911 turbo DME report, should I be worried?
Discussion
Im about to buy a 2002 996 Turbo with 40k on the clock. I had it sent into OPC for a PPI today.
The DME readout is showing:
Number of ignitions - Range 1 - 29570 1756.3h
Number of ignitions - Range 2 - 23 1612.1h
If Im not mistaken thats type1/2 overrevs right? Type 1 not so much of an issue but what about those type 2s? The OPC were not in the slighted bit concerned about it and I really want to buy this car but feel better with some other opinions on the type 2s.
Help
Ahh, ok maybe a premauture post. The Operating hours counter shows 1757.8 hours, and am I right in thinking thats not 23 seperate instances of type 2 overrevs but and the name would suggest, 23 ignitions in an over rev situation, therefore probably not much to worry about?
The DME readout is showing:
Number of ignitions - Range 1 - 29570 1756.3h
Number of ignitions - Range 2 - 23 1612.1h
If Im not mistaken thats type1/2 overrevs right? Type 1 not so much of an issue but what about those type 2s? The OPC were not in the slighted bit concerned about it and I really want to buy this car but feel better with some other opinions on the type 2s.
Help
Ahh, ok maybe a premauture post. The Operating hours counter shows 1757.8 hours, and am I right in thinking thats not 23 seperate instances of type 2 overrevs but and the name would suggest, 23 ignitions in an over rev situation, therefore probably not much to worry about?
Edited by tezza77 on Saturday 23 June 16:15
Edited by tezza77 on Saturday 23 June 16:23
23 ignitions is under 8 revolutions of the engine (3 ignitions per), which at 8000rpm (or whatever the Range 2 threshold is) is the merest fraction of a second. It was also a well over 100 hours ago.
I'd say it's no issue whatsoever, and probably better than most 10 year old 996 Turbos, but I'd ask they've checked everything that often goes on older ones, which an OPC may see fewer of than a specialist. Also, the OPC will be focusing on the things listed on their 111 point check list, which is partly for warranty purposes and the warranty doesn't cover some of the things that commonly fail on earlier cars (e.g. corroded parts).
I'd say it's no issue whatsoever, and probably better than most 10 year old 996 Turbos, but I'd ask they've checked everything that often goes on older ones, which an OPC may see fewer of than a specialist. Also, the OPC will be focusing on the things listed on their 111 point check list, which is partly for warranty purposes and the warranty doesn't cover some of the things that commonly fail on earlier cars (e.g. corroded parts).
Yeah once I realised that it wasn't 23 separate instances of overrev I figured it was such a tiny amount of revs over the limit.
Went to the opc as they were doing the inspection and the mechanic was really helpful. Had a good look underdeath and it's really clean. Ppi picked up a couple of issues such as leaky condensor and corroded heat shields on the turbos nothing you wouldn't expect on a 10 year old car.
So chuffed that it's got a reasonably clean bill of health. Cannot wait to get my hands on it now :-)
Went to the opc as they were doing the inspection and the mechanic was really helpful. Had a good look underdeath and it's really clean. Ppi picked up a couple of issues such as leaky condensor and corroded heat shields on the turbos nothing you wouldn't expect on a 10 year old car.
So chuffed that it's got a reasonably clean bill of health. Cannot wait to get my hands on it now :-)
tezza77 said:
Yeah once I realised that it wasn't 23 separate instances of overrev I figured it was such a tiny amount of revs over the limit.
Went to the opc as they were doing the inspection and the mechanic was really helpful. Had a good look underdeath and it's really clean. Ppi picked up a couple of issues such as leaky condensor and corroded heat shields on the turbos nothing you wouldn't expect on a 10 year old car.
So chuffed that it's got a reasonably clean bill of health. Cannot wait to get my hands on it now :-)
Looks like its been thrashed fairly recently though...could be by the dealer or private seller (wherever you are buying from)...shouldn't be an issue but within the last hour of driving it has been driven aggressively. Went to the opc as they were doing the inspection and the mechanic was really helpful. Had a good look underdeath and it's really clean. Ppi picked up a couple of issues such as leaky condensor and corroded heat shields on the turbos nothing you wouldn't expect on a 10 year old car.
So chuffed that it's got a reasonably clean bill of health. Cannot wait to get my hands on it now :-)
Porkupine said:
Looks like its been thrashed fairly recently though...could be by the dealer or private seller (wherever you are buying from)...shouldn't be an issue but within the last hour of driving it has been driven aggressively.
Just as likely the OP on his test drive - easy to get caught out and hit the limiter if you've not driven one before. Not necessarily the same as "being thrashed" either. thegoose said:
Just as likely the OP on his test drive - easy to get caught out and hit the limiter if you've not driven one before. Not necessarily the same as "being thrashed" either.
I didnt actually drive it as not yet insured but the current owner took me for a good long drive and did have a couple of short but full throttle bursts but not until it was completely warm so yes, there is a big difference between that and being thrashed.I honestly think this is a good one, its immaculate, its nigh on 10 years old and hardly a mark on it. I've just been a bit twitchy and perhaps a tad paranoid but thats a good thing right
Either way im going to find out as very shortly I will be a 911 owner
thegoose said:
Just as likely the OP on his test drive - easy to get caught out and hit the limiter if you've not driven one before. Not necessarily the same as "being thrashed" either.
Seeing as you see some cars, such as the gt3 at 911v with zero recordings throughout their whole life, the fact that it has a recording I would call it being thrashed. I it was so easy tO hit range 1 why would there be some cars with nothing at all. Either way as I said range 1 is nothing to worry about. They are made to be thrashed anyway Rev range 1 at the limiter isn't particularly a bad thing in its self. "Thrashing" is an emotive word and it certainly shows that the car has been driven hard at points in its life. I tend not to get as far as the limiter on a road car but with turbos it is much easier to clip it as the power comes in a more condensed and rushed way.
Clearly the car has been given one last blast for the memory recently. We see this a lot.
The rev range 2 activity could have been a problem but as more than 100 hours have passed I think who ever did it has probably got away with it. Had the rev range 2 occurred at the same time as the last rev range 1 then I would have suggested you walk away. We have seen issues with cars showing under 100 ignitions in rev range 2.
Henry
Clearly the car has been given one last blast for the memory recently. We see this a lot.
The rev range 2 activity could have been a problem but as more than 100 hours have passed I think who ever did it has probably got away with it. Had the rev range 2 occurred at the same time as the last rev range 1 then I would have suggested you walk away. We have seen issues with cars showing under 100 ignitions in rev range 2.
Henry
tezza77 said:
Im about to buy a 2002 996 Turbo with 40k on the clock. I had it sent into OPC for a PPI today.
The DME readout is showing:
Number of ignitions - Range 1 - 29570 1756.3h
Number of ignitions - Range 2 - 23 1612.1h
If Im not mistaken thats type1/2 overrevs right? Type 1 not so much of an issue but what about those type 2s? The OPC were not in the slighted bit concerned about it and I really want to buy this car but feel better with some other opinions on the type 2s.
Help
Ahh, ok maybe a premauture post. The Operating hours counter shows 1757.8 hours, and am I right in thinking thats not 23 seperate instances of type 2 overrevs but and the name would suggest, 23 ignitions in an over rev situation, therefore probably not much to worry about?
I would suggest that the average speed might be a bit low for a car with that many range 1. 40,000 miles in 1800 hours is 22 mph. The DME readout is showing:
Number of ignitions - Range 1 - 29570 1756.3h
Number of ignitions - Range 2 - 23 1612.1h
If Im not mistaken thats type1/2 overrevs right? Type 1 not so much of an issue but what about those type 2s? The OPC were not in the slighted bit concerned about it and I really want to buy this car but feel better with some other opinions on the type 2s.
Help
Ahh, ok maybe a premauture post. The Operating hours counter shows 1757.8 hours, and am I right in thinking thats not 23 seperate instances of type 2 overrevs but and the name would suggest, 23 ignitions in an over rev situation, therefore probably not much to worry about?
Edited by tezza77 on Saturday 23 June 16:15
Edited by tezza77 on Saturday 23 June 16:23
You should be able to get the total distance covered from the DME Vehicle Data. What does that say?
Richard Hamilton said:
tezza77 said:
Im about to buy a 2002 996 Turbo with 40k on the clock. I had it sent into OPC for a PPI today.
The DME readout is showing:
Number of ignitions - Range 1 - 29570 1756.3h
Number of ignitions - Range 2 - 23 1612.1h
If Im not mistaken thats type1/2 overrevs right? Type 1 not so much of an issue but what about those type 2s? The OPC were not in the slighted bit concerned about it and I really want to buy this car but feel better with some other opinions on the type 2s.
Help
Ahh, ok maybe a premauture post. The Operating hours counter shows 1757.8 hours, and am I right in thinking thats not 23 seperate instances of type 2 overrevs but and the name would suggest, 23 ignitions in an over rev situation, therefore probably not much to worry about?
I would suggest that the average speed might be a bit low for a car with that many range 1. 40,000 miles in 1800 hours is 22 mph. The DME readout is showing:
Number of ignitions - Range 1 - 29570 1756.3h
Number of ignitions - Range 2 - 23 1612.1h
If Im not mistaken thats type1/2 overrevs right? Type 1 not so much of an issue but what about those type 2s? The OPC were not in the slighted bit concerned about it and I really want to buy this car but feel better with some other opinions on the type 2s.
Help
Ahh, ok maybe a premauture post. The Operating hours counter shows 1757.8 hours, and am I right in thinking thats not 23 seperate instances of type 2 overrevs but and the name would suggest, 23 ignitions in an over rev situation, therefore probably not much to worry about?
Edited by tezza77 on Saturday 23 June 16:15
Edited by tezza77 on Saturday 23 June 16:23
You should be able to get the total distance covered from the DME Vehicle Data. What does that say?
Or driven round town on the limited in first for a decade.......worthy of investigation.
Edited by 6C4GTS on Sunday 24th June 11:18
here's my take on this....
a porsche OPC dealer will give you a dealer warranty extension on this car if it were up for renewal if there are no rev range 4 readings and even then they have to send it in for an oil analysis. With rev range 2, they would renew the warranty on the spot. Do you think all the internet experts would know better than porsche? There are always extra-ordinary circumstances but nothing a dealer would not be able to advise.
as they say always treat internet wisdom as that....words spouted by people who you have no recourse to....
a porsche OPC dealer will give you a dealer warranty extension on this car if it were up for renewal if there are no rev range 4 readings and even then they have to send it in for an oil analysis. With rev range 2, they would renew the warranty on the spot. Do you think all the internet experts would know better than porsche? There are always extra-ordinary circumstances but nothing a dealer would not be able to advise.
as they say always treat internet wisdom as that....words spouted by people who you have no recourse to....
HokumPokum said:
here's my take on this....
a porsche OPC dealer will give you a dealer warranty extension on this car if it were up for renewal if there are no rev range 4 readings and even then they have to send it in for an oil analysis. With rev range 2, they would renew the warranty on the spot. Do you think all the internet experts would know better than porsche? There are always extra-ordinary circumstances but nothing a dealer would not be able to advise.
as they say always treat internet wisdom as that....words spouted by people who you have no recourse to....
Really? Did you read the original post? a porsche OPC dealer will give you a dealer warranty extension on this car if it were up for renewal if there are no rev range 4 readings and even then they have to send it in for an oil analysis. With rev range 2, they would renew the warranty on the spot. Do you think all the internet experts would know better than porsche? There are always extra-ordinary circumstances but nothing a dealer would not be able to advise.
as they say always treat internet wisdom as that....words spouted by people who you have no recourse to....
tezza77 said:
Im about to buy a 2002 996 Turbo with 40k on the clock. I had it sent into OPC for a PPI today.
HokumPokum said:
rev range 4 readings
HokumPokum said:
Do you think all the internet experts would know better than porsche? There are always extra-ordinary circumstances but nothing a dealer would not be able to advise.
HokumPokum said:
as they say always treat internet wisdom as that....words spouted by people who you have no recourse to....
Only rev ranges 1 and 2 on a 996, 1-6 came in with the 997.As has been said already the 996 only shows 2 rev ranges. Range 1 at the limiter, range 2 over the limiter. The later cars have 6 different ranges allowing you to see activity below, at and over the rev limiter. The topic has been done pretty regularly on here and in good detail. A search should reveal all.
The problems centre around the timing chain area.
Henry
The problems centre around the timing chain area.
Henry
HokumPokum said:
nonetheless, my original comment stands. If OPC gives a clean bill of health, it's certainly better than some internet expert.
The OP came on and asked a question, why would people not give their opinion? The majority of posts here have been reassuring for the OP, so I don't see why you think people should keep their mouths shut? If the OP didn't want to know, he wouldn't have asked. That aside, I think you're right. I would be happy to take the OPC report and buy the car.
6C4GTS said:
Oh dear clocked and thrashed!!
Or driven round town on the limited in first for a decade.......worthy of investigation.
29570 ignitions at rev range 1 (6750rpm+ on a 996T) is about 1.5 minutes on the limiter. I'm not suggesting it will have harmed the engine. Banging it against the limiter isn't really necessary to get the best out of a 996T, but the last owner(s) obviously thought it was. Maybe they had mastered the art of downshifting, but not upshifting. ;o)Or driven round town on the limited in first for a decade.......worthy of investigation.
If an OPC did the original readout, they should have been able to read the total mileage from the DME. (You can't get this figure with a Durametric). 22mph average speed seemed a bit low to me, considering the number of R1's.
All I was really suggesting was........worthy of investigation. ;o)
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