Electric steering on Porsches - your questions answered
Discussion
Morning all!
An interesting day beckons with an event at Silverstone at which Porsche engineers will be talking us through developments in chassis, steering and suchlike. We've got the General Manager Vehicle Dynamics and Performance, General Manager Chassis Development, Suspension, Steering and Hydraulic Systems and various others around so I'd like to open the floor to PHers and if there's anything you'd like to ask them shout up here and I'll include these questions in the interviews.
I guess the big one for a lot of us is the old electric steering debate so if there's anything you've ever wanted to know about this - hows, whys, etc - shout up now and I'll be sure to run it by the guys charged with making it work.
Look forward to hearing what you come up with...
Dan
An interesting day beckons with an event at Silverstone at which Porsche engineers will be talking us through developments in chassis, steering and suchlike. We've got the General Manager Vehicle Dynamics and Performance, General Manager Chassis Development, Suspension, Steering and Hydraulic Systems and various others around so I'd like to open the floor to PHers and if there's anything you'd like to ask them shout up here and I'll include these questions in the interviews.
I guess the big one for a lot of us is the old electric steering debate so if there's anything you've ever wanted to know about this - hows, whys, etc - shout up now and I'll be sure to run it by the guys charged with making it work.
Look forward to hearing what you come up with...
Dan
OK here's the inevitable one:
Why?
They've messed with one of the most essential parts of the character of the Porsche 911; one of THE reasons that many people buy (bought?) them. Electric steering has been a relative disaster (from a feel/feedback perspective) in most other vehicles, so why take the risk? Was it the .001% decrease in fuel consumption. Or was it done purely for $$$£££ (given Porsche's margins are so weak
)? I'm guessing the electronic system is cheaper to make/easier to integrate? Or (call me cynical if you like) so they can charge £several-thousand for hydraulic steering as an option in the future?
Please ask them not to BS about it being done for our own good. Whilst some have commented that the feel is OK and not a deal breaker, nobody has yet said the new system is anywhere near as good as (or better than) the hydraulic one.
Why?
They've messed with one of the most essential parts of the character of the Porsche 911; one of THE reasons that many people buy (bought?) them. Electric steering has been a relative disaster (from a feel/feedback perspective) in most other vehicles, so why take the risk? Was it the .001% decrease in fuel consumption. Or was it done purely for $$$£££ (given Porsche's margins are so weak
)? I'm guessing the electronic system is cheaper to make/easier to integrate? Or (call me cynical if you like) so they can charge £several-thousand for hydraulic steering as an option in the future?Please ask them not to BS about it being done for our own good. Whilst some have commented that the feel is OK and not a deal breaker, nobody has yet said the new system is anywhere near as good as (or better than) the hydraulic one.
maybe you could ask them how August Achleitner, the chief engineer had the neck to answer criticism of the electromechanical steering in the 991 with the quote "The new system only removes feedback that you do not need. All of our racers prefer electromechanical," when the race cars all use electro hydraulic?
either the chief engineer doesnt know his own project, doesnt understand the difference between the two completely different systems, or was just telling porkies
interesting of course that the oversight sees the race cars get the better system while the road car gets the lesser.
im only joking of course, you will likely be shown the door but just be prepared for the defence/explanations to be thick with BS and misinformation.
either the chief engineer doesnt know his own project, doesnt understand the difference between the two completely different systems, or was just telling porkies
interesting of course that the oversight sees the race cars get the better system while the road car gets the lesser.
im only joking of course, you will likely be shown the door but just be prepared for the defence/explanations to be thick with BS and misinformation.
Edited by fioran0 on Thursday 16th August 11:24
Tried my first version of this new fangled arrangement the other day on a 981 Box and found it completely numb, even heavy "feeling" especially at low/medium speeds (similar to my Q5!), albeit much better when pressing on, once I had adjusted to what felt like a slight delay on turn in.
Getting back into the GT3 was night and day, the thing felt like it had been snorting coke! So now I understand the critisicm of the new system.
But, I suppose it all goes towards helping the Polar bears eh - that's progress for you?
Getting back into the GT3 was night and day, the thing felt like it had been snorting coke! So now I understand the critisicm of the new system.
But, I suppose it all goes towards helping the Polar bears eh - that's progress for you?
..Is the new electric set up like a motor geared into the steering column to add the power to the steering..? unlike the old system which was an engine belt driven hydraulic pump over rack and pinion, the Cup cars had the same except the hydraulic pump was electric instead of engine belt driven I believe.
Well, I had a long chat, got a lot of notes and drove quite a few different 991s and Boxsters, in addition to the 997 I borrowed for the journey up here. Much to digest but very interesting. And on that teasing note I'll have to say wait and see!
Thanks all for the questions though - they were most impressed that PHers would want to get stuck in and we'd approach the whole issue like this.
Watch this space...
Dan
Thanks all for the questions though - they were most impressed that PHers would want to get stuck in and we'd approach the whole issue like this.
Watch this space...
Dan
993AL said:
Mutt said:
Not steering, but why do the PDLS lights have washers and the regular ones don't? Is PDLS more powerful? Dipped or high beam perhaps?
Washers are a requirement for any HID lights, Porsche or otherwise, that are self levelling.nsm3 said:
Tried my first version of this new fangled arrangement the other day on a 981 Box and found it completely numb, even heavy "feeling" especially at low/medium speeds (similar to my Q5!), albeit much better when pressing on, once I had adjusted to what felt like a slight delay on turn in.
Getting back into the GT3 was night and day, the thing felt like it had been snorting coke! So now I understand the critisicm of the new system.
But, I suppose it all goes towards helping the Polar bears eh - that's progress for you?
I had exactly the same experience with the 991 .... Getting back into the GT3 was night and day, the thing felt like it had been snorting coke! So now I understand the critisicm of the new system.
But, I suppose it all goes towards helping the Polar bears eh - that's progress for you?
Mutt said:
993AL said:
Mutt said:
Not steering, but why do the PDLS lights have washers and the regular ones don't? Is PDLS more powerful? Dipped or high beam perhaps?
Washers are a requirement for any HID lights, Porsche or otherwise, that are self levelling." Clear glass halogen headlights are fitted as standard on the Boxster. The Boxster S is equipped as standard with Bi-Xenon headlights"
August Achleitner said:
"The new system only removes feedback that you do not need. All of our racers prefer electromechanical,"
Hi Neil, the first part sounds like an oxymoron, the second a total lack of understanding that road and race cars are two very different animals. Herr Achleitner should be taken outside, stood against a wall, blindfolded, and . . . . well I think you know the rest.
I think I liked it better when Germans just had no sense of humour.
This new found love of mirth is already getting out of hand.
Don't worry though, the car will be fitted with PDK and a physical gear lever that you push forward/pull back to shift. It will be marketed as being a Motorsport derived sequential gearbox just like the race cars use and lots of people will believe it.
When coupled to the psychic steering that senses what you need to know and filters everything else out its going to be a future like no other.
Then again maybe they will bring out an 8 cylinder engine coupled to a wonderful transmission and electro hydraulic steering
This new found love of mirth is already getting out of hand.
Don't worry though, the car will be fitted with PDK and a physical gear lever that you push forward/pull back to shift. It will be marketed as being a Motorsport derived sequential gearbox just like the race cars use and lots of people will believe it.
When coupled to the psychic steering that senses what you need to know and filters everything else out its going to be a future like no other.
Then again maybe they will bring out an 8 cylinder engine coupled to a wonderful transmission and electro hydraulic steering
Edited by fioran0 on Friday 17th August 13:32
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