my 1990 G 944 turbo.
On the A roads its just great and properly quick (its been tweaked a bit) but a bit noisey on the motorway for a long trip (ok that may have been the exhaust). Got stuck in a bit of traffic in WSM and watched the temperature gauge go up a bit and down a bit but really just ignored it as it doesn't go wrong very often.
Oh the point - speedo reads 238295 (ish)
Go and look, buy on condition and ignore the numbers on the speedo. At 100K it will have had belts, waterpump (hopefully) possibly a clutch (if not it will need one soon ish) and the bodywork may be great or full of holes. Its relatively unassociated to the numbers on the speedo.
If I'd had the chance to buy my car with 100k less on the clock would I have preferred it, well yes I imagine I would, but as for ownership I doubt the numbers on the speedo have made any difference at all to the costs or the experience. Its 22 years old after all.
Get yourself over to PCGB and/or Tipec for the lowdown. And whatever Paul said will be true.
Now where's Fatty for some backup?
Just spent today cruising Somerset (ok we might have been shopping.) in my 1990 G 944 turbo.
On the A roads its just great and properly quick (its been tweaked a bit) but a bit noisey on the motorway for a long trip (ok that may have been the exhaust). Got stuck in a bit of traffic in WSM and watched the temperature gauge go up a bit and down a bit but really just ignored it as it doesn't go wrong very often.
Oh the point - speedo reads 238295 (ish)
Go and look, buy on condition and ignore the numbers on the speedo. At 100K it will have had belts, waterpump (hopefully) possibly a clutch (if not it will need one soon ish) and the bodywork may be great or full of holes. Its relatively unassociated to the numbers on the speedo.
If I'd had the chance to buy my car with 100k less on the clock would I have preferred it, well yes I imagine I would, but as for ownership I doubt the numbers on the speedo have made any difference at all to the costs or the experience. Its 22 years old after all.
Get yourself over to PCGB and/or Tipec for the lowdown. And whatever Paul said will be true.
Now where's Fatty for some backup?
blade7 said:
Cars wear out if you use them, when I was looking the worn out cars needed thousands more spending to put them right than the dry stored lightly used cars. 
We'll all have different opinions. Mine is that a car that's been used vary rarely or not at all for a few years will need things doing to it. Rubber parts will harden and you'll be in to oil seals etc. as I was with my first 944. That had done 900 miles in 2 years, but over 800 were in one trip just before I bought it. The cars that are regularly used (not necessarily stratospheric miles but at least a few thousan per year), and are meticulously serviced, are going to be a better buy in most cases. Get one that's had the money spent on it, not one that needs £000s spending.
Also, if you are after a daily driver I'd spend the money on a car with good mechanicals and not worry about it being a bit scruffy. That perfect dry-stored low-miles car will command a premium, and you'll lose that money as soon as you rack up the miles and get a few stonechips and parking dinks.
200K up and used as a daily driver/main family car for two years, £1800 is a well cheap family run about. Even if the thing dies in two years it is still about as cheap motoring as you can get.
I would rather have a regularly used example than a garage queen, sitting around doesn't do cars any good. I wouldn't worry about mileage go on condition.
I would rather have a regularly used example than a garage queen, sitting around doesn't do cars any good. I wouldn't worry about mileage go on condition.
When I had mine I got it at 130K, ran it to 160K, mostly just on normal servicing - only breakdown item was the old hamilton and palmer immobiliser slowly died, one that was pulled out an replaced with a modern alarm - no probs (and slightly cheaper insurance).
Mine lived outside all year round, battery could go down a bit with really cold nights after a weekend of non use, but a booster pack was enough to get it going.
Much more fun to drive, obviously you look cooler and my motorway mpg was usually between 28-32!
Mine lived outside all year round, battery could go down a bit with really cold nights after a weekend of non use, but a booster pack was enough to get it going.
Much more fun to drive, obviously you look cooler and my motorway mpg was usually between 28-32!
Dont see any reason why a 944 couldnt be a nice daily use vehicle.
In my opinion the bodywork will be the thing that would kill a 944 before any engine or mileage related problems.
The sills are notorious on the 944 and its a fairly major expense to have them prepared properly.
If you can afford a nicely looked after, garaged, low miles car then great - but I wouldnt be afraid of one thats seen a few miles either!
Very capable car, quite easily improved for track use should you wish - and there will always be a ready supply of spare bits should something need replacing!
It had crossed my mind to try and put my ol' 944 track slag back on the road, but it would also need reregistering over where I am and then getting it past the local MOT equivalent - and with a stripped interior, lowered suspension, buckets and harnesses and sticky rubber - I dont fancy my chances of getting the conformity papers passed their eagle eyes
Anyway - Like I say. the good thing is there are plenty out there which have failed bodily, so if you buy one with lunar miles and the engines tired, its not going to be horendous to source a replacement and carry on enjoying the classic handling!
In my opinion the bodywork will be the thing that would kill a 944 before any engine or mileage related problems.
The sills are notorious on the 944 and its a fairly major expense to have them prepared properly.
If you can afford a nicely looked after, garaged, low miles car then great - but I wouldnt be afraid of one thats seen a few miles either!
Very capable car, quite easily improved for track use should you wish - and there will always be a ready supply of spare bits should something need replacing!
It had crossed my mind to try and put my ol' 944 track slag back on the road, but it would also need reregistering over where I am and then getting it past the local MOT equivalent - and with a stripped interior, lowered suspension, buckets and harnesses and sticky rubber - I dont fancy my chances of getting the conformity papers passed their eagle eyes
Anyway - Like I say. the good thing is there are plenty out there which have failed bodily, so if you buy one with lunar miles and the engines tired, its not going to be horendous to source a replacement and carry on enjoying the classic handling!
pauljmcnulty said:
It sometimes helps new people if you go over old ground, not everyone's an expert like you and me, Blade!
Speak for yourself 
. My only experience is with Turbo's, there's probably the odd "diamond in the rough" but my extended search starting with £3-4k cars turned up nothing but moneypits, and there were quite a few £5-6k hounds as well. This was 4-5 years ago and perhaps you can get a decent Lux or S2 for £3-4k now but I wouldn't consider a budget 944 unless I was handy with the spanners.Hi Chaps, sorry for the delay DKL!
The answer is Yes!
I do 1000-2,500 a month in mine, paid £2,600 for it at 194,000 miles. It was the scruffiest looking, highest mileage one I saw, but had the best recent provenance and history, was already used as an everyday car and had a beguiling honesty about it.
3 years and 36,000 miles in (now showing 230,350 miles) it has cost me 15.2p a mile in maintenance and depreciation (compares to 30.6p for my Wife's 535D Touring to do the same mileage in 15 months)
Keep on top of the maintenace, and watch the fluids like a Hawk, any change in fluid levels/colour will give you early warning of any issues
The answer is Yes!
I do 1000-2,500 a month in mine, paid £2,600 for it at 194,000 miles. It was the scruffiest looking, highest mileage one I saw, but had the best recent provenance and history, was already used as an everyday car and had a beguiling honesty about it.
3 years and 36,000 miles in (now showing 230,350 miles) it has cost me 15.2p a mile in maintenance and depreciation (compares to 30.6p for my Wife's 535D Touring to do the same mileage in 15 months)
Keep on top of the maintenace, and watch the fluids like a Hawk, any change in fluid levels/colour will give you early warning of any issues
I am with Blade on this, they are old cars even if you find a decent one its pot luck if it will let you down so you just can't rely on them IMHO as daily drivers. Our 968 for example is off the road again, drivers door handle lever broke from metal fatigue! and the fan relay has gone so its sat with the relay pulled to stop the fans running. These are old cars silly little faults due to age and mileage are a given.
...And a colleague's 5 year old Kia 4x4 has just lunched an auto Gearbox on its way to a meeting, Kia quoted over £5k...he got it done by an indy for a mere £2,500....
Buying any car is a lottery and at some point may stick it's wand into your wallet and give it a thorough emptying...
Buying any car is a lottery and at some point may stick it's wand into your wallet and give it a thorough emptying...
Its use as a daily I supppose depends on what you are doing. My journey is 10 miles each way and yes I'm very happy to use the 944. Equally I have other cars so it isn't a diaster if I jump in and it won't start but to be fair I've had this car 3 years and it hasn't stranded me yet.
However if it was an only car and I was travelling hundreds of miles daily and work depended on it then no I don't think I'd risk it unless I'd completely rebuilt it and that probably wouldn't be practical as it would have to include daft things like door locks (as above) etc.
Modern cars do break down but I suppose a newer part on a newer car is less likely to give up due to age and failure.
I'm not likely to ever be in this work situation so I don't need to know the latest Focus or Mondeo models.
However if it was an only car and I was travelling hundreds of miles daily and work depended on it then no I don't think I'd risk it unless I'd completely rebuilt it and that probably wouldn't be practical as it would have to include daft things like door locks (as above) etc.
Modern cars do break down but I suppose a newer part on a newer car is less likely to give up due to age and failure.
I'm not likely to ever be in this work situation so I don't need to know the latest Focus or Mondeo models.
Bought mine 3.5 years ago with 180K on the clock for £1800.
Has now donw 203K and two track days, and in that time I have done my own oil changes, had a new set of rear discs/pads, four tyres, hand brake button, windscreen washer pump and a small bit of welding on the sills. Not much for a 25 year old car.
Used every day and family holidays to Cornwall from Yorkshire, trips to the cotswolds and all over the country, wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere.
It is tired but at that cost it is peanuts.
As a comparison, I bought a two year old Mondeo for £9.5K ran for ten years and scrapped for £500 at 160K miles. I would consider that as pretty cheap and cost me almost £1k a year in depreciation.
The 944 has already beaten that figure so if it dies tomorrow I am quids in. Should last until June though when the MOT is due, and then if it fails, worth plenty in parts.
Go for it
Has now donw 203K and two track days, and in that time I have done my own oil changes, had a new set of rear discs/pads, four tyres, hand brake button, windscreen washer pump and a small bit of welding on the sills. Not much for a 25 year old car.
Used every day and family holidays to Cornwall from Yorkshire, trips to the cotswolds and all over the country, wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere.
It is tired but at that cost it is peanuts.
As a comparison, I bought a two year old Mondeo for £9.5K ran for ten years and scrapped for £500 at 160K miles. I would consider that as pretty cheap and cost me almost £1k a year in depreciation.
The 944 has already beaten that figure so if it dies tomorrow I am quids in. Should last until June though when the MOT is due, and then if it fails, worth plenty in parts.
Go for it
When I used to do mega-miles (for me anyway - 35k a year) I ran old SAABs that I bought at 100k and ran up to 150k and threw away. I used to work on the basis that I would have one major breakdown/stranding a year which worked out about right, although I did have some 'limp-home' issues as well (such as the clutch release failing on the M5 near Bristol and driving it back the 160 miles to the specialist in St Neots!)
These cars are so well- engineered that items that wear out on a modern car in 70,000 miles last 150-200,000 miles on ours.
My driving is sporadic, I will be driving 200 miles tomorrow and 320 miles on Wednesday, but then it might be sat on the drive or only do a few short journeys over the weekend and spend a week sat in the station car park every day.
I used it for the tip run yesterday, I love seeing people's faces when you turn up with it full of rubbish
If I had it as a third car I wouldn't have a 944, I would have something totally stupid and impractical....
These cars are so well- engineered that items that wear out on a modern car in 70,000 miles last 150-200,000 miles on ours.
My driving is sporadic, I will be driving 200 miles tomorrow and 320 miles on Wednesday, but then it might be sat on the drive or only do a few short journeys over the weekend and spend a week sat in the station car park every day.
I used it for the tip run yesterday, I love seeing people's faces when you turn up with it full of rubbish
If I had it as a third car I wouldn't have a 944, I would have something totally stupid and impractical....
Thanks for the tips chaps. So it seems condition and provenance are more important than numbers on the odometer.
I don't mind getting a solid one which is a bit scruffy as I can spend some time cleaning it up.
It seems a turbo is out of reach as the ones in budget seem more than a but tatty, but plenty of reasonable S2s about.
I don't mind getting a solid one which is a bit scruffy as I can spend some time cleaning it up.
It seems a turbo is out of reach as the ones in budget seem more than a but tatty, but plenty of reasonable S2s about.
I'm in the 230k club as well with my new S2 I'm doing 15-20k a year at the moment, but that's a job for a 3 series diesel (unless someone else is paying for the fuel). If you ask - "what 3-5k car will be a reliable daily driver?" then there are plenty of other options, but driving a 944 is always an event
In 2004 I left my job and went self-employed - I bought a £900 924S, which was faultless for a year and a half. It might have been round the clock twice, but was still happy being hammered around Donington. I probably spent the same again tidying it up, but that was a great way of learning about the cars.
Something else to consider - do you have a local garage who knows about these cars? - having someone nearby is a great help in keeping the car on the road.
Fundamentally, I think these cars will go on for ever - I suspect there will be lots of minor irritations in the cheaper cars - worn seats, sunroof faults, leaks, slow or non-working electric windows, scruffy trim, rattles & squeaks. Find a car without these sorts of problems, and it's possible that the owner will have kept on top of the other jobs as well.
I'm doing 15-20k a year at the moment, but that's a job for a 3 series diesel (unless someone else is paying for the fuel). If you ask - "what 3-5k car will be a reliable daily driver?" then there are plenty of other options, but driving a 944 is always an event In 2004 I left my job and went self-employed - I bought a £900 924S, which was faultless for a year and a half. It might have been round the clock twice, but was still happy being hammered around Donington. I probably spent the same again tidying it up, but that was a great way of learning about the cars.
Something else to consider - do you have a local garage who knows about these cars? - having someone nearby is a great help in keeping the car on the road.
Fundamentally, I think these cars will go on for ever - I suspect there will be lots of minor irritations in the cheaper cars - worn seats, sunroof faults, leaks, slow or non-working electric windows, scruffy trim, rattles & squeaks. Find a car without these sorts of problems, and it's possible that the owner will have kept on top of the other jobs as well.
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