Discussion
I paddle and always in Manual mode!
Manual Mode findings . . .
normal - gives nice smooth changes and a lazy throttle
sport - sharper throttle response and quicker changes - over 4000rpm the auto-blip comes in!
sport-plus - fast changes - at full throttle can be very harsh up and down - beautifully addictive auto-blip over 4k
khushy
Manual Mode findings . . .
normal - gives nice smooth changes and a lazy throttle
sport - sharper throttle response and quicker changes - over 4000rpm the auto-blip comes in!
sport-plus - fast changes - at full throttle can be very harsh up and down - beautifully addictive auto-blip over 4k
khushy
With my short time (long weekend) with a PDK Boxster i had it in Auto most of time. It had those steering wheel buttons which are not as good as paddles so thats probably the reason why. I drive a MAN truck a lot with a 12 speed semi-auto gearbox with tip type gearshift and that always sits in Auto. I think after the novelty wears off it will stay in Auto when you get it.
I've had mine a few weeks now and use both auto and manual modes. I was initially concerned that the non-flappy paddle wheel would be difficult but I'm now fully in tune with it and just use my right hand to change up or down. Sport plus mode is fun for very short periods in full attack mode but would be very wearing for prolonged use. Sport mode is a good compromise as it holds lower gears longer and sharpens the throttle. I am still waiting for my first track outing but expect it to be quicker than manual because there is less to concentrate on so I should get braking points and stearing imputs right more of the time.
BubblesNW said:
I've had mine a few weeks now and use both auto and manual modes. I was initially concerned that the non-flappy paddle wheel would be difficult but I'm now fully in tune with it and just use my right hand to change up or down. Sport plus mode is fun for very short periods in full attack mode but would be very wearing for prolonged use. Sport mode is a good compromise as it holds lower gears longer and sharpens the throttle. I am still waiting for my first track outing but expect it to be quicker than manual because there is less to concentrate on so I should get braking points and stearing imputs right more of the time.
if you use manual and normal mode (it learns your throttle style anyway) you can get a tiny-winy bit of clutch slip going down the box, which is (engine braking) useful - sport and sport+ its just BANG and you're in!Worth remembering on a twisty track!
khushy
khushy said:
if you use manual and normal mode (it learns your throttle style anyway) you can get a tiny-winy bit of clutch slip going down the box, which is (engine braking) useful - sport and sport+ its just BANG and you're in!
Worth remembering on a twisty track!
khushy
I've read about the car learning your throttle style and not sure what to make of it, does the car's brain anticpate what you're going to do next?Worth remembering on a twisty track!
khushy
Another nice trick I was told was if you are cruising in Normal mode and know you will need a lower gear soon, stamp very quickly on the accelerator and release - it will change down to the lowest available gear instantly and hold it ready for you to accelerate. No need for the buttons in this case.
I think PDK defines what's meant by mixed feelings - sometimes it does what it says on the tin, others it's totally infuriating. As I've also discovered after 2 years, I can't 'bond' with my 997S.2 PDK car the way I did with the manual 997S.1 I used to own. If PDK is one thing above all else, it's so totally uninvolving that it practically relegates the car to 'white goods' status. Yes, seriously.
When I first got the car, I couldn't believe how recalcitrant the bl**dy 'box was in Normal Auto. FFS, it puts you in 7th by 40mph like some ancient GM slushbox (and this in a so-called proper sports car)! Then, for the most part, it just doesn't want to know about dropping a gear. This is so infuriating, you end-up prodding the throttle to get a response at which point it drops 4 gears at once, revs the nuts off the motor and makes you look a right twunt. Add to that the yawn-inducing throttle map, the gearchange logic that changes UP when you push the throttle a little to accelerate and you have a fun-destroying joke that ruins the car. Put it in manual mode and at least you have a little control over when the car changes gear, but..... Ask for an upshift at full throttle (right paddle) at 7000 rpm in 2nd and the computer is so slow to respond that the car hits the limiter before the change happens. The change is fast, yes, but the computer is ridiculously slow to proces the request into the change. Use kickdown and the computer takes charge again, performing the upshifts for you even in manual. So what's the point of manual? Insane.
In Sport mode, things do come alive a little and at least Auto mode hangs on to gears somewhat longer (apart from 1st that it hangs on to to silly rpm even at part throttle making you look a twunt again)! So it's better? Errr no. Now it starts to infuriate again. If you end up in traffic, the super-hi-IQ 'adaptive' gearchange program turns out to have learning difficulties. It will leave you in 3rd at 30-35 mph all day when you want 4th. Use the manual to get 4th and the damned thing changes down again a minute later. Bung it back in Normal and you get 6th (and then forget it's in Normal so the car won't accelerate when you ask it to - until it drops 4 ratios as described above and you end-up swearing again). Max attack in Sport using kickdown is as ruthlessly-efficient a way of accelerating the car as possible, yes. Accepted. Every change is lightning quick, bang on the red line and kicks you in the ass as the change happens. Great. At first. Then it's same-old, same old, done it once (twice, ten, twenty times, whatever). Every time exactly the same as last time. Zero involvement. Computer game. No challenge. Yawn. In a manual, you can always do just that little bit better than last time, shave off those few hundredths, aim for perfection, but not with the computerised nanny box.
Sport plus - big deal. Changes-up at the red line, changes down at 4000rpm. So it keeps the rpms between 4000rpm and the red line. Not exactly rocket science.
Launch control - Awesome. Then you never use it again.
Finally, the PDK might change gear very fast, but I don't believe the car's performance is better than a manual. Several magazines across the world have done identical 0-60 times in manual 997S.2 cars as PDK ones so launch control doesn't cut it. Then there's the fact that the car is heavier and only produces the same power and torque. The extra mass has to be accelerated, turned and braked by the same engine, chassis and brakes (and it's in the one place the 911 needs it least - at the back). As the Americans would say - 'Go figure'.
Would I go back to a manual? Have a guess!
PS. The one place PDK does makes sense for me is on Turbo cars, where it allows crazy acceleration as the boost is maintained during upshifts - totally in keeping with the Turbo's ethos of ferocious straight line speed.
When I first got the car, I couldn't believe how recalcitrant the bl**dy 'box was in Normal Auto. FFS, it puts you in 7th by 40mph like some ancient GM slushbox (and this in a so-called proper sports car)! Then, for the most part, it just doesn't want to know about dropping a gear. This is so infuriating, you end-up prodding the throttle to get a response at which point it drops 4 gears at once, revs the nuts off the motor and makes you look a right twunt. Add to that the yawn-inducing throttle map, the gearchange logic that changes UP when you push the throttle a little to accelerate and you have a fun-destroying joke that ruins the car. Put it in manual mode and at least you have a little control over when the car changes gear, but..... Ask for an upshift at full throttle (right paddle) at 7000 rpm in 2nd and the computer is so slow to respond that the car hits the limiter before the change happens. The change is fast, yes, but the computer is ridiculously slow to proces the request into the change. Use kickdown and the computer takes charge again, performing the upshifts for you even in manual. So what's the point of manual? Insane.
In Sport mode, things do come alive a little and at least Auto mode hangs on to gears somewhat longer (apart from 1st that it hangs on to to silly rpm even at part throttle making you look a twunt again)! So it's better? Errr no. Now it starts to infuriate again. If you end up in traffic, the super-hi-IQ 'adaptive' gearchange program turns out to have learning difficulties. It will leave you in 3rd at 30-35 mph all day when you want 4th. Use the manual to get 4th and the damned thing changes down again a minute later. Bung it back in Normal and you get 6th (and then forget it's in Normal so the car won't accelerate when you ask it to - until it drops 4 ratios as described above and you end-up swearing again). Max attack in Sport using kickdown is as ruthlessly-efficient a way of accelerating the car as possible, yes. Accepted. Every change is lightning quick, bang on the red line and kicks you in the ass as the change happens. Great. At first. Then it's same-old, same old, done it once (twice, ten, twenty times, whatever). Every time exactly the same as last time. Zero involvement. Computer game. No challenge. Yawn. In a manual, you can always do just that little bit better than last time, shave off those few hundredths, aim for perfection, but not with the computerised nanny box.
Sport plus - big deal. Changes-up at the red line, changes down at 4000rpm. So it keeps the rpms between 4000rpm and the red line. Not exactly rocket science.
Launch control - Awesome. Then you never use it again.
Finally, the PDK might change gear very fast, but I don't believe the car's performance is better than a manual. Several magazines across the world have done identical 0-60 times in manual 997S.2 cars as PDK ones so launch control doesn't cut it. Then there's the fact that the car is heavier and only produces the same power and torque. The extra mass has to be accelerated, turned and braked by the same engine, chassis and brakes (and it's in the one place the 911 needs it least - at the back). As the Americans would say - 'Go figure'.
Would I go back to a manual? Have a guess!
PS. The one place PDK does makes sense for me is on Turbo cars, where it allows crazy acceleration as the boost is maintained during upshifts - totally in keeping with the Turbo's ethos of ferocious straight line speed.
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Wednesday 23 May 17:10
BubblesNW said:
Another nice trick I was told was if you are cruising in Normal mode and know you will need a lower gear soon, stamp very quickly on the accelerator and release - it will change down to the lowest available gear instantly and hold it ready for you to accelerate. No need for the buttons in this case.
^STPD^Ian_UK1 said:
I think PDK defines what's meant by mixed feelings - sometimes it does what it says on the tin, others it's totally infuriating. As I've also discovered after 2 years, I can't 'bond' with my 997S.2 PDK car the way I did with the manual 997S.1 I used to own. If PDK is one thing above all else, it's so totally uninvolving that it practically relegates the car to 'white goods' status. Yes, seriously.
When I first got the car, I couldn't believe how recalcitrant the bl**dy 'box was in Normal Auto. FFS, it puts you in 7th by 40mph like some ancient GM slushbox (and this in a so-called proper sports car)! Then, for the most part, it just doesn't want to know about dropping a gear. This is so infuriating, you end-up prodding the throttle to get a response at which point it drops 4 gears at once, revs the nuts off the motor and makes you look a right twunt. Add to that the yawn-inducing throttle map, the gearchange logic that changes UP when you push the throttle a little to accelerate and you have a fun-destroying joke that ruins the car. Put it in manual mode and at least you have a little control over when the car changes gear, but..... Ask for an upshift at full throttle (right paddle) at 7000 rpm in 2nd and the computer is so slow to respond that the car hits the limiter before the change happens. The change is fast, yes, but the computer is ridiculously slow to proces the request into the change. Use kickdown and the computer takes charge again, performing the upshifts for you even in manual. So what's the point of manual? Insane.
In Sport mode, things do come alive a little and at least Auto mode hangs on to gears somewhat longer (apart from 1st that it hangs on to to silly rpm even at part throttle making you look a twunt again)! So it's better? Errr no. Now it starts to infuriate again. If you end up in traffic, the super-hi-IQ 'adaptive' gearchange program turns out to have learning difficulties. It will leave you in 3rd at 30-35 mph all day when you want 4th. Use the manual to get 4th and the damned thing changes down again a minute later. Bung it back in Normal and you get 6th (and then forget it's in Normal so the car won't accelerate when you ask it to - until it drops 4 ratios as described above and you end-up swearing again). Max attack in Sport using kickdown is as ruthlessly-efficient a way of accelerating the car as possible, yes. Accepted. Every change is lightning quick, bang on the red line and kicks you in the ass as the change happens. Great. At first. Then it's same-old, same old, done it once (twice, ten, twenty times, whatever). Every time exactly the same as last time. Zero involvement. Computer game. No challenge. Yawn. In a manual, you can always do just that little bit better than last time, shave off those few hundredths, aim for perfection, but not with the computerised nanny box.
Sport plus - big deal. Changes-up at the red line, changes down at 4000rpm. So it keeps the rpms between 4000rpm and the red line. Not exactly rocket science.
Launch control - Awesome. Then you never use it again.
Finally, the PDK might change gear very fast, but I don't believe the car's performance is better than a manual. Several magazines across the world have done identical 0-60 times in manual 997S.2 cars as PDK ones so launch control doesn't cut it. Then there's the fact that the car is heavier and only produces the same power and torque. The extra mass has to be accelerated, turned and braked by the same engine, chassis and brakes (and it's in the one place the 911 needs it least - at the back). As the Americans would say - 'Go figure'.
Would I go back to a manual? Have a guess!
PS. The one place PDK does makes sense for me is on Turbo cars, where it allows crazy acceleration as the boost is maintained during upshifts - totally in keeping with the Turbo's ethos of ferocious straight line speed.
Fascinating insight Ian, thanks for that. It corresponds exactly to my own experience in (allbeit limited) test drives.When I first got the car, I couldn't believe how recalcitrant the bl**dy 'box was in Normal Auto. FFS, it puts you in 7th by 40mph like some ancient GM slushbox (and this in a so-called proper sports car)! Then, for the most part, it just doesn't want to know about dropping a gear. This is so infuriating, you end-up prodding the throttle to get a response at which point it drops 4 gears at once, revs the nuts off the motor and makes you look a right twunt. Add to that the yawn-inducing throttle map, the gearchange logic that changes UP when you push the throttle a little to accelerate and you have a fun-destroying joke that ruins the car. Put it in manual mode and at least you have a little control over when the car changes gear, but..... Ask for an upshift at full throttle (right paddle) at 7000 rpm in 2nd and the computer is so slow to respond that the car hits the limiter before the change happens. The change is fast, yes, but the computer is ridiculously slow to proces the request into the change. Use kickdown and the computer takes charge again, performing the upshifts for you even in manual. So what's the point of manual? Insane.
In Sport mode, things do come alive a little and at least Auto mode hangs on to gears somewhat longer (apart from 1st that it hangs on to to silly rpm even at part throttle making you look a twunt again)! So it's better? Errr no. Now it starts to infuriate again. If you end up in traffic, the super-hi-IQ 'adaptive' gearchange program turns out to have learning difficulties. It will leave you in 3rd at 30-35 mph all day when you want 4th. Use the manual to get 4th and the damned thing changes down again a minute later. Bung it back in Normal and you get 6th (and then forget it's in Normal so the car won't accelerate when you ask it to - until it drops 4 ratios as described above and you end-up swearing again). Max attack in Sport using kickdown is as ruthlessly-efficient a way of accelerating the car as possible, yes. Accepted. Every change is lightning quick, bang on the red line and kicks you in the ass as the change happens. Great. At first. Then it's same-old, same old, done it once (twice, ten, twenty times, whatever). Every time exactly the same as last time. Zero involvement. Computer game. No challenge. Yawn. In a manual, you can always do just that little bit better than last time, shave off those few hundredths, aim for perfection, but not with the computerised nanny box.
Sport plus - big deal. Changes-up at the red line, changes down at 4000rpm. So it keeps the rpms between 4000rpm and the red line. Not exactly rocket science.
Launch control - Awesome. Then you never use it again.
Finally, the PDK might change gear very fast, but I don't believe the car's performance is better than a manual. Several magazines across the world have done identical 0-60 times in manual 997S.2 cars as PDK ones so launch control doesn't cut it. Then there's the fact that the car is heavier and only produces the same power and torque. The extra mass has to be accelerated, turned and braked by the same engine, chassis and brakes (and it's in the one place the 911 needs it least - at the back). As the Americans would say - 'Go figure'.
Would I go back to a manual? Have a guess!
PS. The one place PDK does makes sense for me is on Turbo cars, where it allows crazy acceleration as the boost is maintained during upshifts - totally in keeping with the Turbo's ethos of ferocious straight line speed.
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Wednesday 23 May 17:10
As for blipping the throttle, isn't that one of the top automotive pleasures in a manual ? I don't want a machine to do my H&T !!!
I can see the point of PDK for inexperienced track drivers though as, as earlier suggested, allows them to keep both hands on the wheel and focus on their lines.
nickfrog said:
Ian_UK1 said:
I think PDK defines what's meant by mixed feelings - sometimes it does what it says on the tin, others it's totally infuriating. As I've also discovered after 2 years, I can't 'bond' with my 997S.2 PDK car the way I did with the manual 997S.1 I used to own. If PDK is one thing above all else, it's so totally uninvolving that it practically relegates the car to 'white goods' status. Yes, seriously.
When I first got the car, I couldn't believe how recalcitrant the bl**dy 'box was in Normal Auto. FFS, it puts you in 7th by 40mph like some ancient GM slushbox (and this in a so-called proper sports car)! Then, for the most part, it just doesn't want to know about dropping a gear. This is so infuriating, you end-up prodding the throttle to get a response at which point it drops 4 gears at once, revs the nuts off the motor and makes you look a right twunt. Add to that the yawn-inducing throttle map, the gearchange logic that changes UP when you push the throttle a little to accelerate and you have a fun-destroying joke that ruins the car. Put it in manual mode and at least you have a little control over when the car changes gear, but..... Ask for an upshift at full throttle (right paddle) at 7000 rpm in 2nd and the computer is so slow to respond that the car hits the limiter before the change happens. The change is fast, yes, but the computer is ridiculously slow to proces the request into the change. Use kickdown and the computer takes charge again, performing the upshifts for you even in manual. So what's the point of manual? Insane.
In Sport mode, things do come alive a little and at least Auto mode hangs on to gears somewhat longer (apart from 1st that it hangs on to to silly rpm even at part throttle making you look a twunt again)! So it's better? Errr no. Now it starts to infuriate again. If you end up in traffic, the super-hi-IQ 'adaptive' gearchange program turns out to have learning difficulties. It will leave you in 3rd at 30-35 mph all day when you want 4th. Use the manual to get 4th and the damned thing changes down again a minute later. Bung it back in Normal and you get 6th (and then forget it's in Normal so the car won't accelerate when you ask it to - until it drops 4 ratios as described above and you end-up swearing again). Max attack in Sport using kickdown is as ruthlessly-efficient a way of accelerating the car as possible, yes. Accepted. Every change is lightning quick, bang on the red line and kicks you in the ass as the change happens. Great. At first. Then it's same-old, same old, done it once (twice, ten, twenty times, whatever). Every time exactly the same as last time. Zero involvement. Computer game. No challenge. Yawn. In a manual, you can always do just that little bit better than last time, shave off those few hundredths, aim for perfection, but not with the computerised nanny box.
Sport plus - big deal. Changes-up at the red line, changes down at 4000rpm. So it keeps the rpms between 4000rpm and the red line. Not exactly rocket science.
Launch control - Awesome. Then you never use it again.
Finally, the PDK might change gear very fast, but I don't believe the car's performance is better than a manual. Several magazines across the world have done identical 0-60 times in manual 997S.2 cars as PDK ones so launch control doesn't cut it. Then there's the fact that the car is heavier and only produces the same power and torque. The extra mass has to be accelerated, turned and braked by the same engine, chassis and brakes (and it's in the one place the 911 needs it least - at the back). As the Americans would say - 'Go figure'.
Would I go back to a manual? Have a guess!
PS. The one place PDK does makes sense for me is on Turbo cars, where it allows crazy acceleration as the boost is maintained during upshifts - totally in keeping with the Turbo's ethos of ferocious straight line speed.
Fascinating insight Ian, thanks for that. It corresponds exactly to my own experience in (allbeit limited) test drives.When I first got the car, I couldn't believe how recalcitrant the bl**dy 'box was in Normal Auto. FFS, it puts you in 7th by 40mph like some ancient GM slushbox (and this in a so-called proper sports car)! Then, for the most part, it just doesn't want to know about dropping a gear. This is so infuriating, you end-up prodding the throttle to get a response at which point it drops 4 gears at once, revs the nuts off the motor and makes you look a right twunt. Add to that the yawn-inducing throttle map, the gearchange logic that changes UP when you push the throttle a little to accelerate and you have a fun-destroying joke that ruins the car. Put it in manual mode and at least you have a little control over when the car changes gear, but..... Ask for an upshift at full throttle (right paddle) at 7000 rpm in 2nd and the computer is so slow to respond that the car hits the limiter before the change happens. The change is fast, yes, but the computer is ridiculously slow to proces the request into the change. Use kickdown and the computer takes charge again, performing the upshifts for you even in manual. So what's the point of manual? Insane.
In Sport mode, things do come alive a little and at least Auto mode hangs on to gears somewhat longer (apart from 1st that it hangs on to to silly rpm even at part throttle making you look a twunt again)! So it's better? Errr no. Now it starts to infuriate again. If you end up in traffic, the super-hi-IQ 'adaptive' gearchange program turns out to have learning difficulties. It will leave you in 3rd at 30-35 mph all day when you want 4th. Use the manual to get 4th and the damned thing changes down again a minute later. Bung it back in Normal and you get 6th (and then forget it's in Normal so the car won't accelerate when you ask it to - until it drops 4 ratios as described above and you end-up swearing again). Max attack in Sport using kickdown is as ruthlessly-efficient a way of accelerating the car as possible, yes. Accepted. Every change is lightning quick, bang on the red line and kicks you in the ass as the change happens. Great. At first. Then it's same-old, same old, done it once (twice, ten, twenty times, whatever). Every time exactly the same as last time. Zero involvement. Computer game. No challenge. Yawn. In a manual, you can always do just that little bit better than last time, shave off those few hundredths, aim for perfection, but not with the computerised nanny box.
Sport plus - big deal. Changes-up at the red line, changes down at 4000rpm. So it keeps the rpms between 4000rpm and the red line. Not exactly rocket science.
Launch control - Awesome. Then you never use it again.
Finally, the PDK might change gear very fast, but I don't believe the car's performance is better than a manual. Several magazines across the world have done identical 0-60 times in manual 997S.2 cars as PDK ones so launch control doesn't cut it. Then there's the fact that the car is heavier and only produces the same power and torque. The extra mass has to be accelerated, turned and braked by the same engine, chassis and brakes (and it's in the one place the 911 needs it least - at the back). As the Americans would say - 'Go figure'.
Would I go back to a manual? Have a guess!
PS. The one place PDK does makes sense for me is on Turbo cars, where it allows crazy acceleration as the boost is maintained during upshifts - totally in keeping with the Turbo's ethos of ferocious straight line speed.
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Wednesday 23 May 17:10
As for blipping the throttle, isn't that one of the top automotive pleasures in a manual ? I don't want a machine to do my H&T !!!
I can see the point of PDK for inexperienced track drivers though as, as earlier suggested, allows them to keep both hands on the wheel and focus on their lines.
Edited by betternotbigger on Wednesday 23 May 19:11
There's no doubt the PDK is a great piece of kit and adoption for double clutch gearboxes seems very high for sports car manufacturers. I chose mine because i wanted a car that would be great on a 110 mile round trip on the M25 every day and would be fun on the track and for this the PDK is fabulous, gear changes are faster than a manual.
The gearbox also has some interesting tricks, so keep your foot flatdown and it automatically changes up at max revs, blip the throttle as you enter a corner and it changes down a few cogs.
On the downside, it is definitely less engaging than a manual and i no longer have a long commute so will switch back to a manual.
I'm also not convinced by the paddles - the guys at the Porsche Experience seem to prefer the switches and I can see why, when your turning the wheel the paddles turn with it so its difficult to change gear, whereas with the switches it is easier once you've got used to them (saying that i hated them and found myself continually changing down by accident).
And of course the PDK weighs more.
So I'd say, if you do a lot of motorway/traffic driving or aren't particularly interested in the driving experience the PDK is a great option and ultimately is probably fractionally faster.
If you're interested in the mechanics of driving and being "connected" to your car I'd go manual
Guy
The gearbox also has some interesting tricks, so keep your foot flatdown and it automatically changes up at max revs, blip the throttle as you enter a corner and it changes down a few cogs.
On the downside, it is definitely less engaging than a manual and i no longer have a long commute so will switch back to a manual.
I'm also not convinced by the paddles - the guys at the Porsche Experience seem to prefer the switches and I can see why, when your turning the wheel the paddles turn with it so its difficult to change gear, whereas with the switches it is easier once you've got used to them (saying that i hated them and found myself continually changing down by accident).
And of course the PDK weighs more.
So I'd say, if you do a lot of motorway/traffic driving or aren't particularly interested in the driving experience the PDK is a great option and ultimately is probably fractionally faster.
If you're interested in the mechanics of driving and being "connected" to your car I'd go manual
Guy
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