997.2 GT3 RS oil leak and rebuild
Discussion
I have been in two minds about sharing this however I am intrigued as to what the PH massive think.
As you know I have had a GT3 RS for 18 months, one of the very last builds to come over to the UK.
Recently I was toying with swapping out to have less money tied up - but this was an academic exercise.
When my car was at the OPC they told me it was low on oil which is a first as in the first 5,000 miles it barely used any at all. One thing I had asked them to check was the amount of blue smoke on start up was worse than any 911/GT3 I have ever seen - terrible.
Anyway - they took it in for a check up and decided the RMS had failed and this would be replaced. Once this was done they then said there were further oil leaks from the cylinder head and the crank case bolts!!! Somewhat alarming. Having done this diagnosis they said that the engine needed to be rebuilt - something of a shock. And something I was adamant I would not agree to - my position being that the engine must be replaced as the car was still relatively new and the engine was a particularly special and valuable part of the car. They said they would discuss internally and get back to me.
The following day they left me a voicemail to say that there were no concerns and there was no rush to call them back as they had dropped the engine and started to strip it down for a rebuild as the parts had arrived from Germany!!!!!
To say I was livid does not capture that moment. I calmly called them and told them that I did not care what happened to the car as they were going to buy it from me and that my calm nature did not reflect my furious anger that they had stripped the engine without my permission. They believed they had permission on the basis the car was booked in to resolve an oil leak they had diagnosed.
Porsche insist that having the RS engine rebuilt in the local workshop would have no impact on value - and indeed they offered me a reasonable price - in my view it would make it unsaleable outside the network.
Anyway - all done now - did I overreact? What would you do?
As you know I have had a GT3 RS for 18 months, one of the very last builds to come over to the UK.
Recently I was toying with swapping out to have less money tied up - but this was an academic exercise.
When my car was at the OPC they told me it was low on oil which is a first as in the first 5,000 miles it barely used any at all. One thing I had asked them to check was the amount of blue smoke on start up was worse than any 911/GT3 I have ever seen - terrible.
Anyway - they took it in for a check up and decided the RMS had failed and this would be replaced. Once this was done they then said there were further oil leaks from the cylinder head and the crank case bolts!!! Somewhat alarming. Having done this diagnosis they said that the engine needed to be rebuilt - something of a shock. And something I was adamant I would not agree to - my position being that the engine must be replaced as the car was still relatively new and the engine was a particularly special and valuable part of the car. They said they would discuss internally and get back to me.
The following day they left me a voicemail to say that there were no concerns and there was no rush to call them back as they had dropped the engine and started to strip it down for a rebuild as the parts had arrived from Germany!!!!!
To say I was livid does not capture that moment. I calmly called them and told them that I did not care what happened to the car as they were going to buy it from me and that my calm nature did not reflect my furious anger that they had stripped the engine without my permission. They believed they had permission on the basis the car was booked in to resolve an oil leak they had diagnosed.
Porsche insist that having the RS engine rebuilt in the local workshop would have no impact on value - and indeed they offered me a reasonable price - in my view it would make it unsaleable outside the network.
Anyway - all done now - did I overreact? What would you do?
Jeez, I am livid just reading that! They stripped it without your authority?
They should have agreed the solution with you before starting the work in my view. OK, if that had to be the strip, then at least you would have had time to escalate it!
Of course, they probably knew you would!
They should have agreed the solution with you before starting the work in my view. OK, if that had to be the strip, then at least you would have had time to escalate it!
Of course, they probably knew you would!
Assuming it was all in warranty, I'm not entirely sure I would have been as alarmed or annoyed personally?
After all, they would have been underwriting the work going forward.
If having a new engine, built by the people in Germany was the "perfect" solution, then I suspect your car would never have developed the fault in the first place?
Anyhoo, you moved it on so all is well etc...
After all, they would have been underwriting the work going forward.
If having a new engine, built by the people in Germany was the "perfect" solution, then I suspect your car would never have developed the fault in the first place?
Anyhoo, you moved it on so all is well etc...
nsm3 said:
Assuming it was all in warranty, I'm not entirely sure I would have been as alarmed or annoyed personally?
After all, they would have been underwriting the work going forward.
If having a new engine, built by the people in Germany was the "perfect" solution, then I suspect your car would never have developed the fault in the first place?
Anyhoo, you moved it on so all is well etc...
Your logic is impeccable however the nub of this is not the quality of the work (clearly Germany did not do such a good job for a supposedly blueprint build), however would you buy a £90k car from an OPC knowing the engine had been rebuilt locally?After all, they would have been underwriting the work going forward.
If having a new engine, built by the people in Germany was the "perfect" solution, then I suspect your car would never have developed the fault in the first place?
Anyhoo, you moved it on so all is well etc...
The work was of course underwritten, but the value of the car was not.
If it was a vanilla 911 then I suspect I would not have cared one jot.
It's a normal mechanical engine that is built to a particular spec, no doubt specified in a manual somewhere, originally built by a regular trained mechanic on a production line. The engine is treated no differently to a regular run-of-the-mill 3.4/3.8. As long as Porsche underwrite the rebuild work and it is carried out by their trained mechanics, and apply their warranty, then that is all that really matters. If the engine blows up under normal operating conditions after their rebuild, then culpability is Porsche's and pointedly at those who did the rebuild. New engine under warranty. No big deal imho.
Doubt the parts had arrived the following day. What BS.
No overreaction IMO. I would've been furious too, but perhaps for the additional reason in that I wouldn't want my motor raped by people who I've never met or their credentials unknown to me. No one will care about your car as much as you.
Curious about the leaks. It's as if the block and heads have moved relative to one another, upsetting the gasket(s). Do you drive hard from cold or can recollect running the engine very hot for long periods??
No overreaction IMO. I would've been furious too, but perhaps for the additional reason in that I wouldn't want my motor raped by people who I've never met or their credentials unknown to me. No one will care about your car as much as you.
Curious about the leaks. It's as if the block and heads have moved relative to one another, upsetting the gasket(s). Do you drive hard from cold or can recollect running the engine very hot for long periods??
The diagnosis was a build issue - when they opened it up there was barely any sealant between the block halves. Tricky with boxer engines as I know from my experience with Subaru builds - too little leaks like buggery, too much kills the engine by causing oilway blockages.
I do find it difficult to believe that the sealant was not applied in pre-measured quantities.
I do find it difficult to believe that the sealant was not applied in pre-measured quantities.
Old Trout said:
spareparts said:
No big deal imho.
Bottom line - would you buy an RS for £90k plus that had a locally rebuilt engine? (Obviously assuming you were in the market).I agree with you going Ape!
Old Trout said:
spareparts said:
No big deal imho.
Bottom line - would you buy an RS for £90k plus that had a locally rebuilt engine? (Obviously assuming you were in the market).I wouldn't have bought it if had suffered the issues yours had, then rebuilt locally.
However, I never asked if the engine had been rebuilt...................
I assume(incorrectly) that the engines on these things are bulletproof.
Sorry to hear that, kind of a sudden end to ownership! I remember when u first picked her up. I. Had one exactly the same but with the red cage, think yours was black wasn't it? Mine was one of the first uk cars, June 2010. Mine also smoked really really badly but was told they all do this. Stepped out out of mine in March to free up capital tied up as well. Have a Ferrari 355 Spider, certainly a different motor to the RS! How u finding the 991? Was thinking of stepping into one in about 6 months, or maybe a late 997 Turbo S.
SimonRS said:
However, I never asked if the engine had been rebuilt...................
I assume(incorrectly) that the engines on these things are bulletproof.
I think this is why the OPC felt it would not impact value - OPC customers are less likely to ask - trusting the car was fine if sold by Porsche.I assume(incorrectly) that the engines on these things are bulletproof.
Old Trout said:
SimonRS said:
However, I never asked if the engine had been rebuilt...................
I assume(incorrectly) that the engines on these things are bulletproof.
I think this is why the OPC felt it would not impact value - OPC customers are less likely to ask - trusting the car was fine if sold by Porsche.I assume(incorrectly) that the engines on these things are bulletproof.
When they built that 3.8 engine it was bench tested for a simulated 3000 miles at constant 8500. They stripped it down and it was faultless
There is a silver lining to this story. You're going to have a warranted engine that you're going to be a bit suspicious about. You'll need to thoroughly 'test' it during that warranty period to ensure all's well. Could be fun
strange one, i suppose the sad truth is that rebuild or replacement engine, either will have a negative impact on the value car in the eyes of most buyes/dealers.
funnily enough if GT3's in 30-40 years time are valued like early 911's are now the fact that the engine had been rebuilt at 5k would be of no significance to a buyer, whereas if the engine had been replaced and thus the car was not 'matching numbers' then the car would be worth well below market value !
anyway bad luck old chap, i remember you took delivery of yours at the same time as mine (march 2011) - i sold mine back to the supplying dealer in september, pm me if you want to know what they paid for it.
funnily enough if GT3's in 30-40 years time are valued like early 911's are now the fact that the engine had been rebuilt at 5k would be of no significance to a buyer, whereas if the engine had been replaced and thus the car was not 'matching numbers' then the car would be worth well below market value !
anyway bad luck old chap, i remember you took delivery of yours at the same time as mine (march 2011) - i sold mine back to the supplying dealer in september, pm me if you want to know what they paid for it.
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