911 GTS vs. Cayman R

[J-P]

As I'm sure a lot of people in this section of PH know, I had a lovely white 911 GTS and I absolutely loved it! It was a great car IMHO, which suited me down to the ground and was actually reasonably practical too! I took it on a couple of driving tours, a few track days and just to pootle to the shop with the kids in the back and it performed every task excellently.

Then earlier on this year I drove a white Cayman R, whilst mine was in for some minor warranty work and my head was completely turned. A few short weeks later, the GTS was gone and the R was on the driveway and pretty much ever since I've wondered whether I'd done the right thing.

That sinking feeling got even worse when I drove the new 991 for the second time at the PEC last month and thought "wow, this is a lot better than last time".

At Brands last week, I still wasn't used to the Cayman and was gutted that I wasn't enjoying myself more as I knew I'd have had an absolute riot in the GTS!

But today, I drove the R at Snetterton, my first time there and I finally bonded with the car. It's very, very quick and beautifully balanced - I reckon it's actually quicker than the GTS on track but there's still plenty of feedback from the car and you can take some real liberties with it.

I'm still not sure it's "better" than the GTS but by christ it's an epic car. It just does everything well (except hairpins).

A couple of friends were there with me today in an Exige 260 and a Caterham Superlight and the CR was surprisingly close to them on track but on the way home, I stuck on the sat nav and a/c, put the ipod on and cruised home in comfort. Don't think the Caterham would be very good for that!

One thing I don't get though is why doesn't the CR do the writhey wheel thing when it's on the limit? This was something that I loved about the GTS - I used to drive it on track like that the whole time!

Anyway, familiarity with the CR is something I'm really looking forward to. I think over time, I'll love it more and more - the pace of the thing is jaw dropping!

[Jim1556]

What was the problem at hairpins?

[mrdemon]

seems the rear ARB is a bit to stiff on them to me.

But over all a great car, just seem a bit more tail happy than the Spyders so then a bit slower on track.

[J-P]

Jim1556 said:

What was the problem at hairpins?

Understeery mess at the slower one - OK at the quicker one

[J-P]

mrdemon said:

seems the rear ARB is a bit to stiff on them to me.

But over all a great car, just seem a bit more tail happy than the Spyders so then a bit slower on track.

I'd heard that but the rear end on mine was pretty secure - it's not arse out all over the place as I'd been led to believe.

[keep it lit]

J-P said:

Jim1556 said:

What was the problem at hairpins?

Understeery mess at the slower one - OK at the quicker one

needs more neg. camber ...?

[Jim1556]

Maybe a track focused GEO would help with slow speed turn in...

Or you'll just have to get used to the old Scandinavian flick!

[J-P]

keep it lit said:

J-P said:

Jim1556 said:

What was the problem at hairpins?

Understeery mess at the slower one - OK at the quicker one

needs more neg. camber ...?

Yes I could probably do with amending the geo - it was nigh on impossible to nail the apex on that hairpin unless you went really S-L-O-W. I was really jealous when the Exige just hooked up and went, nailing the apex every time!

[J-P]

Jim1556 said:

Maybe a track focused GEO would help with slow speed turn in...

Or you'll just have to get used to the old Scandinavian flick!

It's too chuffing hard, whilst braking and H&T!

[J-P]

Just to clarify Montreal - nightmare! Agostini, no problem, car felt great here (and everywhere else for that matter).

[porkyspecialist]

I was going to ask if Porsche had finally allowed the "CR" an LSD (I'm not that familiar with the new stuff), but it seems that lack of oversteer is not your problem.

[J-P]

porkyspecialist said:

I was going to ask if Porsche had finally allowed the "CR" an LSD (I'm not that familiar with the new stuff), but it seems that lack of oversteer is not your problem.

Yes CR has an LSD, which might have been the problem in that corner but I tried trail-braking, going hard on the power to get the back involved - just messy! But literally everywhere else it was great! Hamiltons and the S after the Bentley straight were particular highlights! (Oh and bombhole!)

[HokumPokum]

it's all about weight at the front during turn in. These cars are amazing. Both spyder and cr, superbly balanced great on track. Sure it is not gt3 rs great but unbeatable for the price and 80% of the way there in terms of outright fun and speed. The spyder is more stable but the CR is better balanced. both are equally awesome. If anything, they need 997 GT3 lower control arms installed before you do your geo to have more camber so the outer edge wear won't be as severe on track days. Just a geo by itself won't give you enough neg camber.

[J-P]

I did turn in on the brakes. The problem was the transition onto the power I ended up just focussing on the exit and by and large that worked well-enough.

Geo with GT3 control arms? what would that set you back?

To be honest it's only the slow hairpin where I felt there was a problem. On fast corners it was sublime

[mollytherocker]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

You may only need a little trail braking to keep the nose in. Where you would normally roll of the brake onto the throttle at the corner entry, try keeping a little brake pressure on all the way to the apex.

Mtr

[J-P]

mollytherocker said:

You may only need a little trail braking to keep the nose in. Where you would normally roll of the brake onto the throttle at the corner entry, try keeping a little brake pressure on all the way to the apex.

Mtr

That's a good shout MTR. I didn't try that all the way to the apex to be fair. I'll give that a go next time .

[mrdemon]

" trail braking "

it's not a 911 :-)

just get some camber on it, I would go RSS arms, but you can prob get -2 standard any way which will help a lot.
I do not have a turn in issued on the tracks I have been on so far and you can go deaper and brake later than GT3's and take more corner speed.

The Exige has R spec tyres on rembember so do most GT3's you see on track.

Tyres are every thing on track.

[Raitzi]

J-P said:

I reckon it's actually quicker than the GTS on track

So it seems: http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/porsche_997...

[boxsey]

mrdemon said:

The Exige has R spec tyres on rembember so do most GT3's you see on track.

Tyres are every thing on track.

+1. Track rubber would make a significant difference without going mad on geo changes.

Also, changing the setup to make the car better for just one corner when it's good for all the others doesn't make sense to me because I doubt if you could get a balance where it's good for every corner. Better to just accept that there will always be an issue with a particular corner and drive round the problem.

[sootyvrs]

Glad to hear you are enjoying the CR.

Loving mine so far although not had the chance to drive it to it's limit on a track as yet.

Strange how the understeer doesn't pose such a problem on the road but I guess it's rare you push 10/10ths on the public road.

The 911 GTS is a great car and the fact that the "cheaper" CR is comparable is I guess a big complement to the CR