997.1 GT3 Engine Issues

[V8KSN]

Does anyone know of any 997.1 GT3 engine failures or have any of you any experience of issues with the GT3 engines?

I recently (in Feb) purchased a 997.1 C2S and though I do love the car I have always wanted a GT3

The car I am looking to buy is a 997.1 GT3 and I will be in a position to buy in March next year and between now and then, I am trying to gather as much information as I can.

Currently, my C2S costs me nothing but fuel and consumables and it's still under a 12 month warranty from RSJ so there is peace of mind I get with that in case anything major goes wrong.

I have covered over 10,000 miles since I bought the car in Feb and have been into France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland and Austria where the car has performed faultlessly and has bought many a smile to my face.

My concern is that GT3 may not be as kind to my wallet as the C2S and in order to mitigate that risk, I am trying to establish what I need to check or look out for when viewing potential cars.

When I was looking for a C2S this forum (and various magazine articles) had lots of information on IMS, RMS, potential problems etc etc but when searching for info on the GT3 I am struggling to find information.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a list of potential issues to look out for and checks to make?

So far, I have gathered the following from the GT Purely Porsche guide .....

• Ensure the clutch biting point is not high - if so the clutch may need replacing
• Check the brake discs for cracks - they tend to wear quite quickly - aftermarket Alcons is a plus
• Check front screws holding bells to discs - they can come loose
• Check for noisy front shocks - coil springs can cut into top mounts
• Check for oil leaks on cam chain housing

The above is a great starting point but there is not much there in relation to potential engine issues.....are there any to worry about?

I will be eternally grateful for your help (and so will my wallet)

[Old Trout]

I suspect that GT3 owners don't like to comment as it is a very small market and cars get tainted.

I would venture that RMS failure is a possibility, but not that common.

I would also recommend that for a 7.1 stick it on an OPC warranty which will give you total piece of mind.

[V8KSN]

Old Trout said:

I suspect that GT3 owners don't like to comment as it is a very small market and cars get tainted.

I would venture that RMS failure is a possibility, but not that common.

I would also recommend that for a 7.1 stick it on an OPC warranty which will give you total piece of mind.

Things like RMS and coil pack failure I can cope with (and plan for) but what I am trying to establish is if there has been any cases of issues like bore scoring or D-chunk failures etc. Are these failures limited to the 'standard' engines?

I will probably get a Porsche warranty on the car after 3 months of ownership but I don't like paying OPC prices for the car Currently, OPC cars are priced around £5k (minimum) more than private or specialist dealer prices.

I just want to step into GT3 ownership with my eyes wide open.

[mm450exc]

No issues - it's the Mezger!

[Sandy59]

I've had a gen 1 and now have a gen 2, not aware of any real issues with the actual engine. In fact I've always been under the impression these engines were renowned for not having any real problem areas.

[stefan1]

A well looked after GT3 engine is near as dammit bulletproof. You will always find the odd case of issues, but fundamentally these are the strongest water cooled engines Porsche makes. None of us here have the statistics to prove that statement, but those of us who are part of the track day scene will know that GT3s are a weapon of choice with good reason - they are ultra strong and reliable.

As ever, it is vital to buy on condition not mileage.

Cheers

[Geneve]

Quite a few RMS replacements.

[anonymous-user]

When my C2S had its first OPC service at 2 years, back in 2009 I was shown around the dealer's workshop.

At that time there were two 997 GT3s in, both with engines out, apparently with significant oil leak issues. I remember being told that one was regularly tracked, so the issues weren't unexpected.

Never heard of bore scoring etc. issues

[C2'S'man]

I had my old 997.1GT3 for over three years, 16k miles, a lot of them hard and it never ever missed a beat! Other than consumables, tyres, brakes etc I didn't have to replace anything, fabulous cars, if you take the plunge you will not be disappointed

I agree in buying a car with OPC warranty tho, simply for peace of mind, I doubt you will need it, but.....

g

[Pugley]

Its not the same engine as your C2S and hardly shares any of the same mechanical parts.

Its derived from a completely different engine block that has proven reliability over at least a decade.

The car itself is likely to suffer with all the same age and wear related items to your C2S such as rads, aircon, brakes, coil packs etc etc.

I have never seen any recurrent engine problems on the internet or through personal ownership.

If you find any - let us know!

[V8KSN]

Pugley said:

Its not the same engine as your C2S and hardly shares any of the same mechanical parts.

Its derived from a completely different engine block that has proven reliability over at least a decade.

The car itself is likely to suffer with all the same age and wear related items to your C2S such as rads, aircon, brakes, coil packs etc etc.

I have never seen any recurrent engine problems on the internet or through personal ownership.

If you find any - let us know!

Excellent! That is what I had hoped but I feared otherwise.

Thanks for your replies everyone

[spyderman8]

What about the glued-in water pipe issue? See this thread on the PCGB forum:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=730888

[MadMark911]

I did the same as you back in July and I haven't regretted the move, although I have had a ref niggles and the girlfriend would now rather I kept the "S" due to it's ride being more compliant than the GT3.... However, the first time you hear that engine sing to the limiter - you will be smitten!

I think there have been some issues with oil leaks, but I would have expected that by now all of these would have been fixed under warranty. The engine is renown to be the toughest in the game and will take many times the abuse of a standard unit without complaint, unless hugely over revved ("buzzed") on downchanges.

What they are known to consume is tyres, brakes and suspension parts as most have seen some hard driving or track work. So top mounts, coffin arms and dampers are viewed as "consumables"; although the parts and the labour prices to fix them are astronomical ....

Clutches do wear out and some are heavy, much heavier than the C2S. This can either be the "assister" spring wearing out or the clutch itself. The former being much cheaper than the latter.

MM.

[nxi20]

I personally know of one 997.1 GT3 engine failure where the conrod snapped & punched through the side of the block, effectively destroying the engine. It could have been rebuilt but the cost exceeded what Porsche wanted for an exchange engine (circa £14K + VAT, IIRC). The car wasn't in warranty & the owner bore the full cost. The engine showed no over-revs to account for the failure & had been (over) serviced regularly by the trackday-loving owner.

I've seen two other 997.1 GT3s that have expired catastrophically on track but have no information about the background on them.

[keep it lit]

nxi20 said:

I personally know of one 997.1 GT3 engine failure where the conrod snapped & punched through the side of the block, effectively destroying the engine. It could have been rebuilt but the cost exceeded what Porsche wanted for an exchange engine (circa £14K + VAT, IIRC). The car wasn't in warranty & the owner bore the full cost. The engine showed no over-revs to account for the failure & had been (over) serviced regularly by the trackday-loving owner.

I've seen two other 997.1 GT3s that have expired catastrophically on track but have no information about the background on them.

hi nick & op,

i also know this car & it's owner... also remember the incident on track. i too know of other similar stories relating to early 7.1 gt3's.

the problem is with the conrods i believe...

ade

[V8KSN]

keep it lit said:

nxi20 said:

I personally know of one 997.1 GT3 engine failure where the conrod snapped & punched through the side of the block, effectively destroying the engine. It could have been rebuilt but the cost exceeded what Porsche wanted for an exchange engine (circa £14K + VAT, IIRC). The car wasn't in warranty & the owner bore the full cost. The engine showed no over-revs to account for the failure & had been (over) serviced regularly by the trackday-loving owner.

I've seen two other 997.1 GT3s that have expired catastrophically on track but have no information about the background on them.

hi nick & op,

i also know this car & it's owner... also remember the incident on track. i too know of other similar stories relating to early 7.1 gt3's.

the problem is with the conrods i believe...

ade

Thanks Nick and Ade. Could you explain any further as to what the specific issue is? Is it a manufacturing issue? Is it preventable? Are there any tell-tale signs to look out for?

Thanks in advance

[RiccardoG]

As a 997 owner with an enternal mind towards the poetntial issues of the M97 engine and seeing the best solution as a 997.1 GT3, this is a very interesting thread. Thanks for posting.

[V8KSN]

RiccardoG said:

As a 997 owner with an enternal mind towards the poetntial issues of the M97 engine and seeing the best solution as a 997.1 GT3, this is a very interesting thread. Thanks for posting.

Ni worries RiccardoG

Even though I love my C2S and it has never let me down, the thought of it potentially requiring a large chunk of cash spending on it is detracting from the enjoyment somewhat.

I have always wanted a GT3 so if I can upgrade and not have the threat of engine issues weighing on my shoulders (and at the same time, limiting depreciation) then it's killing two birds with one stone

[Far Cough]

I think your post and what your are looking for is a prudent move. An OPC warranty is such a piece of mind when spending the big bucks as if anything goes wrong ( other than consumables ) you get it sorted. If it is that broken they will even pick it up and deliver you a hire car. I depends how risk averse you are ?

There was an excellent article on Rennlist I think about the technicalities of the leaking RMS and why it does it. Well worth a read if you can search it out. Might allay some fears

[RDMcG]

I have not heard of any psrticular engine issue with the 3.6 litre engine beyond fairly rare RMS stuff.
If you intend to track,the one thing to be aware of is that they can spray coolant suddenly unless you get the coolant pipe welded. This requires them to drop the enging but its a straightforward job.
Steel discs may show some cracking but its not a bid deal unless they are cracking vertically to join the holes. Virtually every car I have seen has minor cracks and mine showed up after a week at the Ring years ago and never got worse.
Overall, as others have said, the engine is bulletproof. Just as well as a replacement is eye wateringly expensive.
As with any car like this you need an impeccable service history.