996 Turbo is it worth buying an X50 for the sake of it
Discussion
Hi everyone,
I've decided at the moment it would probably be better for me to go for a 996 and save the extra outlay on buying a 997.
I was really after an X50 version but the ones I was looking at have gone and the only couple advertised at the moment have very non desireable colour combinations, to me anyway, there is however a good selection of Seal Grey and Black standard Turbos around.
Is there a significant difference between the standard and the X50?, whichever one I went for I would be getting re mapped anyway, what sort of gains could I expect from a standard Turbo?, I would be hoping a re map would boost power to around standard 997 Turbo territory?.
Lastly could anyone give me any advice on what to look out for when looking at cars, and to check what work has been done on invoices?, I know about the front radiators but that is about it, from what I've read I've gathered the Turbo engines are quite robust compared to their NA siblings.
I've decided at the moment it would probably be better for me to go for a 996 and save the extra outlay on buying a 997.
I was really after an X50 version but the ones I was looking at have gone and the only couple advertised at the moment have very non desireable colour combinations, to me anyway, there is however a good selection of Seal Grey and Black standard Turbos around.
Is there a significant difference between the standard and the X50?, whichever one I went for I would be getting re mapped anyway, what sort of gains could I expect from a standard Turbo?, I would be hoping a re map would boost power to around standard 997 Turbo territory?.
Lastly could anyone give me any advice on what to look out for when looking at cars, and to check what work has been done on invoices?, I know about the front radiators but that is about it, from what I've read I've gathered the Turbo engines are quite robust compared to their NA siblings.
+1, buy on condition.
Plenty been written on this topic.
Had a vanilla turbo for a couple of years and had it remapped.
Now have a turbo 's' with the x50 kit.
The x50 engine is ferociously fast towards the top end.
A remapped standard 996 turbo with k16s is the sweetest combo for normal driving conditions. The small turbos pick up really quickly and allow to make progress effortlessly fast.
Many people will disagree with me here but I owned both cars (still have the turbo s) and this my view based on real life experience fro an extended period of time.
I prefer my turbo 's' but for other reasons: it is an occasional car and I wanted smthg a bit more special gt2-type but without having to compromise on comfort. I also like the idea of being able to enjoy the car in terrible weather conditions.
Plenty been written on this topic.
Had a vanilla turbo for a couple of years and had it remapped.
Now have a turbo 's' with the x50 kit.
The x50 engine is ferociously fast towards the top end.
A remapped standard 996 turbo with k16s is the sweetest combo for normal driving conditions. The small turbos pick up really quickly and allow to make progress effortlessly fast.
Many people will disagree with me here but I owned both cars (still have the turbo s) and this my view based on real life experience fro an extended period of time.
I prefer my turbo 's' but for other reasons: it is an occasional car and I wanted smthg a bit more special gt2-type but without having to compromise on comfort. I also like the idea of being able to enjoy the car in terrible weather conditions.
bodgerben said:
Can't comment of X50 vs standard.
Things to look for on recent invoices will be the usual brakes, disks, pads, suspension coffin arms, rads and condensors, turbo manifold studs, exhaust heat sheilds, turbo oil feed pipes and a recent major service (plugs with maybe the coil packs).
If the coffin arms, rads, studs and exhaust heat sheilds have not been done - sooner or later they will need doing.
Things to look for on recent invoices will be the usual brakes, disks, pads, suspension coffin arms, rads and condensors, turbo manifold studs, exhaust heat sheilds, turbo oil feed pipes and a recent major service (plugs with maybe the coil packs).
If the coffin arms, rads, studs and exhaust heat sheilds have not been done - sooner or later they will need doing.
erics said:
A remapped standard 996 turbo with k16s is the sweetest combo for normal driving conditions. The small turbos pick up really quickly and allow to make progress effortlessly fast.
That makes sense. I've driven both (but not back to back) and it did seem like the X50 had to be worked a little harder to get it going quicker (which it certainly did higher up the rev range).I looked at an x50 as an upgrade to my turbo but it was just too laggy in comparison (it was jason plato's car so you can't cite pussying around and not properly run). The GT2 has similar traits but luckily the lack of weight plus other GT2 magic makes it significantly better. I definitely wouldn't be desperate for an X50 turbo, the standard is really peppy in the midrange and as said can be chipped to more brute bhp if you like.
SM
SM
There were a few X50s around but I missed them, there is one that seems good value but has a Red interior-sorry some people like them but I've never been a fan, Northway have one that looks quite promising and a there is another one that I might be interested in if they came down slightly.
I wouldn't be put off by a standard Turbo because I would remap it but I would worry that in standard trim it won't feel like much of a performance upgrade from the E55 (granted it would as soon as I got to a corner)
I wouldn't be put off by a standard Turbo because I would remap it but I would worry that in standard trim it won't feel like much of a performance upgrade from the E55 (granted it would as soon as I got to a corner)
This is a std turbo which looks excellent value on the surface of it; I have'nt seen the car, but if I was in the market, I'd definitely have a look.
Link: http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/dealerservice...
I've had a couple of std. turbos in the past, and IMHO, they're plenty quick enough for road use.
Good Luck.
Link: http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/dealerservice...
I've had a couple of std. turbos in the past, and IMHO, they're plenty quick enough for road use.
Good Luck.
I had a standard one and it was, boring. Then mapped it, and it was like, fun. Then I replaced the k16s with a k24 hybrids and all the accompliments. Now it is an absoute beast, and really, really fun. fast as a new 997gt2rs. It is so fast now, I dont worry about lag, as any road car will get eaten up when the boost comes anyways. Yet, I use it as a run around too, as it has no external modifications and i retained the hydrualic clutch set up, so it is really easy to drive around.
carcrazypop said:
This is a std turbo which looks excellent value on the surface of it; I have'nt seen the car, but if I was in the market, I'd definitely have a look.
Link: http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/dealerservice...
I've had a couple of std. turbos in the past, and IMHO, they're plenty quick enough for road use.
Good Luck.
Looks mega value.Link: http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/dealerservice...
I've had a couple of std. turbos in the past, and IMHO, they're plenty quick enough for road use.
Good Luck.
Walter Sobchak said:
Hi everyone,
I've decided at the moment it would probably be better for me to go for a 996 and save the extra outlay on buying a 997.
I was really after an X50 version but the ones I was looking at have gone and the only couple advertised at the moment have very non desireable colour combinations, to me anyway, there is however a good selection of Seal Grey and Black standard Turbos around.
Is there a significant difference between the standard and the X50?, whichever one I went for I would be getting re mapped anyway, what sort of gains could I expect from a standard Turbo?, I would be hoping a re map would boost power to around standard 997 Turbo territory?.
Lastly could anyone give me any advice on what to look out for when looking at cars, and to check what work has been done on invoices?, I know about the front radiators but that is about it, from what I've read I've gathered the Turbo engines are quite robust compared to their NA siblings.
You need to get a PPI done regardless. There are many things that can be wrong and looking at past bills will really not give you a strong indication of condition, unless the work was done in the last year or so.I've decided at the moment it would probably be better for me to go for a 996 and save the extra outlay on buying a 997.
I was really after an X50 version but the ones I was looking at have gone and the only couple advertised at the moment have very non desireable colour combinations, to me anyway, there is however a good selection of Seal Grey and Black standard Turbos around.
Is there a significant difference between the standard and the X50?, whichever one I went for I would be getting re mapped anyway, what sort of gains could I expect from a standard Turbo?, I would be hoping a re map would boost power to around standard 997 Turbo territory?.
Lastly could anyone give me any advice on what to look out for when looking at cars, and to check what work has been done on invoices?, I know about the front radiators but that is about it, from what I've read I've gathered the Turbo engines are quite robust compared to their NA siblings.
If all you are thinking of is a straight forward remap then the difference between standard and x50 when tuned properly is around 0.3/0.4 seconds from 60-130mph. The standard hits quicker than the x50, but the x50 will be stronger.
If you think you will ever go for more power than a straight forward remap, then frankly it is not worth the premium to have the x50. Hybrids are now moving forwards based on k16 (standard) rather than k24 (x50). Furthermore the intercoolers are rubbish on both cars, although the x50 intercoolers are slightly better, but still rubbish. You have to remember that the technology on these cars are over 10 years old, and things have moved on significantly.
Regarding performance, yes a tuned car will be (well should be) faster than a 997 Turbo.
If you plan on keeping it standard, then probably the x50 might be the better choice.
Like I said, just get a PPI to be sure of knowing what you are buying.
Ken
Thanks for the advice Ken 
, I would definatly get an inspection done before buying anything, I would just like to narrow it down to 1 or 2 cars before I do so as the costs could soon mount up.
As much as the world of hybrid turbos,different exhausts etc is interesting and can provide amazing amounts of power it's not something I would do to one, for me it would just be a straight forward remap,probably an iPod connection and that's about it in terms of modding.
, I would definatly get an inspection done before buying anything, I would just like to narrow it down to 1 or 2 cars before I do so as the costs could soon mount up.As much as the world of hybrid turbos,different exhausts etc is interesting and can provide amazing amounts of power it's not something I would do to one, for me it would just be a straight forward remap,probably an iPod connection and that's about it in terms of modding.
Crimp a Length! said:
Buy on condition/history for starters.
Settle on the right colour/spec etc next.
Trust me they are all epic cars and extremely quick whether 420 or 450!
^^Settle on the right colour/spec etc next.
Trust me they are all epic cars and extremely quick whether 420 or 450!
This.
My personal view is no, X50 not worth it, and I was actively seeking cars without it (I would have been OK with it had everything else been right).
The standard car is extremely quick - even 10 years on - and even nowadays only the real top end machinery will beat it. Yes, the X50 is (of course) marginally quicker, but the downside is more lag. Some are happy with that trade off though.
996ttalot said:
You need to get a PPI done regardless. There are many things that can be wrong and looking at past bills will really not give you a strong indication of condition, unless the work was done in the last year or so.
If all you are thinking of is a straight forward remap then the difference between standard and x50 when tuned properly is around 0.3/0.4 seconds from 60-130mph. The standard hits quicker than the x50, but the x50 will be stronger.
If you think you will ever go for more power than a straight forward remap, then frankly it is not worth the premium to have the x50. Hybrids are now moving forwards based on k16 (standard) rather than k24 (x50). Furthermore the intercoolers are rubbish on both cars, although the x50 intercoolers are slightly better, but still rubbish. You have to remember that the technology on these cars are over 10 years old, and things have moved on significantly.
Regarding performance, yes a tuned car will be (well should be) faster than a 997 Turbo.
If you plan on keeping it standard, then probably the x50 might be the better choice.
Like I said, just get a PPI to be sure of knowing what you are buying.
Ken
Good words as always Ken. If all you are thinking of is a straight forward remap then the difference between standard and x50 when tuned properly is around 0.3/0.4 seconds from 60-130mph. The standard hits quicker than the x50, but the x50 will be stronger.
If you think you will ever go for more power than a straight forward remap, then frankly it is not worth the premium to have the x50. Hybrids are now moving forwards based on k16 (standard) rather than k24 (x50). Furthermore the intercoolers are rubbish on both cars, although the x50 intercoolers are slightly better, but still rubbish. You have to remember that the technology on these cars are over 10 years old, and things have moved on significantly.
Regarding performance, yes a tuned car will be (well should be) faster than a 997 Turbo.
If you plan on keeping it standard, then probably the x50 might be the better choice.
Like I said, just get a PPI to be sure of knowing what you are buying.
Ken
Just curious Ken, how come hybrids are moving towards k16's? Due to the findings you've had I pressume?
For the OP, I went k16 with a remap, best of everything that way. Just my opinion however.
They are incredibly strong and can handle serious power much beyond the standard trim. X50 will give you higher straight line speed. But for daily use and through bendy stuff, K16's are probably quicker when you get a proper tune done. You should consider adding a less restrictive exhaust and air filter to a more aggressive tune.
If you need input and options, you will be in good hands with Ken and 9e.
Good luck with your new toy
If you need input and options, you will be in good hands with Ken and 9e.
Good luck with your new toy
FactoryPilot said:
I bought an X50 car and had it mapped at Fearnsport, and have to say it is quicker than my former std 997 GT2...
I maybe wrong, but I was under the impression that the X50 had the turbo's and a few other trick bits from the 996 GT2, so it's more like a 4WD daily GT2 if you get my drift.
The X50s do tend to be laggier most of the time, but when they've been well thrashed and the turbos and manifolds are nice 'n hot, the lag pretty much disappears. But in addition to that the lag can be engineered out by decent mapping (as FSport did with my 996 GT2) Had I known this, I'd have had it done waaay sooner (and on my old Midnight blue car too)I maybe wrong, but I was under the impression that the X50 had the turbo's and a few other trick bits from the 996 GT2, so it's more like a 4WD daily GT2 if you get my drift.
Personally I'd have the X50 over the "standard" car every time. Whilst the intercoolers may be "cr*p", they do the job perfectly well for a fast road car used in the UK in addition to which the bigger turbos allow more Hp than the standard car "out of the box" and without the need to resort to the fitment of hybrids.
If the X50 intercoolers are becoming a limiting factor, chuck a pair of 997 GT2 RS items at the car, it's a cheap fix.
So much of this depends on what you plan to do with the car in the future. If you're Hp junkie and going to end up wanting 600-700Hp, there's little point in buying an X50 car. If you're going to be satisfied with "just" 540-80 Hp, then the X50 upgrade becomes a worthwhile investment IMO.
Homer J said:
996ttalot said:
You need to get a PPI done regardless. There are many things that can be wrong and looking at past bills will really not give you a strong indication of condition, unless the work was done in the last year or so.
If all you are thinking of is a straight forward remap then the difference between standard and x50 when tuned properly is around 0.3/0.4 seconds from 60-130mph. The standard hits quicker than the x50, but the x50 will be stronger.
If you think you will ever go for more power than a straight forward remap, then frankly it is not worth the premium to have the x50. Hybrids are now moving forwards based on k16 (standard) rather than k24 (x50). Furthermore the intercoolers are rubbish on both cars, although the x50 intercoolers are slightly better, but still rubbish. You have to remember that the technology on these cars are over 10 years old, and things have moved on significantly.
Regarding performance, yes a tuned car will be (well should be) faster than a 997 Turbo.
If you plan on keeping it standard, then probably the x50 might be the better choice.
Like I said, just get a PPI to be sure of knowing what you are buying.
Ken
Good words as always Ken. If all you are thinking of is a straight forward remap then the difference between standard and x50 when tuned properly is around 0.3/0.4 seconds from 60-130mph. The standard hits quicker than the x50, but the x50 will be stronger.
If you think you will ever go for more power than a straight forward remap, then frankly it is not worth the premium to have the x50. Hybrids are now moving forwards based on k16 (standard) rather than k24 (x50). Furthermore the intercoolers are rubbish on both cars, although the x50 intercoolers are slightly better, but still rubbish. You have to remember that the technology on these cars are over 10 years old, and things have moved on significantly.
Regarding performance, yes a tuned car will be (well should be) faster than a 997 Turbo.
If you plan on keeping it standard, then probably the x50 might be the better choice.
Like I said, just get a PPI to be sure of knowing what you are buying.
Ken
Just curious Ken, how come hybrids are moving towards k16's? Due to the findings you've had I pressume?
For the OP, I went k16 with a remap, best of everything that way. Just my opinion however.
We have our own k16 hybrids that hit full boost (1.5 bar) in just 250rpm and make 700hp. They basically are the best of both worlds because they spool instantly and make big power - the trade off is heat, so you have to have an appropriate package around it. We have that package which is tried, tested and already in many cars.
We have just created a new hybrid that will have the same characteristics above but make even more power.
I don't believe now that k24 are the best hybrids. If I wanted to make big power, say 800 + then I would be choosing different base turbos altogether, and then you get in to the complexity of internal or external wastegates etc.
Up to those levels, the k16 base is the best solution, in my experience, and if I was doing a car for myself, I would absolutely chose k16 over k24 because the driving experience is so much better.
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