micro stone chips everywhere including windscreen
Discussion
I viewed a 2005 997 C2S, everything about the car (mechanicals, condition, test drive, etc) was close enough to perfect, and the paint had an amazing shine, until after spending some time around it (a few minutes), i noticed the micro scratches on the paint, like very small spots everywhere, from i guess stone chips, including the windscreen, which has plenty of them. they are like micro spots all over the car, on the roof and even unless I imagined it, around the rear wing area :S the owner says he had it polished and it does look amazing unless you look closely. I suspect it's from high speed driving on german highways (car is german, as that is where I am). As for real stone chips, there are 3 or 4 on the hood (the spots that go through the paint) which don't disturb me, and one that has caused a very small crack on the windscreen.
it's a real shame, is there any solution? is it considered part of the ownership somehow? the owner says they'll be back if i had the car painted now. the paint otherwise seemed thick and healthy to me. the car ticks all the boxes. car is basalt black metallic, 55kmiles.
Thanks
Mike
it's a real shame, is there any solution? is it considered part of the ownership somehow? the owner says they'll be back if i had the car painted now. the paint otherwise seemed thick and healthy to me. the car ticks all the boxes. car is basalt black metallic, 55kmiles.
Thanks
Mike
Mike.Blueberry said:
I viewed a 2005 997 C2S, everything about the car (mechanicals, condition, test drive, etc) was close enough to perfect, and the paint had an amazing shine, until after spending some time around it (a few minutes), i noticed the micro scratches on the paint, like very small spots everywhere, from i guess stone chips, including the windscreen, which has plenty of them. they are like micro spots all over the car, on the roof and even unless I imagined it, around the rear wing area :S the owner says he had it polished and it does look amazing unless you look closely. I suspect it's from high speed driving on german highways (car is german, as that is where I am). As for real stone chips, there are 3 or 4 on the hood (the spots that go through the paint) which don't disturb me, and one that has caused a very small crack on the windscreen.
it's a real shame, is there any solution? is it considered part of the ownership somehow? the owner says they'll be back if i had the car painted now. the paint otherwise seemed thick and healthy to me. the car ticks all the boxes. car is basalt black metallic, 55kmiles.
Thanks
Mike
I'm confused. The real stone chips on the hood which you mention go through the paint do not disturb you but you then say it is a real shame and is there any solution?it's a real shame, is there any solution? is it considered part of the ownership somehow? the owner says they'll be back if i had the car painted now. the paint otherwise seemed thick and healthy to me. the car ticks all the boxes. car is basalt black metallic, 55kmiles.
Thanks
Mike
Rock/gravel/even blowing sand can degrade the paint and the windshield.
There is the unrealistic solution of not driving the car. (I hear things hitting the car even the windscreen once in awhile and almost always this occurs when I least expect it so just thinking one can avoid these by staying off gravel roads (which I never ever drive on anyway), and what have you is just not going to work.)
The front of the car, the bumper cover, the hood, front fenders can be covered by a clear plastic film, a clear "bra" that works wonders to keep any paint damage from happening. To me this film looks unsightly and I have never elected to have any of my car so treated.
As for the the glass... I know of nothing that can protect the windshield.
If one drives a car enough at some point it will have to be replaced. I've replaced the windshield in my Boxster once and it is due to be replaced again. The pits are really bad.
Roughly I get around 125K miles from a windsheild before it gets so pitted (this time) or gets so pitted and develops (like last time) a horrific crack from a small chip in the glass that spread across the width of the glass and right at eye height too boot.
The Turbo's windshield with over 100K miles on the odometer is showing lots of pits and a couple of small chips that so far have not spread. I expect in the next 10K to 20K miles I'll have to have this replaced simply because the pits compromise night time vision.
Do not mention the headlights and how pitted they get. Had to replace one on the Boxster -- accident repair (not my fault the accident!) and the difference between the original headlight and the new one is like night and day. The old one is dull, pitted, and yellow/discolored while the new/replacement headlight is bright, clear, just like, well, new.
The light output from these two headlights is of a different color even though both headlights have the same type and age of bulb installed.
New headlights (Turbo's price in at around $1800/each!) are expensive so I'll replace these only when I have to. Oh, the techs tell me that these can be polished and made to look nearly like new again. The problem is at least with the Boxster headlight is the inner clear portion is discolored which may not lend itself to being polished.
Rockster said:
I'm confused. The real stone chips on the hood which you mention go through the paint do not disturb you but you then say it is a real shame and is there any solution?
Rock/gravel/even blowing sand can degrade the paint and the windshield.
There is the unrealistic solution of not driving the car. (I hear things hitting the car even the windscreen once in awhile and almost always this occurs when I least expect it so just thinking one can avoid these by staying off gravel roads (which I never ever drive on anyway), and what have you is just not going to work.)
The front of the car, the bumper cover, the hood, front fenders can be covered by a clear plastic film, a clear "bra" that works wonders to keep any paint damage from happening. To me this film looks unsightly and I have never elected to have any of my car so treated.
As for the the glass... I know of nothing that can protect the windshield.
If one drives a car enough at some point it will have to be replaced. I've replaced the windshield in my Boxster once and it is due to be replaced again. The pits are really bad.
Roughly I get around 125K miles from a windsheild before it gets so pitted (this time) or gets so pitted and develops (like last time) a horrific crack from a small chip in the glass that spread across the width of the glass and right at eye height too boot.
The Turbo's windshield with over 100K miles on the odometer is showing lots of pits and a couple of small chips that so far have not spread. I expect in the next 10K to 20K miles I'll have to have this replaced simply because the pits compromise night time vision.
Do not mention the headlights and how pitted they get. Had to replace one on the Boxster -- accident repair (not my fault the accident!) and the difference between the original headlight and the new one is like night and day. The old one is dull, pitted, and yellow/discolored while the new/replacement headlight is bright, clear, just like, well, new.
The light output from these two headlights is of a different color even though both headlights have the same type and age of bulb installed.
New headlights (Turbo's price in at around $1800/each!) are expensive so I'll replace these only when I have to. Oh, the techs tell me that these can be polished and made to look nearly like new again. The problem is at least with the Boxster headlight is the inner clear portion is discolored which may not lend itself to being polished.
Thanks!Rock/gravel/even blowing sand can degrade the paint and the windshield.
There is the unrealistic solution of not driving the car. (I hear things hitting the car even the windscreen once in awhile and almost always this occurs when I least expect it so just thinking one can avoid these by staying off gravel roads (which I never ever drive on anyway), and what have you is just not going to work.)
The front of the car, the bumper cover, the hood, front fenders can be covered by a clear plastic film, a clear "bra" that works wonders to keep any paint damage from happening. To me this film looks unsightly and I have never elected to have any of my car so treated.
As for the the glass... I know of nothing that can protect the windshield.
If one drives a car enough at some point it will have to be replaced. I've replaced the windshield in my Boxster once and it is due to be replaced again. The pits are really bad.
Roughly I get around 125K miles from a windsheild before it gets so pitted (this time) or gets so pitted and develops (like last time) a horrific crack from a small chip in the glass that spread across the width of the glass and right at eye height too boot.
The Turbo's windshield with over 100K miles on the odometer is showing lots of pits and a couple of small chips that so far have not spread. I expect in the next 10K to 20K miles I'll have to have this replaced simply because the pits compromise night time vision.
Do not mention the headlights and how pitted they get. Had to replace one on the Boxster -- accident repair (not my fault the accident!) and the difference between the original headlight and the new one is like night and day. The old one is dull, pitted, and yellow/discolored while the new/replacement headlight is bright, clear, just like, well, new.
The light output from these two headlights is of a different color even though both headlights have the same type and age of bulb installed.
New headlights (Turbo's price in at around $1800/each!) are expensive so I'll replace these only when I have to. Oh, the techs tell me that these can be polished and made to look nearly like new again. The problem is at least with the Boxster headlight is the inner clear portion is discolored which may not lend itself to being polished.
Well, the real paint chips are three spots on the hood, whereas everything else is all around the car. i haven't seen one with that mileage having that much. And the windscreen..
Is this a reason to walk away? I take it from your post, no.
My car is not a daily driver but when it comes out for a hoon it tends to be in a spirited fashion down country lanes and usually in company.
I had to replace the front screen before 60k miles with around 100 small chips from stone and gravel damage.
I have my front pu sprayed every year or two. The last time I had it sprayed I left it a month to settle and cure, sealed waxed, waxed again then went out on a half day hoon and counted 17 stone chips in the pu!!
It would appear to be part of ownership if you choose to enjoy the car.
I had to replace the front screen before 60k miles with around 100 small chips from stone and gravel damage.
I have my front pu sprayed every year or two. The last time I had it sprayed I left it a month to settle and cure, sealed waxed, waxed again then went out on a half day hoon and counted 17 stone chips in the pu!!
It would appear to be part of ownership if you choose to enjoy the car.
My view is that Porsche paint is brittle for some reason, it seems to stone chip more easily than other cars I've had (mainly BMWs), I do find tiny chips quite regularly.
It's a shame, very annoying but not the end of the world. However, the extent to which you describe is more than I would expect to be retailed through a dealer and I know a lot of cars have resprays as part of their prep, at least around the front, because of this.
It's a shame, very annoying but not the end of the world. However, the extent to which you describe is more than I would expect to be retailed through a dealer and I know a lot of cars have resprays as part of their prep, at least around the front, because of this.
csmith319 said:
However, the extent to which you describe is more than I would expect to be retailed through a dealer and I know a lot of cars have resprays as part of their prep, at least around the front, because of this.
The car is privatly sold. But exactly! it's a bit disappointing to look through a windscreen full of these dots and mini scratches, a turn off! The owner said he'd change the windscreen, but better that I do it in April when the small stones from snow/winter would have gone.As for repaint, there would be a need to repaint the roof too (there are a couple of places where I guess there was touch-up). i find that strange!
I wonder if that says someting about the car's condition itself, being driven at extreme speeds for very long.
Mike.Blueberry said:
The owner said he'd change the windscreen
This is good. But the guarantee will be with him. He sells the car and that's where it ends. Might be worth suggesting that you get it done once you've bought the car (if) and after you've agreed on cost of replacing the screen with your own preferred supplier. My guess is that he will simply pay the excess and have his insurer's preferred guys do the work. If say two years down the road you get an issue, it'll be for you to sort out.
drmark said:
Sounds like my race car - has it spent too much time up the back of other cars on a track? Or does he drive like a racing driver on the autobahn? Cross it off the list and find one with perfect paint and screen - its a buyer's market and there are plenty around.
he did say he was a racing driver and drove cup cars before. his previous car was a 964rs. he did drive it very quickly but with alot of mechanical sympathy (warming, slow down on bumps etc)...not many around except hours and hours away
As many have said. Buy a different car if you dont like all of the minor damage.
There are plenty around that have been cosseted all of their life.
Alternatively, buy it a bit cheaper, drive it in all conditions every day and dont worry about any additional marks it picks up.
Its the usual dilemma: Garage Queen Vs Daily driver
Its difficult to have it both ways!
There are plenty around that have been cosseted all of their life.
Alternatively, buy it a bit cheaper, drive it in all conditions every day and dont worry about any additional marks it picks up.
Its the usual dilemma: Garage Queen Vs Daily driver
Its difficult to have it both ways!
Might sound like a daft question, but are you sure the "micro-chips" aren't actually the result of fall-out?
If the car has been parked near a factory or a railway it could be covered in fine contamination which might be easily removed by claying or possibly a mild solvent.
This would explain why it's in unexpected locations, and why the real stone chips are much deeper.
If the car has been parked near a factory or a railway it could be covered in fine contamination which might be easily removed by claying or possibly a mild solvent.
This would explain why it's in unexpected locations, and why the real stone chips are much deeper.
bluesboy said:
Might sound like a daft question, but are you sure the "micro-chips" aren't actually the result of fall-out?
If the car has been parked near a factory or a railway it could be covered in fine contamination which might be easily removed by claying or possibly a mild solvent.
This would explain why it's in unexpected locations, and why the real stone chips are much deeper.
claying and/or mild solvant, can these do more than a polish? It seemed a thorough professional polishing that it was given.If the car has been parked near a factory or a railway it could be covered in fine contamination which might be easily removed by claying or possibly a mild solvent.
This would explain why it's in unexpected locations, and why the real stone chips are much deeper.
Mike.Blueberry said:
claying and/or mild solvant, can these do more than a polish? It seemed a thorough professional polishing that it was given.
The contamination will be bonded or even burnt into the surface (the latter if it's sparks from train brakes for example). Polish won't touch these issues as it's not abrasive - and abrasives such as T-Cut should not be used.Claying "grabs" contaminants and pulls it off the surface. The solvent to use depends on what the contaminant is and this is best determined under a microscope or from years of experience!
I'd try claying first.
Polishing would follow either remedial action.
Rockster said:
I'm confused. The real stone chips on the hood which you mention go through the paint do not disturb you but you then say it is a real shame and is there any solution?
Rock/gravel/even blowing sand can degrade the paint and the windshield.
There is the unrealistic solution of not driving the car. (I hear things hitting the car even the windscreen once in awhile and almost always this occurs when I least expect it so just thinking one can avoid these by staying off gravel roads (which I never ever drive on anyway), and what have you is just not going to work.)
The front of the car, the bumper cover, the hood, front fenders can be covered by a clear plastic film, a clear "bra" that works wonders to keep any paint damage from happening. To me this film looks unsightly and I have never elected to have any of my car so treated.
As for the the glass... I know of nothing that can protect the windshield.
If one drives a car enough at some point it will have to be replaced. I've replaced the windshield in my Boxster once and it is due to be replaced again. The pits are really bad.
Roughly I get around 125K miles from a windsheild before it gets so pitted (this time) or gets so pitted and develops (like last time) a horrific crack from a small chip in the glass that spread across the width of the glass and right at eye height too boot.
The Turbo's windshield with over 100K miles on the odometer is showing lots of pits and a couple of small chips that so far have not spread. I expect in the next 10K to 20K miles I'll have to have this replaced simply because the pits compromise night time vision.
Do not mention the headlights and how pitted they get. Had to replace one on the Boxster -- accident repair (not my fault the accident!) and the difference between the original headlight and the new one is like night and day. The old one is dull, pitted, and yellow/discolored while the new/replacement headlight is bright, clear, just like, well, new.
The light output from these two headlights is of a different color even though both headlights have the same type and age of bulb installed.
New headlights (Turbo's price in at around $1800/each!) are expensive so I'll replace these only when I have to. Oh, the techs tell me that these can be polished and made to look nearly like new again. The problem is at least with the Boxster headlight is the inner clear portion is discolored which may not lend itself to being polished.
Previous track days or continental driving...been there done that one heavy run down to le mans one year spent chasing a DB9 for way too many miles at high speed destroyed my silver 993 needed headlamps,front screen and front end painting!! Oh and got 400 euro fine for speeding now Im depressed Id forgot that bit.Rock/gravel/even blowing sand can degrade the paint and the windshield.
There is the unrealistic solution of not driving the car. (I hear things hitting the car even the windscreen once in awhile and almost always this occurs when I least expect it so just thinking one can avoid these by staying off gravel roads (which I never ever drive on anyway), and what have you is just not going to work.)
The front of the car, the bumper cover, the hood, front fenders can be covered by a clear plastic film, a clear "bra" that works wonders to keep any paint damage from happening. To me this film looks unsightly and I have never elected to have any of my car so treated.
As for the the glass... I know of nothing that can protect the windshield.
If one drives a car enough at some point it will have to be replaced. I've replaced the windshield in my Boxster once and it is due to be replaced again. The pits are really bad.
Roughly I get around 125K miles from a windsheild before it gets so pitted (this time) or gets so pitted and develops (like last time) a horrific crack from a small chip in the glass that spread across the width of the glass and right at eye height too boot.
The Turbo's windshield with over 100K miles on the odometer is showing lots of pits and a couple of small chips that so far have not spread. I expect in the next 10K to 20K miles I'll have to have this replaced simply because the pits compromise night time vision.
Do not mention the headlights and how pitted they get. Had to replace one on the Boxster -- accident repair (not my fault the accident!) and the difference between the original headlight and the new one is like night and day. The old one is dull, pitted, and yellow/discolored while the new/replacement headlight is bright, clear, just like, well, new.
The light output from these two headlights is of a different color even though both headlights have the same type and age of bulb installed.
New headlights (Turbo's price in at around $1800/each!) are expensive so I'll replace these only when I have to. Oh, the techs tell me that these can be polished and made to look nearly like new again. The problem is at least with the Boxster headlight is the inner clear portion is discolored which may not lend itself to being polished.
bluesboy said:
The contamination will be bonded or even burnt into the surface (the latter if it's sparks from train brakes for example). Polish won't touch these issues as it's not abrasive - and abrasives such as T-Cut should not be used.
Claying "grabs" contaminants and pulls it off the surface. The solvent to use depends on what the contaminant is and this is best determined under a microscope or from years of experience!
I'd try claying first.
Polishing would follow either remedial action.
A mild oxalic acid (available from chemist much more cheaply) mix applied to the bodywork removes industrial fall out such as iron dust from train stations etc easily with no manual effort at all,however its for professional use and if applied in direct sunlight etc can be problematic with streaking or marking rubber trims however its much preferable to concentrated truck wash etc used by some valeting companys which takes all the shine and polish from the paintwork (the eastern european type car washes use this material hence they are not reccomended Ive seen it so concentrated the colour out of the screen rubbers runs down the car!)Claying "grabs" contaminants and pulls it off the surface. The solvent to use depends on what the contaminant is and this is best determined under a microscope or from years of experience!
I'd try claying first.
Polishing would follow either remedial action.
Prof Beard said:
Whilst not a "solution", the rate of picking up chips etc can be reduced by leaving a bigger gap between your car and the one in front (bigger than "necessary"). This particularly applies to micro chips picked up at higher speeds.
This is something I try and do but unfortunately others see the gap as an opportunity to make progress. Gary11 said:
bluesboy said:
The contamination will be bonded or even burnt into the surface (the latter if it's sparks from train brakes for example). Polish won't touch these issues as it's not abrasive - and abrasives such as T-Cut should not be used.
Claying "grabs" contaminants and pulls it off the surface. The solvent to use depends on what the contaminant is and this is best determined under a microscope or from years of experience!
I'd try claying first.
Polishing would follow either remedial action.
A mild oxalic acid (available from chemist much more cheaply) mix applied to the bodywork removes industrial fall out such as iron dust from train stations etc easily with no manual effort at all,however its for professional use and if applied in direct sunlight etc can be problematic with streaking or marking rubber trims however its much preferable to concentrated truck wash etc used by some valeting companys which takes all the shine and polish from the paintwork (the eastern european type car washes use this material hence they are not reccomended Ive seen it so concentrated the colour out of the screen rubbers runs down the car!)Claying "grabs" contaminants and pulls it off the surface. The solvent to use depends on what the contaminant is and this is best determined under a microscope or from years of experience!
I'd try claying first.
Polishing would follow either remedial action.
Merry Christmas everyone!!
Mike
Edited by Mike.Blueberry on Tuesday 25th December 09:06
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