EVO - The 911 By Singer Review

[Carl_Docklands]

Has anyone read the review yet?

Mouthwatering car to look at, real wall poster stuff.

Meaden looked smitten with it, an old-skool 911 built to modern standards, what a car!

[crystalmethod]

Yes. Great article. Re-read three times in fact. The way Meaden talks about a feeling of grief at having to give it back says it all.

I know some may disagree with the concept, but I really ache for one. God knows how they're supported in the UK. I assume breaking something vital would mean weeks off the road.

[Old Trout]

That would be my Euromillions car.

As he said - if he only had to own one car - that would be it.

It is an absolute peach inside, the attention to detail nothing less than OCD!!

[wildman0609]

crystalmethod said:

God knows how they're supported in the UK. I assume breaking something vital would mean weeks off the road.

why not try to build your own? they are very low volume so there would be no investment costs for tooling etc. there are loads of prototyping companies in the uk that supply the auto industry. I'd imagine its possible to build something as good if not better. yes it would cost a fortune but the cost could be spread over a long period of time. I can't see any of the project that can't be replicated to an equal or better standard.

now I've written that I think I'll have to give it a go.

[crystalmethod]

wildman0609 said:

crystalmethod said:

God knows how they're supported in the UK. I assume breaking something vital would mean weeks off the road.

why not try to build your own? they are very low volume so there would be no investment costs for tooling etc. there are loads of prototyping companies in the uk that supply the auto industry. I'd imagine its possible to build something as good if not better. yes it would cost a fortune but the cost could be spread over a long period of time. I can't see any of the project that can't be replicated to an equal or better standard.

now I've written that I think I'll have to give it a go.

It's a really nice idea, but Singer get their own parts manufactured in order to get the quality and detail nailed - and they've been working on getting them right for several years. And also Meaden reports that the whole car has been so beautifully honed, so it's even more than the sum of its parts. I fear that going through that whole process from scratch for one car wouldn't achieve the resultant kind of car that they produce.

[Old Trout]

I am sure there are a few people that can help you in the UK. I was very impressed by Mikey Wastie at Autofarm.

I just wish I had the money, time and knowledge for such a project. But that is why Singer can get the money they do for their cars.

[drpep]

I've been looking at these for a while but just can't resolve £250k for one. I'm sure they're absolutely sublime and it'd definitely be a 'money no object' car for me but in advance of that lottery windfall, I think that money buys you a lot of other exquisite motoring appliances; pork, and otherwise.

[Old Trout]

I wasn't necessarily saying to consider an Autofarm remake (I do believe they do them) - however from my (limited) experience of Mikey he is a fanatic with an OCD attention to detail and Porsche knowledge and loves nothing more than a customer project. Of these I think there are quite a number - which is different from buying a non-commissioned Autofarm car.

What I was suggesting is that there are some good people out there if you wanted to build your own with a little help!

[cuse92]

Old Trout said:

I am sure there are a few people that can help you in the UK. I was very impressed by Mikey Wastie at Autofarm.

I just wish I had the money, time and knowledge for such a project. But that is why Singer can get the money they do for their cars.

I've got a PS Autoart car from Paul Stephens, he can definitely do this sort of thing. My car is nowhere near as special as the Singer cars, but (I think) it is very nice, is exactly what I wanted (pre-impact bumper look outside without being an exact retro match, with ABS, power steering, 64RS brakes, 6 speed short-shift G50, LSD and torquey 3.8 engine underneath, and a nice interior) and it cost a fraction of a Singer car. (the car was featured in the May edition of Total911). PS can do a lot more than I did on my car if you have the budget (which I don't), including motec/varioram/ITB on the engine, carbon fibre panels/doors/bonnet, etc...

[Old Trout]

Some more nice photos here!

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/singer-911-porsch...

[cuse92]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I know you didn't aim your post at me, and I don't disagree that the Singer is incredible stuff, and is overall better quality than the UK retro-themed cars (I don't view my car as a "backdate" given how modern everything but the basic shape is) like mine. However, I do think that from people like Autofarm and PS, you can get a good amount of the feel of the Singer at a fraction of the outlay. The wheels, bodywork, alu bonnet, bumpers, mirrors, gear knob, black leather/corduroy interior trim, headlights, rear brake light clusters, pop-up rear spoiler etc. in my car are all bespoke by PS and are top-notch. The build quality of my car may not be Singer level but it is very good, better than my previous 993, 996 or 997.

Another UK shop that is doing incredible stuff is Ninemeister. They are doing a retro-themed RSR build at the moment that is stunning (there is a running thread on it in the 964 forum on Rennlist, with detailed pics of the entire build process), huge amounts of that car are bespoke, although I suspect the cost on that particular car is approaching that of a Singer...

In short, I don't disagree that the Singer is incredible, but it is pretty much unobtainable for most of us and I wouldn't discourage people who are interested in the Singer from looking into some of the UK builders, there is some really cool stuff out there and the scope for personalisation is huge, and you can get the quality if you are willing to pay for it (and you are willing to dismantle a fast-appreciating 964 - I couldn't bring myself to do it for years so had to wait until a half-fettled PS car came back into the market three years ago...).

[Slippydiff]

Inlet manifold is a GT3 item as I understand it, the engine now properly developed by Cosworth. Not 100% sure, but the front uprights look like 993 GT2 Evo items with additional mods to improve bumpsteer. This car has a set of Ohlins TTX dampers fitted too (about as good as they get).

More pictures for those that appreciate the oily bits :















Interior :







More images here :

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/06/where-dreams-c...

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/06/when-less-meet...

Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 17th October 17:56

[keep it lit]

Slippydiff said:

Inlet manifold is a GT3 item as I understand it, the engine now properly developed by Cosworth. Not 100% sure, but the front uprights look like 993 GT2 Evo items with additional mods to improve bumpsteer. This car has a set of Ohlins TTX dampers fitted too (about as good as they get).

More pictures for those that appreciate the oily bits :















Interior :







More images here :

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/06/where-dreams-c...

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/06/when-less-meet...

Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 17th October 17:56

yum !!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

They are simply stunning, apart from the quilted leather engine bay,which is plainly bonkers!

[Carl_Docklands]

drpep said:

I've been looking at these for a while but just can't resolve £250k for one. I'm sure they're absolutely sublime and it'd definitely be a 'money no object' car for me but in advance of that lottery windfall, I think that money buys you a lot of other exquisite motoring appliances; pork, and otherwise.

Pep - the £250k figure was the top end price with £125k being the bottom end. The example in evo had carbonfibre body panels...

[wildman0609]

i still haven't seen anything here that is totally unique or not able to be replicated. to me this is nothing more than a modified 911, just a good one.

[graemel]

They are one hell of a piece of kit aren't they. It is their attention to every little detail that costs the money. Whilst not impossible to re produce they have spent a massive amount of time and money on the development process to get it just right. Personally I don't think you would get anywhere near as good as, even throwing an awful lot of money at a project. You'd have a very nice 911 but it won't be a Singer.
I know what it cost me to build the SSE and although everything has either been replaced or rebuilt it still has a 240bhp 3.2 engine and non adjustable dampers. I'm guessing the big hp engine is £35K alone and the car would take in excess of a 1000 hours to build. In Chris Harris's Tuthill's 911 video a figure of a £150K was mentioned to replicate that rally car and you don't have to worry about the interior. I'm told by a very reliable source that to build a 65 race car properly you won't get much change from a £100K.
These special 911's aren't cheap you know

[GT Two]

Wonderful attention to detail with really top quality parts used but there is something too modern about them that makes them almost unpure in my mind.

Dont get me wrong I love it but there is something about them thats different to a restored and modified everyday 911 that you see. Perhaps like the modern retro Triumph motorbikes?

[graemel]

Interesting perspective Lee and I understand where you are coming from. They have no patina. Perhaps just too perfect. If you look at some of the Magnus Walker creations they are not perfect. Just one mans idea of what an old 911 should be but still retaining its early 911 character. Drilled door handles and fuel filler cap. But not done with millimetric precision. Built by a guy with passion but done by eye, heart and artistic temperament.
http://www.reelhouse.org/mos/urbanoutlaw/
Magnus's film, see what you make of it.

[edc]

http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/205/articles/...

Saw this linked on another site. Similar idea but nicer? I don't see a price mentioned but probably not dissimilar.