944 turbo for track car
Discussion
Hi guys
I have been looking for a fun car to play around with as a track car. I have just sold my m3 csl which was my track toy so I need something fairly quick. My everyday car is a 997tt.
I have been looking at super sports and 964's but
944 turbos look like a bit of a bargain to me. Is there a catch? Are they fun?
I would plan on lightening etc etc and in time tuning it.
Are they good track cars?
Any advice appreciated.
Cheers
I have been looking for a fun car to play around with as a track car. I have just sold my m3 csl which was my track toy so I need something fairly quick. My everyday car is a 997tt.
I have been looking at super sports and 964's but
944 turbos look like a bit of a bargain to me. Is there a catch? Are they fun?
I would plan on lightening etc etc and in time tuning it.
Are they good track cars?
Any advice appreciated.
Cheers
i am currently building a 944 turbo track car. they have an awsome chassis and are great track cars! cornering speeds can be immense with the right suspension setup. 300hp is easy from the turbo with simple mods, which makes for a quick track car, good weight distibution aswell due to the gearbox being in the back.
944 turbos will do nothing but rise in price aswell which is always a bonus!
944 turbos will do nothing but rise in price aswell which is always a bonus!
They're great fun to drive and emminently tunable. Either a 220 or a 250 car can be quickly wound up towards 300bhp but I'd sort the suspension first as it will make far more difference to your enjoyment than just going more quickly in a straight line.
There are cracking cars out there for not much money and with a few changes you'll be lapping (nearly) as quickly as you could in your 997 but for a whole lot less money.
There are cracking cars out there for not much money and with a few changes you'll be lapping (nearly) as quickly as you could in your 997 but for a whole lot less money.
pauljmcnulty said:
You can buy well-built track cars, or even race cars, for silly money at the moment. Far less than the cost of completing a project from scratch, unless that's part of the fun for you.
As Paul sayshttp://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3975547.htm
no associtaion etc.
ruebdo said:
Thanks guys. To me part of the fun is building it how I want.
So there are no downsides, within reason?
Pretty much only down to cost, frustration, more cost, more frustration! So there are no downsides, within reason?
I've never gone for track cars, I can't afford it, but have watched plenty of projects over the last 8 years of 944 ownership. And been driven around in many of them.
I think it would be safe to say that all the serious projects have been well over £10k, most nearer £20K. Arguably, most have been less than perfect when finished, or never finished and sold on at a huge loss. Whilst not wishing to criticise them, as you say it's part of the fun to build the thing, one owner had a properly built race 944 that won the season first time out. I don't know all the costs, but I'd guess that the price for the car wasn't far off what the project 944s end up costing, and it had a decent value when sold as it had proved itself.
£20K on a track 944 might seem a lot, but these cars really do keep much more expensive machinery on their toes. The RPM track car was able to hassle GT3s around Bedford, only losing out on longer straights. And when it was facing the wrong way....
ruebdo said:
Thanks guys. To me part of the fun is building it how I want.
So there are no downsides, within reason?
Hello Rue, I'd suggest you go and drive one. They are very capable cars but they are not a 911. I ran a 944 turbo silver rose with a bit of extra boost as my road car for a short while. It would light up its rear tyres in the wet at 100mph but I think that was down to old rubber. So there are no downsides, within reason?
I have also done a fair few laps in race winning 944 turbo's as well. No offence intended to the 944 boys but not with standing their power they are mind numbingly boring to drive in comparison to a 911. In a 911 it moves around a lot, you instinctively know when you are on a quick lap and they are just so much more involving and rewarding. Sorry just my opinion
Go for it, it is a plan without drawbacks.
I have over 20 Porsche in my collection, including modern models all the way back to a 930 turbo with over 400 bhp, but to be honest, the 944 Turbo is very tunable, handles like a dream (especially with coilovers) and has real personality.
For tuning, the sky is the limit, or at least traction is the limit above 450 ft-lbs, but that limit is about to be removed.
I have over 20 Porsche in my collection, including modern models all the way back to a 930 turbo with over 400 bhp, but to be honest, the 944 Turbo is very tunable, handles like a dream (especially with coilovers) and has real personality.
For tuning, the sky is the limit, or at least traction is the limit above 450 ft-lbs, but that limit is about to be removed.
graemel said:
Hello Rue, I'd suggest you go and drive one. They are very capable cars but they are not a 911. I ran a 944 turbo silver rose with a bit of extra boost as my road car for a short while. It would light up its rear tyres in the wet at 100mph but I think that was down to old rubber.
I have also done a fair few laps in race winning 944 turbo's as well. No offence intended to the 944 boys but not with standing their power they are mind numbingly boring to drive in comparison to a 911. In a 911 it moves around a lot, you instinctively know when you are on a quick lap and they are just so much more involving and rewarding. Sorry just my opinion
There has only ever been one properly prepared 944 turbo, and you've never driven it I have also done a fair few laps in race winning 944 turbo's as well. No offence intended to the 944 boys but not with standing their power they are mind numbingly boring to drive in comparison to a 911. In a 911 it moves around a lot, you instinctively know when you are on a quick lap and they are just so much more involving and rewarding. Sorry just my opinion
You will be very disappointed with the noise - specially coming from a straight 6..
They are very competent cars - and some people don't like them on track. A friend of mine (club racer, very capable and quick on the track) wasn't happy as the 944 doesn't really move around much. If you like to be neat & precise on the track, it's a good car. If you want to slide it around, maybe not.
A turbo won't be a cheap track car - there are too many tempting upgrades. 300bhp / 300lb ft is reasonably easy to reach and not too expensive. Beyond that can cost a lot.
944's are also quite heavy in standard trim. I've gone from a 944 turbo to a 944 S2 for my track car. To be quite honest I prefer the S2 even though it has less power. It has less weight, better throttle response, and makes a (slightly) better noise.
They are very competent cars - and some people don't like them on track. A friend of mine (club racer, very capable and quick on the track) wasn't happy as the 944 doesn't really move around much. If you like to be neat & precise on the track, it's a good car. If you want to slide it around, maybe not.
A turbo won't be a cheap track car - there are too many tempting upgrades. 300bhp / 300lb ft is reasonably easy to reach and not too expensive. Beyond that can cost a lot.
944's are also quite heavy in standard trim. I've gone from a 944 turbo to a 944 S2 for my track car. To be quite honest I prefer the S2 even though it has less power. It has less weight, better throttle response, and makes a (slightly) better noise.
The 944 and 968 really do get better as they get older, according 'accepted wisdom'. At this rate theyll be the best car ever made in another fifteen years.
The 944 is bashy and crashy and the ride isnt great, The front wallows, their straightline stability is questionable and they tramline terribly, even with OEM 7"x16" front wheels and the steering kicks back quite badly too. The rear suspension is terribly compromised being, as it is, the beam and trailing arms off a Beetle. Im sure that many will disagree, but if NJH sees this then he will confirm that its a problem that his S2 racer suffers badly from.
My biggest gripe with the 944 Turbo though, is its gearing. The higher final drive make slow speed driving a chore. I will happily trade the possibility that I will need to change to third gear on a 0-60 sprint for a final drive which doesnt make it feel as though Im setting off and driving inslow traffic in second gear!
The 944 is bashy and crashy and the ride isnt great, The front wallows, their straightline stability is questionable and they tramline terribly, even with OEM 7"x16" front wheels and the steering kicks back quite badly too. The rear suspension is terribly compromised being, as it is, the beam and trailing arms off a Beetle. Im sure that many will disagree, but if NJH sees this then he will confirm that its a problem that his S2 racer suffers badly from.
My biggest gripe with the 944 Turbo though, is its gearing. The higher final drive make slow speed driving a chore. I will happily trade the possibility that I will need to change to third gear on a 0-60 sprint for a final drive which doesnt make it feel as though Im setting off and driving inslow traffic in second gear!
GC8 said:
The 944 and 968 really do get better as they get older, according 'accepted wisdom'. At this rate theyll be the best car ever made in another fifteen years.
The 944 is bashy and crashy and the ride isnt great, The front wallows, their straightline stability is questionable and they tramline terribly, even with OEM 7"x16" front wheels and the steering kicks back quite badly too. The rear suspension is terribly compromised being, as it is, the beam and trailing arms off a Beetle. Im sure that many will disagree, but if NJH sees this then he will confirm that its a problem that his S2 racer suffers badly from.
My biggest gripe with the 944 Turbo though, is its gearing. The higher final drive make slow speed driving a chore. I will happily trade the possibility that I will need to change to third gear on a 0-60 sprint for a final drive which doesnt make it feel as though Im setting off and driving inslow traffic in second gear!
Having a bad day Simon? The 944 is bashy and crashy and the ride isnt great, The front wallows, their straightline stability is questionable and they tramline terribly, even with OEM 7"x16" front wheels and the steering kicks back quite badly too. The rear suspension is terribly compromised being, as it is, the beam and trailing arms off a Beetle. Im sure that many will disagree, but if NJH sees this then he will confirm that its a problem that his S2 racer suffers badly from.
My biggest gripe with the 944 Turbo though, is its gearing. The higher final drive make slow speed driving a chore. I will happily trade the possibility that I will need to change to third gear on a 0-60 sprint for a final drive which doesnt make it feel as though Im setting off and driving inslow traffic in second gear!
Sounds like yours needs a set of KW's 
Id just re-read the April 1988 Performance Car 944 Turbo SE v Ferrari 328GTS road test Ed - the very article which got me interested in 944s in the first place.
It was refreshing to see the cars honestly described with the characteristics that I have referred to all mentioned. It doesnt stop the cars from being great, and you know how much I like them, but the endless hyperbole gets on my tits. Less so with 944s than 968s though...
Im really finding the high gearing tiring though and oddly, it seems far worse now than it did when I drove a nearly new 250. I can only presume that being far newer and tighter, and having someone else pay the bills made it easier to drive.
It was refreshing to see the cars honestly described with the characteristics that I have referred to all mentioned. It doesnt stop the cars from being great, and you know how much I like them, but the endless hyperbole gets on my tits. Less so with 944s than 968s though...
Im really finding the high gearing tiring though and oddly, it seems far worse now than it did when I drove a nearly new 250. I can only presume that being far newer and tighter, and having someone else pay the bills made it easier to drive.
Have a look at AVO as well. They will custom make front monotube struts into a body you supply them. Rear coilovers should be possible based on an off the shelf unit with offset bottom rose joint. Don't know if anyone has gone this route yet though.
In my case the rear suspension had those stupid delrin torsion bar bushes in there. Something I did several years ago and regretted more or less straight away. The guy that fitted them reckoned they were binding up sometimes. I could feel that when they squeaked the ride quality was worse, when they were silent the ride quality was nice again. You can live with things like that in a road or track day car but in a race car you come round one lap fine, the next the arse end whips out. Got rid of em now so I just have to live with that odd feeling you get sometimes where it feels like the cars arse is being dragged around as those rubber bushes move around.
The rear suspension is obviously flawed but is it really any worse than any other car from that period? e30 for example.
Its easy to forget these are all old cars and the world has moved on, really though its only the lack of a nice sound track and the feeling of weight caused by the dumbbell layout that I don't like.
In my case the rear suspension had those stupid delrin torsion bar bushes in there. Something I did several years ago and regretted more or less straight away. The guy that fitted them reckoned they were binding up sometimes. I could feel that when they squeaked the ride quality was worse, when they were silent the ride quality was nice again. You can live with things like that in a road or track day car but in a race car you come round one lap fine, the next the arse end whips out. Got rid of em now so I just have to live with that odd feeling you get sometimes where it feels like the cars arse is being dragged around as those rubber bushes move around.
The rear suspension is obviously flawed but is it really any worse than any other car from that period? e30 for example.
Its easy to forget these are all old cars and the world has moved on, really though its only the lack of a nice sound track and the feeling of weight caused by the dumbbell layout that I don't like.
I'm working on a 450-500 bhp 1990 944 turbo road car. Dry sumped 2.5 litre, stand alone management, rose-jointed suspension, Garrett GTX3071R, N/A head, Big Reds, Leda coilovers with custom springs, camberplates, Guard 50/80 LSD, KEP clutch & PP, Spec billet steel L/W flywheel etc. There are endless tuning options for these cars, especially if you source parts from the U.S. where there is strong network of highly tuned 951s. That said, I don't get why people strip out a non-race car thereby turning it into a one-trick pony - a fast road/trackday machine with a full interior is considerably more versatile & useable especially if you retain the backseat.
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